For Supports, Rank is a Joke ...

CarameI Frappe··7 votes·1,590 views

Got to Platinum 5 last season as a Support ... was a struggle, but I managed with the help of some friends and mostly playing champions around my comp's weaknesses. However when Solo Que came out (finally), I decided it would definitely be worth trying to prove myself. Won 8 games, lost 2 in placements but landed in Gold IV. I thought to myself, "WOOH! I'm already in Gold! Now it's time to climb-"

Nope.

It's only been a week or so, and I got demoted to Gold V and counting. If you look at my match history, my scores are actually pretty good (with a few games of me being bad but i'll get to those later). So what exactly is the deal? Well, look at this:

http://i.imgur.com/TExBPck.png

THIS. This is why people don't want to support- how does this determine your worth in League when someone else played horribly? I played really well, and did everything in my power but alas, because top fed- I was powerless to stop them from winning. While it's true that if someone feeds, no matter what your role is, your team will suffer. However, at least if I was a Mid laner I could go and kill the squishies or visit top to help my laner. If I was the Jungler, I could start ganking top or help my other lanes get fed. If I was Top or the ADC, I could push the lane and get ahead of my enemies.

But as a Support? I can't abandon my ADC unless I want him to get jumped ... I can't go top because bot lane is a long distance and even if I was constantly coming top to aid my laner, I lack the damage to really do a number on the enemy Top. I'm starting to think of rank as a joke because i'll always have to rely on my teammates to climb, not on my skills. No matter how well I kite, or heal, or sustain / protect my team, I can't actually do what it takes to carry the game. People hate how little income supports get, the fact your success relies on how well your lanes do, and if you get kills- your team suffers because they need it more. I'm not happy, even though Riot has given Supports better items / keystones to work with. But the role itself remains an issue and Autofill only hurts people more when they're forced into it (i'm ranting and i'm a Support Main... imagine how those people feel).

Too long; didn't read: Rank should feel like you earned the win. I feel that if you're a Support, you get punished regardless if you played well. You could always be there to save your ally, secure objectives, or do your absolute best but if your team is struggling, you can't really change that. Unless your team gets their act together, you are in it for the ride to fail. It doesn't reflect on my individual skills, but rather I have to pray my team is decent with no feeders in order for me to have a chance at climbing up the ladder. It make me consider being a Mid / Top / Jungle, least they can do something to hopefully turn things around.

All well, I might Rank Flex with friends. Call me getting carried, but playing with strangers is putting a huge strain on my LP ...

EDIT: Forgot to mention about my bad games. I admit, a very few of them I did badly myself in. We all have bad games, and I take responsibility for my bad plays. However i'd say 80% of the other games I lost, my score was because of how horrifically my team did and my sacrifices went in vain. But yes Supports can also be the reason why a team fails, just didn't include it to drive the point away from my message.

26 Comments

Shifue Draven3 votes

No worries man i get it i jungle and everything is the junglers fault and yeah when you have people playing stupidly in their lanes and failing by over pushing and getting destroyed and they know i could not help and said it's not my fault lol but it makes my role useless.This is why i did not climb last season so far it's why i am not clmbing this season.

Tentacle Advisor4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shifue Draven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-20T07:55:38.249+0000)

...when you have people playing stupidly in their lanes and failing by over pushing and getting destroyed...

I've been going into a bunch of Normals games, trying to learn/practice the Jungle role, and from my experience(s), I could not agree more with this point. No matter how much pressure I provide, my teammates still seem to feed. I once ganked bot lane and gave our adc a kill on the opposing adc (the opposing support was lucky enough to escape) and then I left because the fight left us all pretty low. Instead of backing, however, our adc decided to stay in lane to 'grab the last bit of creeps' and got killed by the enemy jungler no more than a few seconds later. This happened again, later in that same game, and my adc was still dumb enough to stay there.

Then there was another game where I was playing Rengar jungle. I always had the impression that assassin junglers needed some gold/items (item parts, even), before they started ganking. This being said, I went into that game with the plan to do just that. Little did I suspect that my teammates would be killed before I even barely finished clearing a side of my jungle. My bot lane Ashe and Thresh were killed by a Varus and Diana. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Shifue Draven2 votes

Exactly i mean i really love playing jungle for the difficulty and honestly there is a lot of people that play jungle but quite a few that are bad. I pride myself on being decent but the hard part should be being the lining up of the kill getting the right elements together. Not the fact of your team throwing you under the bus or overpushing stupidly.

Tentacle Advisor2 votes

I never ever assume myself anywhere above decent. However, that's more of a 'safety net' to keep myself from getting cocky. But, even still, there's no way that I should do as well as I do (on the rare occasion that I do well, that is) and still lose due to my teammates getting cocky. Honestly, that's the issue I see right there, people getting cocky.

Shifue Draven2 votes

Again hitting the nail on the head i mean sometime i will get cocky and diving for a person at half thinking since i pinged and my mates are right there we should have this just to die. I should know better then to trust them but i get games where i can so it's kinda a moot point. The only thing i can advise for jungling almost all last season is patience is key. Don't feed into their crap of screaming they needs ganks or even answer them. I only ping now or or let them know when i am readying for a gank or announcing a path so they dont over push when i am not there to cover them. The only other times i speak is to tell them if they need a gank they need to leash them in or quit over pushing.

