I saw that leaked teaser. Where's her supportive spells? Where's giving allies invulnerability? Where's my original main? My guardian angel Kayle? [sg-soraka] Please, at least add a little more to her than just a slow if you're gonna get rid of her amazing previous kit.
hrooza dota 7 votesyou support your allies by killing your enemies.
killing your enemies lower their damage by about 100% in most cases, op as fuck CC.
xDogMeatx1 votesthen karthus and sion dances after death. doing autos/spells at you.
hrooza dota 1 votesjoke on you karthus is always banned and you can kill sion twice.
[slayer-jinx-wink]
Oleandervine5 votesThey had already stated that her invulnerability was a HUGE siphon of power from the rest of her kit and would be changed, and plus, we don't actually know that she can't use it on allies. We've only seen a staged preview teaser, so don't jump the gun and start catastrophizing until we actually see her kit.
GreenKnight1 votesShe's fucking dead.
And here come people who will try to convince you with "arguments" that she's much better now.
Edit: Told ya.
Oleandervine4 votesShe's fucking dead.
And here come people who will try to convince you with "arguments" that she's much better now.
I suppose you also listen only to music on vinyls, watch VHS exclusively, and claim the NES is on the worthwhile videogame console. Because your entire approach to this has been "CHANGE IS BAD! ANCIENT THINGS FROM 10 YEARS AGO NEED TO LIVE ON FOREVER!"
GreenKnight2 votesI suppose you also listen only to music on vinyls, watch VHS exclusively, and claim the NES is on the worthwhile videogame console. Because your entire approach to this has been "CHANGE IS BAD! ANCIENT THINGS FROM 10 YEARS AGO NEED TO LIVE ON FOREVER!"
CHANGE is fucking good. Removing things that work, and people still enjoy, is just simply dickish and it's a result of bad decisions.
And please, you are like 15th person who said that to me. It's getting old.
Oleandervine5 votesCHANGE is fucking good. Removing things that work, and people still enjoy, is just simply dickish and it's a result of bad decisions.
And please, you are like 15th person who said that to me. It's getting old.
If Kayle worked, she would be played more and her kit wouldn't be clunky. There are people that have made her work, just like there are people that make 20 year old cars still drive them from place to place despite falling apart on them. Kayle is functional, but she's only that. She really offers nothing that you can't get from playing someone like Twitch or Lulu, because her current form is just nothing but a bunch of mediocre spells clumped around her ultimate, with the clunkiest ranged mechanic in the game. So they're not removing something that worked, because you can make the claim that anything works on some level. They're updating something that's functional, and making it viable and more interesting to play.
GreenKnight1 votesIf Kayle worked, she would be played more and her kit wouldn't be clunky. There are people that have made her work, just like there are people that make 20 year old cars still drive them from place to place despite falling apart on them. Kayle is functional, but she's only that. She really offers nothing that you can't get from playing someone like Twitch or Lulu, because her current form is just nothing but a bunch of mediocre spells clumped around her ultimate, with the clunkiest ranged mechanic in the game. So they're not removing something that worked, because you can make the claim that anything works on some level. They're updating something that's functional, and making it viable and more interesting to play.
She's nothing like her old self, thus, it's a removal. NOT an update.
Oleandervine3 votesShe's nothing like her old self, thus, it's a removal. NOT an update.
This is where you're wrong, because as I saw it, she was doing pretty much exactly what she does currently. She was slowing someone she was beating to death, and evolved into a ranged monster as the game went on. I don't see how it's not exactly like Kayle currently is. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, Kayle''s current kit is nothing but mediocre, generic spells (aside from her E and R). Her Q and W are bland, forgettable, and there are numerous champions who have more interesting variants of her. So in essence, she's got nothing really notable outside of her E and R, because everything else is the most basic shit ever. Her R we see is preserved to a large extent, and her E's range mechanic is now tied to probably ranks in R, allowing her to evolve into a permanent ranged character as she ranks it up. So right there, she's already preserved her most iconic parts of her old kit. So she's now getting a new Q, W, and E to make her more interesting, and clearly one of them is a slow, so they are keeping that in her kit. So explain to me HOW exactly she is unlike her old self? You make all these claims, but you don't have a lot of support for them, and you're also defending one of the weakest kits in the game like it was something unique and stellar.
