Boards›Gameplay

Why is Kai'sa still broken? BLATANTLY OVER STAT

Nhika··32 votes·12,013 views

15% health damage passive. 129% AD scaling on Q. 150% AD on W (on top of annoying recall denys) 75% movement speed on E. (Literally FASTER than Sivir ULTIMATE (60% speed)) KEEP IN MIND THIS IS MINIMUM AND CAPS AT 100% bonus 200% AD scaling on ultimate shield.

Her attack range is on PAR with many other ADC's, yet she does MORE damage than the most short ranged ADC's. She's obviously faster than every other ADC, on top of gap closing and INVIS. Better at "short" trades. Better at "long term" trades. Better in the early game with her passive and Q (4 autos Q and passive, the support can breath on them)

Her skills take little to no mana to cast. And when she's oom she already has enough wave clear off of auto attacks (as with every ADC)

Oh the game went longer than 20 minutes? All abilities evolved. Nice.

bUT hER wInArAteS 49% You have idiots that ult into 5 people and troll, winrate means absolutely NOTHING in this game because of how bad players are. There are 9 unknown factors that we don't account for (troll picks, bad teams, rigged matchmaking, plat+ players are boosted)

PRO PLAY? It's ALWAYS KAI'SA vs VARUS (I WONDER WHY) With a favorable match up for Kai'sa cause Varus Q sucks and he has no mobility.

And the player with 442 games of Kaisa? DIAMOND lmao.

45 Comments

SuicidePlank28 votes

She has everything you would want for an ADC, like literally everything. Except a bit of range, but that doesn't really matter, once she gets strong. I think they just designed her to be always viable. ADC Items are shit? Go AP.

FireDrizzle14 votes

The adcs are in general now.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

Hell fucking no, almost no adc is on par with Kai'sa

but boards are going to upvote this

LordGeovanni2 votes

No Adc is on Par with Kai'Sa and no class is on par with adcs. they are not mutually exclusive

SuperLuigiLXIV12 votes

ADCs overperform in damage metas.

It's why we used to have tanks.

LTK KoRo12 votes

if adcs overperform in dmg meta it means they would be blatantly busted in tank meta. ADCs need nerfs

PB4UAME7 votes

They've needed nerfs, and the game to be restructuring so as to be separate from ADC balance/META such that the game might for once be free of its domination by RiTo'S chosen class. Instead, since Ashe's release melees have been designed and balanced against their interaction with ADCs, and ensuring that the ADCs (As the safe, ranged, hyper scaling class with the highest DPS and damage potentials, best sustain through lifesteal drain tanking which is now free and incorporated into specifically tailored runes for ADCs to not need to invest in lifesteal to draintank effortlessly for rightclicking with unmissable, undodgable BPS) are the ones with all the agency and play-making/play denying ability in these match ups-- unless the character in question happens to be an assassin ala Rengar Zed Fizz Kayn

Yets42406 votes

Yet continually they will whine over everyone else about how weak, undertuned, etc they are, despite warping every single meta, and the game itself around them and their flawed design.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Most marksmen are actually pretty terrible in true tank metas.

The only ones who were good last time were Kog, Varus, Twitch and Tristana, that leaves like......16? Marksmen who werent good.

This was before kai´sa was released though, she is good with tanks.

Z3Sleeper8 votes

The entire point of a tank meta is because either they 1) don't die or 2) kill the ADC reliably.

In the 1) case, this means the tank is unkillably defending his ADC, which means the ADC is doing perfectly fine.

Let's not act like this current meta sees any more variation in ADC picks than any other meta has. They are all homogeneous with several of them performing each other's niches.

Also remember every meta is centered around ADCs.

Tank meta? ADC's can't melt tanks/die to tanks. Assassin Meta? ADC's are dying to Assassins reliably. Support Meta? Supports making ADC's unkillable via insane buffs or peel. etc.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

In your case 1 the only way the tank can be unkillable is if the enemy side doesnt have a good anti tank marksman or if said marksman is too behind.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/adc

Last tank meta we had 4 viable champs in total pretty much, right now i´d argue there is kai´sa being overwhelmingly good but unlike say Caitlyn she doesnt kill the competition, rather there are at least 10 other picks perfectly viable.