Tentacle Advisor1 votes

I will keep all of this advice in mind for my future Jungling adventures.

Shifue Draven1 votes

Glad to be of help cheers :).

TheHypeGoku2 votes

You're peel is weak AF against their team. Jhin has no mobility. You picked the wrong champion. And just because you went 2/3/12 doesn't necessarily means you did well. Maybe you played so safe to a point where you tried not to die when it would have helped your team to have soaked up some damage and died. Also, if you want to carry you usually want to play a support that can either get you kills early or has so much peel that the enemy team is helpless to killing your ADC.

V002 votes

@OP

Fellow support main here, and I've recently come to feel the same way you describe in your opening post. It's a shame because I genuinely enjoy the role but I completely agree its very hard to carry from (at least in bronze and silver, cant speak beyond that) and have been debating abandoning the role when in ranked. I feel like the support role is basically an amplifier for what else is on the team. It doesn't do me any good to increase the volume of the music if the music being played is terrible.

Personally I don't care about how things show up on a stat sheet. I think most people who main support are probably not interested in the spotlight so looking good on a scoreboard is w/e. The problem in my eyes isn't with the nature of the role or the scoreboard, its the lack of exp and income. Bot lane being a duo lane is already sharing exp, plus you inevitably will miss out on some at some point while going to set up wards (or backing again to get more wards) which just puts us further behind. It's so hard to carry games when you are consistently 2 to 3 levels behind most of the people on the map. I can deal with the slightly lower income, but until they find a way to make bot laner's exp levels be more in line with everyone else on the map I feel like its going to continue to be a hard role to carry from.

I also feel like sightstone needs to be adjusted a bit. It's fine during the early-mid game, but once the map opens up I feel like 50% of the time I back its simply because I need more ward charges.

Quil Evrything1 votes

its true.. but its also true of any other lane, when all four other people on your team feed, really.

your complaints about "support" are really about the fact that you DIDNT PICK A SUPPORT CHAMP. Poppy is not a support champ. If you had even picked one of the aggressive mage-"support" champs, aka midlaners with stun, you could still have roamed mid like you were suggesting.

(hint: a "real support champ" is stil useful if you get behind in gold. Poppy is not such a champ)

But that still wont win you the game if top and jungler are feeding too.

Welcome to the Real Ranked. Riot hopes you enjoy your stay.

Shifue Draven3 votes

I have seen poppy support to a great degree in the past it's really no different then using melee heavy support like say braum for example.

Quil Evrything1 votes

no it is different. Becuase braum has an on-demand shield that can help him, AND adc walk away. PLUS an on-demand slow.

Same thing for taric/tam/leona.

Poppy has a quirky sometimes-shield. So not as good.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Poppy has a dash cancel. If the enemy has a leona and a lee sin for example you sit on your adcs face and time your e well and they can't be touched because they can't be reached. Combine that with her tackle and disengage ult and you can protect them fairly well. Poppy is a niche support against specific enemy picks but is situationally viable.

Quil Evrything1 votes

i agree.

in contrast, "real" supports are pretty much ALWAYS viable.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-20T07:48:08.243+0000)

its true.. but its also true of any other lane, when all four other people on your team feed, really.

your complaints about "support" are really about the fact that you DIDNT PICK A SUPPORT CHAMP. Poppy is not a support champ. If you had even picked one of the aggressive mage-"support" champs, aka midlaners with stun, you could still have roamed mid like you were suggesting.

(hint: a "real support champ" is stil useful if you get behind in gold. Poppy is not such a champ)

But that still wont win you the game if top and jungler are feeding too.

Welcome to the Real Ranked. Riot hopes you enjoy your stay.

While I respect your opinion, Poppy is an off-meta support. Sure there are better support champions, but Poppy brings a lot to the table. Tanky, can CC well when people are near the wall (did it several times and got Ahri fed) plus her ult ensures that ganks fall apart.

I get told this often that Poppy isn't a support. But she does the job, and then people don't say anything after. But if I do semi poorly, I get flamed for it. But I bet this happens to people who pick any champion that isn't played often, or played in a way that doesn't suit the meta.

Quil Evrything1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Caramel Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-12-20T07:53:35.326+0000)

While I respect your opinion, Poppy is an off-meta support. ...

I get told this often that Poppy isn't a support. But she does the job, and then people don't say anything after. But if I do semi poorly, I get flamed for it. But I bet this happens to people who pick any champion that isn't played often, or played in a way that doesn't suit the meta.

Yes exactly. because "the meta" isnt just a meaningless convention. It is the general understanding of What Actually Works Well In THe Current patch level.

SO if you pick something off-meta, and do badly.. you DESERVE TO BE FLAMED, for bringing down your team.

FYI, the reason poppy is bad support: Because she has to GO IN, to stun. Therefore, if she is behind in items, she may help; the adc get a kill, but she will probably die herself. That is a net LOSS for the team.

