Mages Have A Problem.

Rainfall·Dec 11, 2017·30 votes·1,229 views

the problem is most of them barely scale with ap at all,instead they have high base damages on their abilities.After all the reductions on the ap avaiable in the game and the shorter games i barely get to see any mage stack enough ap to deal damage that makes damage dealt feel different . From my own speculations for a mage to get twice the damage he would deal with 0 ap he needs 300. That number takes too long to be achieved. Note: this threadis about mages in the midlane and not supports.

35 Comments

MrHaZeYoDec 11, 201716 votes

I agree, we need new AP items, and some buffs.

AirKingNeoDec 12, 20173 votes

only if morello isn't so broken, sure.

DivewingDec 12, 20174 votes

Morello can be not-broken when there are legitimately good AP items

AirKingNeoDec 12, 20172 votes

That doesn't even make sense as an argument. I'm saying if you buff other AP items, then Morello will need to be nerfed.

MrHaZeYoDec 12, 20171 votes

That's fair

DivewingDec 12, 20172 votes

Only provided the items are worth taking.

The issue isn't their stats, the issue is that that is all they are; stats.

Give mages itemisation that actually FORCES a choice between having morello and something else, and THEN morello can be not-broken.

Until then, it's one of the select few (literally 1-3 items) that are holding mages up at this point, and that's how it should stay otherwise.

WalkingInACircleDec 12, 20172 votes

And duskblade and ie nerfed too.

Void Baboon RFDec 11, 20178 votes

If you don't play yasuo fuck you loser - riot games

that's what riot games is saying to you

LordGeovanniDec 12, 20171 votes

While true thats more to people who play fighters or want tanks to have impact beyond cc bots not mages who get range cc and damage.

KhristophorosDec 11, 20176 votes

Why is that a problem?

DragonSheaDec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why is that a problem?

Cuz ADC's now scale far beyond them.

Mob PiruDec 11, 20174 votes

deathcap

Slythrin UmbreonDec 11, 201715 votes

If you can actually afford it, usually can't.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 11, 20175 votes

You can't afford it? I mean...you generally should be able to. Assuming you actually plan on it.

Tails9016Dec 12, 20174 votes

Ryze Yes I plan on it, after I get my item 3027 , my item 3003 , item 3157 item 3158 , and either item 3165 / item 3135 / item 3151 . All of these items have utility of some kind, combined with the lower price, makes them better early, which is all that matters at this point.

hoyohaiDec 12, 20173 votes

You forgot item 3042 DT is the best

LordGeovanniDec 12, 20171 votes

item 3157 should be a situational optional item but forget that cD_r_

Succubús GFDec 12, 20178 votes

Deathcap is actually such a sink hole, it is cost inefficient. Almost 4k for something that only provides raw stats, why pick that over liandries and void

LordGeovanniDec 12, 20172 votes

That is not you 'not being able to afford it'. thats you thinking that it doesnt have efficient stats which it does or you valueing other stats or passives which is okay thats a stategic decision but its not not being able to afford it at all.

junglerboy16Dec 12, 20175 votes

Honestly doesn't even matter, by the time you have enough AP for its multiplier to make a difference, you'd be better off getting a void staff or Liandry's because the enemy team will have enough MR/health where you need the penetration or burn damage more.

The issue isn't death cap itself, the issue is that currently there are almost no big AP stat items like there used to be. Currently, only deathcap has 120 AP (Seraph's can go higher but is a mess of an item for other reasons), there are a handful with 100 (all overpriced or gimped except for morellonomicon), and then a pile of 80 and under AP items.

Back when they first nerfed them this was fair because AP ratios were still far higher and AD items had also received nerfs (most top tier items were in the 60-70 AD range, unlike now with 70-80 being the norm), and it was a good step in the direction of curbing power creep.

Fast forward to now, and AD has been buffed repeatedly, while AP has only been nerfed further while MR has been buffed and ratios nerfed.

ThilmerDec 12, 20174 votes

Mages have the AP scales from season 3, but in season 3 anyone could get 1.000 AP and now you need a long game to reach 500 AP.

That's why AP damage sucks rigth now.