Performing eachothers niches?

Draven Lucian Caitlyn early game dominance, weaker midgame and powerhouses late provided no tanks.

Ashe Sivir Jhin Utility&damage.

Kaisa Tristana Vayne TwitchXayah Weak-ish early but best choices for being self sufficient due to great self defence and scaling.

Varus KogMaw Kills anything around if not killed.

MissFortune The one who adds "wombo" to the combo, not nearly as great when there is no combo though.

These are basically how it goes down, and how it´s always been, when you talk overlap....its not much different from any other role?

All other lanes have picks focused on early dominion, the teamfight specialists and the scaling picks among others, one or several unique picks might exist as well.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Actually a tank meta is Adc's melting tanks but there being too much tanks for an adc to reliably melt before they engage. Every tank meta is built around protecting an adc not tanks being unkillable.

Sucction4 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4xRPNy0g,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-22T19:31:04.944+0000)

if adcs overperform in dmg meta it means they would be blatantly busted in tank meta. ADCs need nerfs

As soon as they're nerfed, adcs scream really, really loud though.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

As soon as they're nerfed, adcs scream really, really loud though.

No. Adc get pissed when one of 2 things happen.

  1. Their class becomes unplayable (see the original crit rework)
  2. When their position gets invaded by another class when they get hit with the nerf hammer if they dare to see play in another role (Irelia botlane, and Ezreal jungle as examples)
ApexInTheCircle2 votes

{quoted}

ADCs overperform in damage metas.

It's why we used to have tanks.

As someone who absolutely loves Cho'gath, tanks are not tanky anymore. WE build huge health pools and just attempt to outdamage the person we're fighting. It really really boggles my fucking mind that Riot thinks that the best way to fix tanks is to give them more damage.

SuperLuigiLXIV2 votes

Damage should be lowered across the board. I don't want to pop damage dealers--

--well, no, I do, but ONLY because right now that seems to be the only option.

But I would rather we go back to when people generally didn't die in half a second and you had to think about what you were doing and when.

Thefrostyviking6 votes

A passive that needs 5 hits or 3+W to activate.

Q that has fairly short range and hits anything and everything nearby, targets basically gotta be isolated for any good effect.

W is silly easy to dodge if she doesnt flash or get help to land it.

And really? Comparing Sivir´s R to kai´sa´s E?

Kai´sa´s E doesnt buff 4 other people, nor does it last as long, and her R shield doesnt block as much damage as Sivir E.

Evolving all abilities? Is actually not that impressive unless she has enough stats to make them hurt, either she builds AD and her Q+autos does damage or she´s AP and its her W+passive.

Furthermore,,,,,isnt this the new tear into muramana into AP build that lets you evolve everything? No bleeding wonder she doesnt run out of mana, she´ll have tear fueling her for days.

Same as anyone else building it, and she doesnt have impressive mana sustain before then unless not using abilities, same as any other ADC.

And post 6 for a Varus vs kai´sa its favorable for Varus, because marksmen hit by CC are boned as hell and his R has much more range than she does.

Nhika2 votes

{quoted}

A passive that needs 5 hits or 3+W to activate.

Q that has fairly short range and hits anything and everything nearby, targets basically gotta be isolated for any good effect.

W is silly easy to dodge if she doesnt flash or get help to land it.

And really? Comparing Sivir´s R to kai´sa´s E?

Kai´sa´s E doesnt buff 4 other people, nor does it last as long, and her R shield doesnt block as much damage as Sivir E.

Evolving all abilities? Is actually not that impressive unless she has enough stats to make them hurt, either she builds AD and her Q+autos does damage or she´s AP and its her W+passive.