Contrariwise, good "meta" supports like karma,annie, brand, can stun and just safely walk away, reguardless of gold or level.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-20T19:27:05.892+0000)

...

Yes exactly. because "the meta" isnt just a meaningless convention. It is the general understanding of What Actually Works Well In THe Current patch level.

SO if you pick something off-meta, and do badly.. you DESERVE TO BE FLAMED, for bringing down your team.

FYI, the reason poppy is bad support: Because she has to GO IN, to stun. Therefore, if she is behind in items, she may help; the adc get a kill, but she will probably die herself. That is a net LOSS for the team.

Contrariwise, good "meta" supports like karma,annie, brand, can stun and just safely walk away, reguardless of gold or level.

... Wait what you just described is mostly tank supports in general like Leona Alistar ect. I don't understand, you say Poppy is a bad support but describe tank supports dying while mage supports are superior .... then you say I deserve to be flamed. Flaming people is a toxic thing and should not be encouraged, ever.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-20T19:27:05.892+0000)

...

Yes exactly. because "the meta" isnt just a meaningless convention. It is the general understanding of What Actually Works Well In THe Current patch level.

SO if you pick something off-meta, and do badly.. you DESERVE TO BE FLAMED, for bringing down your team.

FYI, the reason poppy is bad support: Because she has to GO IN, to stun. Therefore, if she is behind in items, she may help; the adc get a kill, but she will probably die herself. That is a net LOSS for the team.

Contrariwise, good "meta" supports like karma,annie, brand, can stun and just safely walk away, reguardless of gold or level.

Just because of you alone, I had to play another game as Poppy Support. Guess what?

http://i.imgur.com/qs8wUPp.png

Granted, this isn't me rubbing it in. This is me showing her usefulness as a support. Everytime Lee came to Q onto my ADC, I would W and stop him in his tracks. I would ensure to tank all of Jhin's bullets for my ADC. Whenever we did dragon, I was able to R away some of their team members (which Lee was always hit with) to ensure we secured the objective.

When Darius was about to Q my Yasuo, I pushed him away which allowed Yasuo to windwall, R him, then I did a short R to pop him up and slam my Q onto the Darius while giving my top laner item 3401 so the bleed didn't kill him. We ended up winning that trade and I was there for most of the objective taking (Our Talon was getting kills left and right by just catching them haha).

Notice the Morgana you claimed to be a better support. Look at her score then mines. Even though she is also useful and can do great, I was able to best her in lane with patience and timing, along with knowing how Morgana works. By saying Poppy is not a support or bad support is like saying Sion is not one either, but he's the top support in other regions. It's how you play them into the role that determines the worth.

Quil Evrything1 votes

You didnt disprove what I said. you got ahead.

I said poppy works if you get ahead. but if you get BEHIND, it doesnt work well.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=00000001000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-21T03:08:07.172+0000)

You didnt disprove what I said. you got ahead.

I said poppy works if you get ahead. but if you get BEHIND, it doesnt work well.

To be honest, Leona Alistar Blitzcrank Nami Sona Lulu Soraka , ect. also suffer when behind. Only a select few champions can manage without being team dependent (Braum Bard Brand , ect.) but even then most supports will suffer if their team is struggling. They can't hold out on their own therefore Poppy being behind doesn't make her bad as a Support but rather not as useful. She can still be useful during objections simply because of her R and the fact she can soak up some damage so her team can possibly come around.

Quil Evrything2 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Caramel Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-21T03:34:56.811+0000)

To be honest, Leona Alistar Blitzcrank Nami Sona Lulu Soraka , ect. also suffer when behind.

not true.

Every single one of those champs has something they can do from the back and still be useful. (AND SAFE!) blitzcrank: grab,knockup,runaway. nami/sona/lulu/soraka.. hopefully that is obvious leona: worst case, she can ult from the back safely, locking people down for a kill. Potentialy a LOT of people, winning a teamfight on all of them. Even alistar can at least focus on healing.

poppy? her ult just knocks people back a little bit.

So the weakest supports out of all the ones you mentioned, are leona and poppy, when they are behind. and out of the two, poppy is the weakest, because leona's ult can be used either to get kills, OR for peel purposes. Poppy only has peel, without going in for the suicide pin.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Edit: :0 nvm my browser bugged, I can read it now lol. I don't think poppy is a great support. She can be annoying, but unless she gets a stun off and the enemy dies, her peel is pretty much gone at that point

Zelorxon1 votes

LMFAO, i agree with what you're saying, but when you see someone pick shyvana after the rework nerf, he's an idiot, plain and simple, just dodge and lose those 3 lp instead of 30 minutes and more lp.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Too long.

bad arcade kitty1 votes

tldr: yet another guy, boosted in dynamic queue as a support realizes he is not that good as he thought

CarameI Frappe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzhNGOJJ,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-12-21T19:13:18.164+0000)

tldr: yet another guy, boosted in dynamic queue as a support realizes he is not that good as he thought

Heh, I have bad games. I know I am not the grestest- hell I have much to improve on. But despite this, why the hostility and toxicity man? You're better then that to bash people like this.

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