GreenKnight1 votesThis is where you're wrong, because as I saw it, she was doing pretty much exactly what she does currently. She was slowing someone she was beating to death, and evolved into a ranged monster as the game went on. I don't see how it's not exactly like Kayle currently is. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, Kayle''s current kit is nothing but mediocre, generic spells (aside from her E and R). Her Q and W are bland, forgettable, and there are numerous champions who have more interesting variants of her. So in essence, she's got nothing really notable outside of her E and R, because everything else is the most basic shit ever. Her R we see is preserved to a large extent, and her E's range mechanic is now tied to probably ranks in R, allowing her to evolve into a permanent ranged character as she ranks it up. So right there, she's already preserved her most iconic parts of her old kit. So she's now getting a new Q, W, and E to make her more interesting, and clearly one of them is a slow, so they are keeping that in her kit. So explain to me HOW exactly she is unlike her old self? You make all these claims, but you don't have a lot of support for them, and you're also defending one of the weakest kits in the game like it was something unique and stellar.
Explain to me why something one dimensional like Trynda is allowed to stay mostly the same?
Oleandervine3 votesExplain to me why something one dimensional like Trynda is allowed to stay mostly the same?
I can't, because Tryndamere IS ALSO one of the champions who is in need of a rework.
Ralanr1 votesHonestly I think the only reason he isn’t higher is that no one has any ideas to bring out his thematic.
His thematic sadly works for his kit, and thematic is important in champion design.
Oleandervine1 votesHonestly I think the only reason he isn’t higher is that no one has any ideas to bring out his thematic.
His thematic sadly works for his kit, and thematic is important in champion design.
Plus, he was visually updated in 2012, near Ashe and Annie's VU, so he's technically in a better state than others at least visually. There's also the matter that Tryndamere is the "avatar" hero of the CEO of Riot, so there's probably a lot of walking on eggshells when it comes to talks of VGUs for Tryndamere.
Ralanr1 votesConsidering how much Ryze gets changed, I don’t think there’s an eggshell issue when reworking a champion of higher ups at Riot.
Oleandervine1 votesConsidering how much Ryze gets changed, I don’t think there’s an eggshell issue when reworking a champion of higher ups at Riot.
Well, we also don't know how available the higher ups are when it comes to consultation. Like Tryndamere is THE #1 at Riot, so I can't imagine he's got the free time to discuss a VGU like other people do.
Ralanr1 votesI don’t think he’d be involved in the discussion. Especially since he’s in R&D now.
kingDeDeDarius1 votesCurrent Kaylee is stale and boring as can be. The new one actually looks enjoyable. I've played the old one enough to know she doesn't belong in the game anymore with an improvement like this one. Her core theme of ranged AP AA carry with slow and invulnerability uot are left intact. What's there to complain about except for people who are just looking for reasons to complain?
Oleandervine1 votesCurrent Kaylee is stale and boring as can be. The new one actually looks enjoyable. I've played the old one enough to know she doesn't belong in the game anymore with an improvement like this one. Her core theme of ranged AP AA carry with slow and invulnerability uot are left intact. What's there to complain about except for people who are just looking for reasons to complain?
I'm not complaining? I was explaining why current Kayle is generic and needed to be updated.
kingDeDeDarius1 votesKaylee doesn't even appear fundamentally changed. It's not like they erased her like they did old aatrox, or Yorick, she's improved. Maybe now more than .01% of players will actually enjoy her
DrCyanide2 votesKickstarter has quite a few reminders for people who think everything new is great and can't possibly go wrong.
Even if you narrow your focus to League, there have been quite a number of abysmal reworks to cause people to pause before praising a new rework.
Oleandervine3 votesKickstarter has quite a few reminders for people who think everything new is great and can't possibly go wrong.
Even if you narrow your focus to League, there have been quite a number of abysmal reworks to cause people to pause before praising a new rework.