Furthermore,,,,,isnt this the new tear into muramana into AP build that lets you evolve everything? No bleeding wonder she doesnt run out of mana, she´ll have tear fueling her for days.

Same as anyone else building it, and she doesnt have impressive mana sustain before then unless not using abilities, same as any other ADC.

And post 6 for a Varus vs kai´sa its favorable for Varus, because marksmen hit by CC are boned as hell and his R has much more range than she does.

The only time Kaisa will be hit by varus ult, is when he's about to die, randomly launches R and flash heals away.

The Sivir Kaisa comparison was there to further explain why she's so OVER STATTED. Btw, its 4 hits not 5. And allies that immobilize targets add a stack of it too. (Braum Vayne passives thrown together)

She literally has every single kit in the game. Press the attack synergy (burst with Q on top of weakened enemy) Lethal tempo synergy (again rageblade) Fleet footwork synergy (massive damage to make up for not having sustain) Doran shield start? No problem.

Most damage in the game? Yes.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Are we talking silver here?!

And for kai´sa´s passive, you need 4 attacks to stack it and a 5th to activate it.

CAUSTIC WOUNDS: Kai'Sa's basic attacks, Void Seeker Void Seeker, and nearby allies' Stun icon immobilizing effects mark enemies with Plasma for 4 seconds, stacking up to 4 times. Kai'Sa's attacks can then rupture enemies with 4 Plasma, consuming them to deal 15% (+ 2.5% per 100 AP) of the target's missing health magic damage, capped at 400 against monsters.'

And the sivir comparison? How is she overstated? They are damn different so why even bother comparing them?

All you succeed in gaining from this comparison is the fact that you´ve compared an apple to an orange, quite pointless indeed.

All marksmen can use press the attack if they want to, those who dont simply gain more from something else at all times.¨

Is Ashe broken? She can easily use all 3 keystones too, as can Tristana and Xayah.

Rageblade itself is broken, and then there is the issue of she actually being able to use every single stat on it.

....And which damn marksman has any sustain by default?

Everyone uses fleet footwork to help sustain or kite, stating the obvious well enough here...........hells it actually mandatory when the enemy side is rich on poke in lane.

And you cant use the doran´s shield start if you want that precious triple evolve you mentioned-

Most damage? LOL.

She does not pack anywhere near as much damage as a kog or a Vayne, or even a tristana possibly, and this on a consistent basis.

If talking short bursts then Twitch is the king of all, his R+hurricane in a critbuild+botrk+armor pen has no equal.

What she does, unlike Kog, is that she isnt reliant on 4 others coordinating perfectly to help her survive, nor is she quite as weak as Vayne/twitch early.

She is more flexible in her build than Tristana and can just go AP if she sees the enemy tank stack armor thus bypassing the worst period unlike say Tristana who at the same point would do minimal damage to the tank due to lacking AD/Crit and armor pen.....lifesteal too to not die.

She lacks utility compared to Ashe or Sivir but she got more damage to compensate.

She is literally the perfect mix of attributes more than anything, ontop of being quite free in her build paths.

She is never really too weak while scaling well enough, she isnt helpless if dived on post 6, and due to rageblade she can build to be good against both tanks and squishies as much as needed.

So yeah,......i seriously think she is more of a case of being everything a marksman player could want rather than OP.

Similarly how Orianna is called the perfect mage in the pro scene, having a perfect balance between damage, utility and safety for her position making her fit into basically any team as needed.

LegitBusinessman5 votes

She was intended to made as a 'vayne-esque risky pick'. Riots words.

Shes S tier. Has no downside. You can Q someone in isolation for half their health with a few damage items. Like not even a complete damage item. It's absurd.

SuperTopLFBottom4 votes

{quoted}

She was intended to made as a 'vayne-esque risky pick'. Riots words.

Shes S tier. Has no downside. You can Q someone in isolation for half their health with a few damage items. Like not even a complete damage item. It's absurd.

She is such a risky pick that she is picked 50% of the matches. lmao.

