Huge Teemo and AP Shaco Nerf

Pink Ward·Nov 14, 2015·28 votes·3,243 views

With the change to Oracle Lens it completely nerfs both Shaco and Teemo. Most Invisible champions have a better chance to get away from danger now due to the change, but it completely nerfs Shaco boxes and Teemo strooms. My suggestion would be to bring back the old Oracle lens as another trinket with its old effect, but keeping the current one to do it's current effects minus showing traps. I think people would still buy both just in different situations. A big dilemma people face at the moment is not having a slot for pinkwards in the late game for invisible champions like vayne, eve, shaco, rengar and are forced to only use aoe's to kill them or stop them. Bringing back the old Oracle lens will give people the choice of buying the new item for clearing wards in aoe's around them, showing champions in aoes around them without completely revealing them, or buying the old item for showing invisible champs and verus traps when needed. I am incredibly biased on this subject because it is a huge nerf to my playstlye, but I also think it's a reasonable change/addition.

33 Comments

Teemo or FeedmoNov 14, 20157 votes

upvoted for being a teemo thread!

teemo is love! teemo is life!

Shac NorrisNov 14, 20151 votes

Nice name lol

OperationDEEZ1Nov 14, 20155 votes

Well nobody likes or cares about Shaco or anyone who plays him.

Pink WardNov 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Well nobody likes or cares about Shaco or anyone who plays him.

Ouch

I Miss CannonNov 14, 20153 votes

tru dat

ayNigerianPrinceNov 14, 20152 votes

I love Shaclone.

Shac NorrisNov 14, 20151 votes

They usually start caring when you start 2 shotting them ;)

TurquoiseYoshiNov 14, 20152 votes

Shaco is fine.

Teemo, on the other hand, has gotten pretty much gutted with the Hurricane changes, so he might need a look.

SH AzykanNov 14, 20153 votes

why are you building hurricane on teemo? Build him for nuking with Q+AA, so much more fun (I could see it being fun with old hurricane and new guinsoo though)

Noam BraumskyNov 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

why are you building hurricane on teemo? Build him for nuking with Q+AA, so much more fun (I could see it being fun with old hurricane and new guinsoo though)

I like getting item 3153 into item 3115 item 3151 and item 3135 . It's confusing for the other laner and there aren't many champs who can out-duel you.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 14, 20151 votes

Old Hurricane used to give him some semblance of waveclear and some semblance of teamfighting, rather than pure dueling and skirmishing. It might be more fun to nuke, but Hurricane wins you games.

RisenDarkKnightNov 14, 20151 votes

Build rageblade on teemo. It's really good.

Ha Yuri ZahardNov 14, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Pink WardNov 14, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ha Yuri Zahard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ohxl09Ab,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-14T10:22:43.348+0000)

Riot should nerf the New Sweeper Lens, than bring back the old sweeper lens. Such as; -Making it's CD longer. -Duration Shorter. -Unable to sweep inside a bush while outside. -Making it cost gold, rather than being free. Not all of them at once, or else it'd be too weak.

Anyways, Shaco and Teemo mains, had to deal with Oracle's Elixir back in Season 1 and 2. However, after it was removed, it became harder for players to deal with Teemo and Shaco, allowing them to be easier to play. Even TSM had trouble facing Cloud 9, against Teemo shrooms, with 4 old Sweeper lens, and they lost because the old sweeper lens weren't enough to help them clear the shrooms. If Pro Players have trouble with the old items, who can expect Solo Q teams to do better?

I think, in my own opinion, this is a good idea by Riot, since it's weaker than Oracle's Elixir, but better than Old sweeper lenses.

I can completely agree with why you'd be against these changes, however, every main has to be nerfed someday.

I didn't find oracle elixir to be bad. The bad part about the new item is that it always disables the boxes or shrooms, even if they dont have sight of them. If they're in a bush or on the other side of the wall, etc they get disabled. With elixir they didn't get disabled. The fact that the lens completely makes them useless is the point I'm bringing up. There's no counterplay to it and if they buy it it just completely destroys the champions playstyle, especially since they can just walk through the shrooms or boxes to get to the champion. That's part of their escape and part of their strength and buying one item completely destroys that method of play.

