The new Thornmail is a testament to Riot's undying bias towards Marksmen

Jbels··6 votes·841 views

The item was reworked in the hopes of being able to mitigate ADC lifesteal, while also making the tank less attractive to swing at. It does neither of these, and here is why.

Thronmail's damge has been gutted. 100% gutted. 10% of your bonus armor plus 25 is NOTHING. What's the most armor you can even get? 300? 350? That's 60 damage per auto at the most. Okay, but an ADC auto can do upwards of 500 to 700 damage when crit is factor ed in. 15% (the old damage value applied to the attack's damage) of 700 is 105 damage per auto.

Here's the other problem. The Greivous wounds only matters when applied to the next autos after the first. So if this 700 damage auto is having let's say 35% life steal (Bloodthirster plus Death's dance), that means that they get healed for (if we assume you have 180 armor, which cuts all physical damage by 64%) 245 healing - 64% = 88.2. Now with Grevious Wounds, 40% of 88.2 = 52.92 total healing.

10% of 180 armor is 18, + 25 = 43 total damage from each auto. Thornmail not only mitigates nothing, but the ADC will eventually also get a last whisper item at some point, so by the time Thornmail FINALLY even just BEGINS to break even, ADCs will be healing for more due to all of the armor they ignore.

Thornmail is NOT worth the purchase unless the entire enemy team is AD.

At the end of they day, we should have been thankful for the old Thornmail

10 Comments

Eevee In A Jar2 votes

I don't know bro. For the most part, a lot of ADC's are played. In other roles, there are champs that are almost never played. Just consider that. Most ADC's aren't in a great state but they're not in a bad state either. It's just annoying to play ADC and they're making it more mechanics-intensive to be an ADC.

Azure Dancer2 votes

But now that it does have gw on its component item even, it makes it far more useful in a teamfight. Adc cant sustain off tank as much? Easier to blow up.

Jbels2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Dancer,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OpGxIcpn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-13T16:12:30.369+0000)

But now that it does have gw on its component item even, it makes it far more useful in a teamfight. Adc cant sustain off tank as much? Easier to blow up.

It lasts only if the adc keeps attacking the tank. Honestly there just isn't any room for it against a team that has good mixed damage, which sucks because it used to be a decent counterbuilt item against ad skirmishes

C9 Squeeky 2 votes

{quoted}

It lasts only if the adc keeps attacking the tank.

If the ADC isn't attacking the tank, then who is? That means the tank gets to live and be more disruptive in fights. You really think ADCs are going to space out their attacks so they attack < once per second? That would totally negate the incentive of even buying attack speed items if they stopped attacking just so GW doesn't affect their next auto attack.

SwiftKitten882 votes

{quoted}

If the ADC isn't attacking the tank, then who is? That means the tank gets to live and be more disruptive in fights. You really think ADCs are going to space out their attacks so they attack less than once per second? That would totally negate the incentive of even buying attack speed items.

not to mention item 3085 .. they don't really get a CHOICE.. if they tank is nearby.. they are GOING to hit it..

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

true!

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

If the ADC isn't attacking the tank, then who is? That means the tank gets to live and be more disruptive in fights. You really think ADCs are going to space out their attacks so they attack < once per second? That would totally negate the incentive of even buying attack speed items if they stopped attacking just so GW doesn't affect their next auto attack.

The problem is that the item itself is weaker than it was, and although the greivous wounds is a nice thought, it doesn't hurt the ADC at all. Like I said, you will only see this new Thornmail on all armor builds against all AD teams, and that took the item from being situational, to one situation

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

I respectfully disagree. If I can reduce the amount of life the ADC heals, that is as good as damaging them. You might even consider it true damage. Thorns is mitigated by MR, and ADCs can buy MR items like item 3139 . They won't buy it solely for the thorns damage but it reduces the amount of damage taken, even before the thornmail change. Lifesteal was able to counter thornmail, now thornmail counters lifesteal + all forms of sustain (Hp regen, healing from kits, etc.). If that is being applied continuously, it could be just as good if not better than magic damage.

I think the bonus HP is useful because that mitigates all forms of damage (even physical damage needs HP to complement the armor for eHP, especially if your kit gives you damage reduction %). The bonus HP also scales with max HP % kit ratios. Maybe not as well as other HP/armor items but at least it does now. I honestly don't think the item is that bad. Is it a good rush item? No. Maybe if you need the bramble vest.

BlueBilberry2 votes

I miss my old unreworked thornmail on my old unreworked Rammus. (Hurt by two reworks.)

Dygax372 votes

This is a serious problem. Before Vrs all AD comps if i got fed I had a great chance to try and carry my team, zone my enemies out of the fights, and be outright too scary to stop while splitting. While I do think thornmail gained some health, the fact remains that endgame as a tank I can't defeat carries anymore unless my team's assassins and mages are on point. If I dominate my lane and build 100% armor with 1-2 dps items like titanic because I am ahead of their midlaner as well, I do not expect to die to an adc for free because of 1 peel or shield spell from the support. That is currently about ALL they even need to stop me.

If i am playing shen occasionally even in games I am winning I cannot afford to dive the enemy adc with a full armor build. Whats up with that?

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