After the jungle nerf the AP junglers got hit even harder.
The jungler's AP option for their equivalent of Luden's even sucks because it doesn't even give you additional cooldown. I clear stupidly slow with the upgraded jungle item, then have to waste 1500-2000 gold on a 10% cooldown item and a mana crystal LOL
ChaosReyn6 votesYeah, of all the AP junglers, I'd have to say the two most consistent right now are probably Diana and Fiddlesticks. Diana has her passive which helps a lot, and Fid has some fun tricks (max E first, pull gromp and blue together, profit) to help him cut a few corners. Other than Diana though, the real pain is essentially giving up even the possibility of contesting early scuttlers because AD will kill you on sight assuming you even get there in time in the first place.
LegacyDAP14 votesPretty sure Eve and Elise clear faster than both of them.
ChaosReyn2 votesThey clear faster, but I feel they're less consistent
Elise is a very technical champion and Eve is very situational until she gets far into late game. You can easily shut both of them down. It's a bit harder to completely shut down a Fid or Diana, as both still can find that lucky break and profit with FAR less effort than the two you mentioned.
LegacyDAP2 votesLess consistent how? The other champions you mentioned are way more inconsistent when it comes to winning games if that's what you mean.
They're both more inconsistent at ganking and getting scuttles than Eve and Elise and it's way easier to shut them down because of it.
Jungle is mostly about being able to contest scuttle and gank potential.
I think in all departments Elise and Evelynn are more consistent.
ChaosReyn2 votesGuess it's just my bias, but Fid and Diana by far have the more consistent gank tools, and their damage is a lot easier to land than Eve or Elise.
Also, with Eve, if you go in and deal your damage, and your ally jerked it under tower, you've actually got pretty low kill potential. Most of her damage picks up in late game, and her early/mid really isn't all that great. With Elise, you have decent kill potential and even decent sustained damage, but if you miss your stun, you're left with using your E as a gapclose instead of an escape, and in the scenario of a gank, you're actually not all that strong in a 1v1 as long as your enemy knows to kill the spiders.
Having a Fid or Diana pop into your lane almost always forces summoners at the least, even if their laner is paying ZERO attention to the gank happening for them. Having an Elise or Eve pop up in your lane depends a lot on the situation - you can easily pop either of them if they're not being followed up on. I will give you that Elise is better at scuttle control, and that once Eve gets her stealth she can just walk out and smite steal it, but I would argue against their consistency in ganks.
HopeStartsWithU1 votesHow does Diana force out summs? She doesn't even have CC unless you flash on the enemy and press E. Nobody has time to wait for a gank post 6. Until then the game is most likely over for your laners. Fiddle has to get close for his CC and if the enemy warded well and positions out of your CC range you won't be able to reach them, let alone get a summoner out of them.
Nhika1 votesGuess it's just my bias, but Fid and Diana by far have the more consistent gank tools, and their damage is a lot easier to land than Eve or Elise.
Also, with Eve, if you go in and deal your damage, and your ally jerked it under tower, you've actually got pretty low kill potential. Most of her damage picks up in late game, and her early/mid really isn't all that great. With Elise, you have decent kill potential and even decent sustained damage, but if you miss your stun, you're left with using your E as a gapclose instead of an escape, and in the scenario of a gank, you're actually not all that strong in a 1v1 as long as your enemy knows to kill the spiders.
Having a Fid or Diana pop into your lane almost always forces summoners at the least, even if their laner is paying ZERO attention to the gank happening for them. Having an Elise or Eve pop up in your lane depends a lot on the situation - you can easily pop either of them if they're not being followed up on. I will give you that Elise is better at scuttle control, and that once Eve gets her stealth she can just walk out and smite steal it, but I would argue against their consistency in ganks.
First off. Diana has been a dead champ since she was released. By the time Eve starts ganking with ult her team has already fed enough.
Anu3isII1 votesNot dead, just in a middle lane because she is better there.
Beerstein1 votesGuess it's just my bias, but Fid and Diana by far have the more consistent gank tools, and their damage is a lot easier to land than Eve or Elise.
Also, with Eve, if you go in and deal your damage, and your ally jerked it under tower, you've actually got pretty low kill potential. Most of her damage picks up in late game, and her early/mid really isn't all that great. With Elise, you have decent kill potential and even decent sustained damage, but if you miss your stun, you're left with using your E as a gapclose instead of an escape, and in the scenario of a gank, you're actually not all that strong in a 1v1 as long as your enemy knows to kill the spiders.
Having a Fid or Diana pop into your lane almost always forces summoners at the least, even if their laner is paying ZERO attention to the gank happening for them. Having an Elise or Eve pop up in your lane depends a lot on the situation - you can easily pop either of them if they're not being followed up on. I will give you that Elise is better at scuttle control, and that once Eve gets her stealth she can just walk out and smite steal it, but I would argue against their consistency in ganks.
Wut, have you never played eve in your life? As long as you have ult up and land your W, you can 1 combo almost anyone unless you've fallen way behind. She even shreds tanks with the right build due to her W. She's one of the few assassins that (with the right build) can on occasion chose to target a tank over a carry next to them when others on her team are struggling with the tank.