ChaddyFantomeDec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Mages have the AP scales from season 3, but in season 3 anyone could get 1.000 AP and now you need a long game to reach 500 AP.

That's why AP damage sucks rigth now.

But ot doesnt

skoccDec 11, 20172 votes

Mages at lest have some range and can stay safe behind and poke, but what about ap assassins , now they are fucked for all the reason you said. With the same amount of kills/assists/farm champs like Zed Talon Kayn are gonna snowball soo much faster and much more then Akali Leblanc Diana

MrHaZeYoDec 12, 20171 votes

I hate when people call Diana a assassin, she's not. Akali needs 1 item and she destroys everyone she looks at.

AP everything needs some love.

LordGeovanniDec 12, 20172 votes

No actually because unlike verus Zed Talon and Kayn . people cant afford to build magic resist early because then they enter midgame with no damage and no defense versus an adc that a game losing suicide sentence. Which is also the only reason why tanks do well top lane. So even if Akali Diana and Kassadin fall behind they are gonna scale into midgame to snowball anyway same with Leblanc but she can also stay safe and poke in lane

Dasdi96Dec 12, 20172 votes

Mages right now are a shell of their former selves. Back in season 4 we had 3 different 120 ap items as well as better other items. item 3027 used to stack up to 650 hp, 650 mana, and 80 ap for 2800 item 3116 had 500 hp and 80 ap for 2900 item 3089 was only 3300 but it had 5% less ap item 3174 was the premier mana sustain item before it got forced to be a support item item 3157 used to be 3200, but had 120 ap, 50 armour, and stasis only had 90s cd item 3100 used to be 3000 and has a 0.75 ap ratio Meanwhile adc have had way buffed itemization item 3031 used to cost 3800 but had 25% crit chance item 3094 didn't exist back then item 3085 used to be a pure on hit item with 70% as and no crit item 3046 used to cost 2800 and no damage reduction passive item 3087 used to cost 2500 and did way less damage item 3812 didn't exist item 3153 used to only have 5% current hp on hit but had 15% lifesteal

LordGeovanniDec 12, 20172 votes

item 3116 did not have 500 hp and 80ap the same time item 3027 had 80 ap and 650 hp. you picking each items best time and mashing them all together as if they were all options together. and context had 650 hp when item 3143 had 600 hp and 80 armor and it wasnt a top ap item at the same time. now is a top ap item while only losing 150 hp over all and lost 200 hp and 20 armor. Mage wise and how value scaled one item 3027 is better than 2 defensive items on a tank

DarkendofallDec 12, 20172 votes

I think making mages skill base damages most of their damage is fine. Mages are the damage dealers that scale more with level(and thus skill points) than with items, so most of their damage is tied up in their skills. If you want more item scaling, try an ad champ.

SB ArneemanDec 12, 20172 votes

Going item 3020 and item 3136 is very effective this preseason. I don't really feel like mages are dealing low damage, but the damage numbers overall are way too high though. The main problem is the itemization.

GripaAviaraDec 12, 20172 votes

I don't know what to say. That lux combo kills me with little items. Katarina 2 items and almost insta killed. Akali the same. I think the problem is with some mages more than the items

Funkin DunkinDec 12, 20172 votes

I honestly don't understand the problem. When I play with AP users I never seem to have a lack of damage, and that's even after losing all of those runes, specifically one page that gave me an additional 86 AP by lvl 18. However, that being said, I'm still popping out damage like it was candy. I dunno if maybe you guys aren't building in the correct order, or if you're not using the right Runes, but I don't think this is a problem.

PokladnicaZlaDec 12, 20171 votes

Which AP champions do you play again?

Funkin DunkinDec 12, 20171 votes

Ahri Diana Kayle Lux Lissandra Malphite Orianna Syndra Taliyah Teemo Veigar Zac Zoe

Meep ManDec 12, 20171 votes

I see a potential issue that the community might later have with such a change, and that is an increased reliance on items means more snowballing. Due to Mages not being particularly underpowered as a whole right now, this would likely be a neutral change that would cause them to rely more on items than their base kits, thus making them more reliant on gold and therefore more reliant on getting early kills to snowball.