There have been a few bad reworks, yes, but on the whole, the majority of the reworks have been major improvements. And even then, the "bad" ones are mainly matters of opinion (Galio, Swain), while others like Akali and Irelia just need more kit tuning to balance out.
DrCyanide1 votesAkali and Irelia are to the point where they have to remove features from their kit to get the champions in a balance-able state after over a year of failed balance attempts.
Ryze's rework didn't fix anything besides his model, with him constantly fluctuating between oppressive and useless.
We've got the questionable reworks of Shen, Galio, Swain, and Aatrox all of which managed to make people feel like they missed the mark with either gameplay or character personality.
Then there's bonus points for Kog'maw and LeBlanc's gameplay reverts and Rengar's Q revert.
Yes, you can say "X is better in Y's rework" in every case. But the concern comes when you're not sure if the sum of the parts really is better than what you had before. Bluray wasn't a big enough improvement over DVD to win over everyone, and by the time it started to pull ahead it was rendered obsolete by Streaming anyway.
Oleandervine1 votesAkali and Irelia are to the point where they have to remove features from their kit to get the champions in a balance-able state after over a year of failed balance attempts.
Ryze's rework didn't fix anything besides his model, with him constantly fluctuating between oppressive and useless.
We've got the questionable reworks of Shen, Galio, Swain, and Aatrox all of which managed to make people feel like they missed the mark with either gameplay or character personality.
Then there's bonus points for Kog'maw and LeBlanc's gameplay reverts and Rengar's Q revert.
Yes, you can say "X is better in Y's rework" in every case. But the concern comes when you're not sure if the sum of the parts really is better than what you had before. Bluray wasn't a big enough improvement over DVD to win over everyone, and by the time it started to pull ahead it was rendered obsolete by Streaming anyway.
I don't know that I'd consider Shen, Kog'Maw, and LeBlanc reworks. They were gameplay updates, but they didn't rebuild the characters from the ground up.
Ralanr1 votesNew? Kickstarter has a lot of nostalgia based projects that end up showcasing how things don’t age.
Remember Mighty Number 9?
DrCyanide1 votesThe game that everyone talked about like it was a new Mega Man game? Yeah, I remember the hype - and it was hype because it was a new version of an old thing they loved.
Ralanr1 votesCreated by the original creator and funded because of promises to recapture what made the original great.
It was a focus on Nostalgia. New things aren’t bad because they’re new. But wearing rose tinted glasses when looking to the past blinds us to the problems they hold.
kingDeDeDarius1 votesKaylee was already dead. She's supposed to counter champs like my main, Darius, but I'll tell ya right now, in her current state I dump in her most games. I'd even say her current version is so outdated and boring that she's basically hot trash. When's the last time you saw a Kaylee main? I can't think of even one. Out of a hundred games, I might see her once or twice. Maybe more in normals when she's on free rotation. You just automatically hate reworks. You were dead set against it before it was even revealed. It's kind of like Democrats automatically hate Trump, no matter what he says or does. Even if it's something both parties would agree is good if it were any other president.
Ralanr2 votesI think maybe you should cut out the political reference just to be safe.
l MrD l1 votesshe still has supportive stuff .... remember in the roadmap theyre preserving the supportive nature ... so heal or something will still say and ult is the same just now does AOE damage ... kinda like a self ulting liss ult but you can move
Sukishoo1 votesThey said they would be keeping some form of Healing/Shielding. We haven't even seen the full reveal yet, that was just a teaser and it's always hard to make out exactly what the spells do in those.
Agent Corgi1 votesWe don't know much about Kayles kit yet, although they did say she still has some supportive abilities & her Invulnerability is in her kit somewhere. We'll just have to wait & see.
Daddy ReTaric1 votesI actually like new Kayle. Old one was boring to play.
kingDeDeDarius1 votesHer previous kit really isn't amazing though :/. Sure she can carry, bit most games she just gets trashed or is some side factor, an afterthought. Besides, it's possible, maybe even likely, that we didn't see her entire kit or all the applications of her abilities