The reason Eve is weak, particularly in lower MMR is your allies aren't as global objective minded, and she's super weak at killing global objectives without serious help. Add to that she is the worst lane pusher beside Sona, and in doing so makes herself vulnerable. At higher MMR she's fine.
In any case, she has 0 issues raking in kills unless you're really bad at her. The key is turning those kills into global objectives, and that's difficult at low MMR.
roughvan2 votesGuess it's just my bias, but Fid and Diana by far have the more consistent gank tools, and their damage is a lot easier to land than Eve or Elise.
Also, with Eve, if you go in and deal your damage, and your ally jerked it under tower, you've actually got pretty low kill potential. Most of her damage picks up in late game, and her early/mid really isn't all that great. With Elise, you have decent kill potential and even decent sustained damage, but if you miss your stun, you're left with using your E as a gapclose instead of an escape, and in the scenario of a gank, you're actually not all that strong in a 1v1 as long as your enemy knows to kill the spiders.
Having a Fid or Diana pop into your lane almost always forces summoners at the least, even if their laner is paying ZERO attention to the gank happening for them. Having an Elise or Eve pop up in your lane depends a lot on the situation - you can easily pop either of them if they're not being followed up on. I will give you that Elise is better at scuttle control, and that once Eve gets her stealth she can just walk out and smite steal it, but I would argue against their consistency in ganks.
Dude you have no idea what you are talking about.. The champions you think are good, they are actually terrible and can only be played in silver and gold games. Elise and Evelynn can be played in high elo with occasional Fiddlesticks depending on what enemies pick.
Fiddlesticks needs 6 to be of any use and meta is too heavily focused on ganking, if you need 6 every time for a good gank, you're pretty much better off picking another champion to play.
Elise is good because she is so strong in the early game and can contest easily for scuttle crabs, she has such good gank potential and can tower dive because of her repel.
Evelynn is good because of stealth and only pinks can see her, if she manages to scale it will be quite problematic for the enemy team, her ultimate allows her to tower dive first and get tower aggro and easily escape.
Diana is just not possible to play in the jungle, she needs ap to be good, as a jungler you have limited resources, you won't be able to get the items you'd get if you played mid with her. She is all about one-shotting carries, if she doesn't have enough ap, she can't one shot. She can't contest scuttle crabs and her clear is nothing special, she can't gank pre 6, good luck playing her in diamond in jungle.
Sucction2 votesThey clear faster, but I feel they're less consistent
Elise is a very technical champion and Eve is very situational until she gets far into late game. You can easily shut both of them down. It's a bit harder to completely shut down a Fid or Diana, as both still can find that lucky break and profit with FAR less effort than the two you mentioned.
I'd say Eve is like that too. 195% ap ratio on her Q is insane.
Succubús GF1 votesDiana jg sucks and eve jg is much more consistent and played at all ranks. Delete this xd
ChaosReyn1 votesI am entitled to my opinion. Delete yourself from this. >.>
Anu3isII1 votesI can see Fid being consistent, but Diana? She is as much of a snowballer as the other two. She offers only damage and if she gets behind she is doomed.
And the big difference between these pairs is that the Double-E can be aggressive in the Early Game and dictate the game while Fid and Diana need to farm til level 6 for having decent gank potential. Not to mention how easy it is to invade them for a jungler with a decent Early Game.
Double E are far more impactful and reliable from my point of view (and not so easy to shut down) while Fid and Diana rely on their teammates to help them or hold on by themselves. I can see your points, but I still find them too risky to consider them consistent.
Nhika5 votesTwo swords > AP jungler with jungle item completed.
SweedishGunner5 votesIt might be that other champs are clearing too fast. I remember a day when first clear nearly killed most junglers and they had to back after.
MrFawknSunshine4 votesi dont get why ap champs other then Fiddle dont take attack speed runes to help clear the jungle faster , like in your flex runes why not get attack speed to auto faster proc the passive of 
& 
faster? i remember back in the old days for ap junglers normally taking attack speed runes (tanks did this too) to help with 1st clears. it would work on nearly all junglers who arent AD
zecastar1 votesi dont get why ap champs other then Fiddle dont take attack speed runes to help clear the jungle faster , like in your flex runes why not get attack speed to auto faster proc the passive of
People used to do this all the time in previous seasons when jungle was harder to clear. Now, some still do but you obviously have to sacrifice some scaling and it makes ganks worse too.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesPeople used to do this all the time in previous seasons when jungle was harder to clear. Now, some still do but you obviously have to sacrifice some scaling and it makes ganks worse too.
9 ap from flex runes wont make your scaling worst
HopeStartsWithU1 votesBecause people say strategy is dead when they refuse to use strategy. AP junglers aren't that bad at clearing, ofc they are weak but nowhere near useless. People just don't want to adjust their full damage runes.