GhiNov 14, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Pink WardNov 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I hate Shaco and Teemo. Built in flash / invis? Perma bush hiding and shrooms all over the map? Screw those. So to me it's a good thing they gave use those lens.

Well if you hate perma invs you shouldn't enjoy the fact that you can't see them without a pink ward anymore! The new trinket shows a silhouette of the champion but you can't click or target them for spells allowing for them to be much harder to kill!

OwltearsNov 14, 20151 votes

Finally a Teemo thread that I can upvote, and not feel like a dick about! I totally get what you mean, that stinking trinket makes Teemo useless when I played him.

runedaraNov 14, 20151 votes

I'm fine with less ap shacos. Don't think it's a very good build. As far as teemo they need to rework him he's in a bad spot now.

Shac NorrisNov 14, 20152 votes

As you can see, Pink Ward is a diamond player, which means he was able to get diamond while playing ap Shaco.

Shaclone was able to get N.4 Challenger while playing ad/ap Shaco.

Yeah, your opinion is wrong.

Penta PenguinNov 14, 20151 votes

I haven't played Teemo yet on the new patch but there has always been red sweepers to disable and kill shrooms

I"m not sure how this changes anything

RisenDarkKnightNov 14, 20151 votes

No it didn't use to disable them. It just revealed them so you could kill them. However, if they were in brush you often stepped on them anyway and still took damage/slow/reveal. Now they are harmless and you can walk up to hit them. Also the upgrade is now free and has a bigger aoe.

Penta PenguinNov 14, 20152 votes

Well I"m not sure if that's good or bad... I was getting countered pretty hard before but it means I have to start shrooming differently (enemies learn where you place shrooms so you just set up somewhere else and make them whiff the scanner)

And it seems like Yellow Trinkets are more important than ever, so team's can't afford to get too many Reds

I may have to start team-fight-oriented shrooming, where they engage on us or conteset a buff but all the shrooms are right on top of the battlefield instead of in chokepoints around the battlefield where they'll be spotted

BD WiltonNov 14, 20151 votes

Riot nerfs half my mains across the board while buffing Yas...really?

junglerboy16Nov 14, 20151 votes

It is healthier for there to be stronger counterplay against their traps than to have almost no counterplay.

This means that the traps can be buffed to be effective again without becoming oppressive, where before they were just annoying.

Shac NorrisNov 14, 20151 votes

Thank you for sharing my point of view, Pink Ward. As you can judge by my name, i actually main ap Shaco and actually care about anything that adds to Shaco's downsides

Finally someone who understand -.-... -- --

CoolKnightSTNov 14, 20151 votes

The one complains it's a nerf, the other one complains it's a buff. To make some things clear:

is a nerf towards stealth champions counterplay. It won't reveal them anymore so even if you see the red. This won't prevent them from killing you. This makes stealth champions stronger against it. This mostly effects the verry lategame when their is no room anymore for pink wards.
is a buff towards stealth champions counterplay. The cheaper pinks allows to counter these champions in the midgame

The changes have so their pros & coin effects. The changes are fine. Mostly because the champions you mention Shaco & Teemo are the ones that will get reworked add some point.

Penta PenguinNov 14, 20151 votes

I don't think much will change for Teemo. Possible W and E reworks, damage adjustment on Q depending on what happens with W and E, but Teemo is the last champion with Blind. His shrooms are fine

CoolKnightSTNov 15, 20151 votes

Riot already mentioned they wanted to remove blind compleetly from all champions. So his Q will probaly be reworked too add some point. Probaly a similar change what now is happening to Quin's Q on the PBE. I just really hope they change his Q so it aplies to his next auto attack. That would be a lot better in my opinion for his playstyle.

Now I have seen the new Quin I wouldn't be supprised riot want todo a similar thing for Teemo:

P: His current E
Q: Reduced vision effect, aplies to his next auto attack.
W: LIke old W but with more Utility: Maybe bounce off a shroom now
E: Shrooms (no longer give stealth)
R: Steath ultimate (maybe something like Quin), they could let effect his abilities while in stealth form:
- P: Grant attackspeed (old element of supprise) while he comes out of stealth
- W: Gains more movementspeed
- E: Shroom that he throws are stealth for the duration of his own stealth