Sewer Side4 votes

Anyone unironically saying it’s an ADC meta had clearly not played the game recently.

It’s everything but an ADC meta rn

Hexs Fortune3 votes

There's a reason Kai'sa has always been popular in pro play.

Daddy Ants3 votes

Jinx is overstat.

LegitBusinessman1 votes

I have like 900K on Jinx over two accounts.

She is literally a useless piece of paper the first 15 minutes of the game.

BLIGHTBRINGER2 votes

Well at least some people are admitting that Varus isn't as great as some presume.

As for Kai'Sa, she's too rewarding. She scales way too fast compared to other Marksman (I legit just need a Stormrazor + Pickaxe and Beserkers for the Q and E evolve).

Sometimes the idea of Kai'Sa being everything that Varus was suppose to be crosses my mind but at the same time due to so many character defining changes i'm not really sure what he's suppose to be anymore (since he was the very first original Hybrid Marksman that we got in League, since he was released during the start of Season 2). Putting aside how strong she is, what I mean by that is that, Varus just doesn't really scale that well (you can't commit to a half AD and half AP build because your damage will fall off and it won't be high enough as others, so you're essentially forced to make a choice in what you will have fall off) as well as...

  • Most of his damage is heavily reduced by resistances or his own abilities do that (Q damage is reduced by 33% when hitting 5 targets, that's the highest own damage reducement in the game).

  • His W and R won't scale since you most likely won't buy any AP on him, and if you buy AP items your Q and E won't scale.

  • His combo is possibly the slowest in the game out of all Marksman, and most Marksman do what he offers better and Safer, the only exception maybe being is his R being the strongest thing about him (but that alone won't help you out if you can't follow up to do your combo).

I guess in the end of the day Varus IS the most balanced Hybrid champion.

Ackelope1 votes

varus offers aoe cc that really has the potential to change the tide of a fight entirely, as well as long range damage and powerful execute damage with the active portion of the W that was added a while back. I agree that he is probably the most awkward seemingly-hybrid champion in the game, since champions like ezreal/kai'sa have more dual scalings across multiple abilities, but I think one of the major reasons that varus doesn't see as much success as these other champions in any scene other than pro play is the complete and utter lack of mobility that he has. I'm not saying that we need to add mobility to varus, but I think that his lack of mobility combined with the fact that he has a utility ult and isn't a hypercarry means that he's immobile and can be caught out and killed extremely easily, and doesn't have the pop-off potential of someone like a jinx. He's powerful if he has a competent team playing around him and protecting him effectively, but he can feel really sad to play and ineffective if he doesn't. He's almost the Ryze of marksmen, although much less extreme.

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

varus offers aoe cc that really has the potential to change the tide of a fight entirely

It's true but not always, some people don't know how to play around Rooted Targets (which can still Auto Attack and use Abilities btw). His W Active with a 40 Second Cooldown is mediocre at best (mostly because his Q Channeling slows him by 20% on top of his already massive immobility missing/walking out of Q range or dodging is surprisingly easy).

but I think one of the major reasons that varus doesn't see as much success as these other champions in any scene other than pro play is the complete and utter lack of mobility that he has

Yeah I would say so too.

But even if he's considered that weaker Marksman, there is one advantage that comes from this. He's basically never banned and almost never picked, so I can play him when ever I feel like lol.

Btw thanks for your thoughts on this.