Beerstein1 votesi dont get why ap champs other then Fiddle dont take attack speed runes to help clear the jungle faster , like in your flex runes why not get attack speed to auto faster proc the passive of
Mostly because the CDR is super important, and their builds rarely naturally build into it (at least for the ones I play). If you want aspd route, Eve is a good choice for it on AP though. It's certainly not for everyone.
You really have to consider the jungler themselves and how to use them. Take anyone with AOE for example (like Amumu/Eve/fiddle E) you can use to stay at full HP through your clear which can give you an edge you wouldn't otherwise have on AD junglers. If you pop AOE on raptors, you can go into the river with full HP, or even active healing.
MrFawknSunshine1 votesMostly because the CDR is super important, and their builds rarely naturally build into it (at least for the ones I play). If you want aspd route, Eve is a good choice for it on AP though. It's certainly not for everyone.
You really have to consider the jungler themselves and how to use them. Take anyone with AOE for example (like Amumu/Eve/fiddle E) you can use
taking the attack speed flex rune wont change anything with the cdr over the cdr rune you are losing 1% cdr per lvl when you are already building cdr in your build anyways. it was a trade off that happen before prior to runes reforged. you cant have everything. there is always a trade off.
zecastar3 votesIt's not atrocious but perhaps it's slightly on the weak side. Keep in mind that Luden's costs a lot more than the jungle item so it's not a fair comparison.
AD junglers will almost always have an easier time because every single champion has to auto a lot during clearing. Even Eve autos a decent amount. Thus, AD is inherently more useful for that purpose and higher clear speed means more opportunity to invade, rotate fast, gank, take objectives etc.
Hemulen Magi2 votesAP junglers are mostly >50% winrate, and if the AP jungle item is buffed then that will encourage undesired AP junglers like Karthus. Sure, they're not as strong as top tier junglers, but the Conqueror junglers with 52+% winrate should get nerfed rather than buffing 50-51% winrate balanced AP junglers.
iiGazeii2 votesSolution: Auto attacks against monsters deal bonus magic damage equal to 60% of your AP when your AP is more than double your bonus AD (just like they do against turrets).
Boom. AP champs have jungle clear.
zecastar1 votesSolution: Auto attacks against monsters deal bonus magic damage equal to 60% of your AP when your AP is more than double your bonus AD (just like they do against turrets).
Boom. AP champs have jungle clear.
After Runic Echoes, the clear on the AP champions I play seems more or less fine. It's more that the components themselves are less useful for clearing than AD.
GodlyBane1 votesA lot of the top 15 Junglers and below are AP. I mean, AP junglers arent bad rn and wont be for a while
ORB1TS1 votes
is still good right now with clears
Beerstein1 votes
I'd say she's one of the best with clears mid-late game if not the best. She's painful early though, and that's when a lot of games can be decided which is why she's rarely played.
3 posts in a row but whatever...To wrap it up, AP junglers are a bit slower, a bit weaker, but playable. I think a big reason they became such a common complaint is simply because teams are picking AD mids (Zed/Yas) so much that it's forced junglers into playing AP junglers, and they've been in a very weak place, though currently not as bad as they used to be. The reality is people that don't want to play them are often forced to by mid AD players.
In short, yes, AD junglers tend to be in a much better place, and the reason people consider it a problem is that their mid laners are forcing them to pick AP junglers. Generally speaking, when you see an AP jungler, you'll notice the ONLY reason it was picked is that the rest of the players team is AD, not because they WANTED to pick it.
You may also notice if the JG is first pick, sometimes their team will be 100% AD.
Cevrad1 votesSo I would agree with this completely but AP Shyvana exists, and she is in a fine place with the item. The reason that APs are pretty bad right now in the jungle has literally nothing to do with that item, it has to do with their ability to duel the currently really early game focused efforts from Jungle. In which all of them aside from Elise have 0 and Elise is still a perfectly fine pick.
gdogwow1 votesI had an idea that would help ap junglers out where it is still giving you the AP, CDR, and mana that you need but with a worse version of a cinderhulk/bamis cinder buff that only works on jg camps.
This way you get everything you need from your ap jg item, you gain a little extra clear speed, you do not get any health from the item so tanks cannot abuse the item.
Just an idea tho and I am not even certain it would work but it would buff some AP junglers like Fiddlesticks, Elise, Nidalee, etc that wouldn't push them over the edge to being extremely broken.
Nhika1 votesI had an idea that would help ap junglers out where it is still giving you the AP, CDR, and mana that you need but with a worse version of a cinderhulk/bamis cinder buff that only works on jg camps.
This way you get everything you need from your ap jg item, you gain a little extra clear speed, you do not get any health from the item so tanks cannot abuse the item.
Just an idea tho and I am not even certain it would work but it would buff some AP junglers like Fiddlesticks, Elise, Nidalee, etc that wouldn't push them over the edge to being extremely broken.
Speaking of Bami's Cinder.. The jungle nerf made tanks unplayable too. Less jungle experience means squishier tanks.. that and the slow clear time.. and how much damage they take in the general clearing.
Bisaknosp1 votesonly ap jungle with fast clear speed is eve i'd say other ones are really meh compared to ad