Jonesybones1 votes

she is a burst ADC. And not that big of a deal. Of course you have to be carefull when to trade with her But I have no problem shutting her down as long as my ADC doesn't make mistakes

hhaavviikk3 votes

{quoted}

she is a burst ADC. And not that big of a deal. Of course you have to be carefull when to trade with her But I have no problem shutting her down as long as my ADC doesn't make mistakes

every ADC is a burst ADC come late game so that doesn't mean anything

Jonesybones1 votes

No.... vayne is not a burst ADC, neither is jinx. burst means tons of dmg at one time or from one ability. Not from just autos. One of kaisais abilities is even a skill shot.

hhaavviikk2 votes

{quoted}

No.... vayne is not a burst ADC, neither is jinx. burst means tons of dmg at one time or from one ability. Not from just autos. One of kaisais abilities is even a skill shot.

late game every crit ADC is a burst ADC because they can deal upwards of 1600 damage in 1-2 seconds.

or from one ability? if it's just from one ability barely anyone applies, maybe veigar ult and even that is stretching it

KFCeytron1 votes

Kai'Sa is currently strong, but you make some weird comparisons, like her E to Sivir's ult. Sivir's ult lasts a lot longer, buffs all nearby allies, and doesn't prevent them from attacking or casting spells for the duration. Also, you didn't mention how Kai'Sa has no CC and extremely little team utility (vision on targets hit by W).

General Matty1 votes

Just a ridiculously overloaded kit overall. I'm so tired of champions like Irelia getting reworked into the monster she is now or champs like Kai'sa getting released being way too overloaded.

Cevrad1 votes

I couldn't tell you, there hasn't been a single patch since her release where she wasn't #1.

Minimac20001 votes

I used to absolutely hate kaisa too and ban her every game because I thought she was just a better vayne. Then I realized she has no cc whatsoever which makes her really reliant on getting peel and she loses almost every trade in lane fought in the minion wave because her q is most of her damage and it doesn't prioritize champions. After that it wasn't nearly as hard to lane against her. I'm just glad they nerfed her w so it doesn't do ludicrous base damage anymore. Yes her q does too much damage if you decided to fight outside the wave, and yes her late game is pretty strong but that's just the way it is

LordGeovanni1 votes

Kai'sa isnt even reliant on something that adcs get anyway like peel you can dart around with e spam because it has an innately low cooldown and its lowered with auto attacks.

The thigh guy1 votes

Squishy, immobile after engaging, no hard cc.

Litteraly all this champion does is damage. That’s why her damage is as high as it is.

Ahri Baka1 votes

Last time I posted something like that I going downvoted to hell

I wonder why Kai'sa has defenders , this champion has 50% pick rate

the best champion in the whole damn game along with Ezreal

At least Ezreal isn't a hyper carry like her

Of course she will have 49% winrate when her pickrate is insanely high

Poske1 votes

Kaisa / Kassadin IDK which but one of this 2 has to be the biggest winrate enhancer (When you win only because your champion is OP)

Nhika1 votes

bump

Hochelaga1 votes

Oh look, another overexagerated post on a supposed too OP champ.

ƒaté1 votes

quite ironic how i just got out of a game where a 5/9 kai'sa with just a manamune 1 shot me but i came across this post, but yea, she's way too broken, been overpowered for god knows how many patches, can literally build qss and zhonyas, which literally grant her immortality, she has stupid amounts of dps, plus an adc with insane burst damage, honestly what was riot thinking..

Crystalysk1 votes

Tristana rising again. Time to put league away until she goes back to trash tier. Same with Jinx and Kai'sa.

6prezi1 votes

Okay, but you have to consider how often she’s played. She is one of the most played champs, and her winrate is 49 percent. She’s supposed to be a very skill expressive champion, but her kit is extremely simple, while overloaded. Shes been given new skins and has received buffs because of it. She is riots new poster child, sort of like how yasuo was. I have yet to see a kai sa play that i was genuinely impressed by. traditional adcs have always been boring to me anyway.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Nhika

No one wants to jungle.
Gameplay73 comments
42
votes
Please buff tank junglers
Gameplay57 comments
35
votes
Is it me or ranks feel messed up this season, after the whole role ranked disaster?
Gameplay16 comments
26
votes
Bring back tanks, and fix the jungle.
Gameplay32 comments
25
votes
AP junglers STILL clear too slow.
Gameplay33 comments
18
votes
Just came out of a game, where I got auto-filled into an auto lose.
Gameplay3 comments
11
votes