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Adaptive Champions, and Why Shaco Should be the First.

Pink Ward·11/30/2017, 8:20:16 PM·409 votes·20,647 views

With the past few champions released, there has been a lack of champions who scale off of both AD and AP. This is most likely due to it being a balance issue, since you have to balance around both builds. Shaco is one of the few champions Riot has historically tried to keep effective whether he chooses to build AD or AP. Over the past year though Riot has started to stray away from keeping magic damage in his kit. The rework took away the 20% bonus damage that his passive had; This would increase the damage of both his boxes and his Shiv(E), increasing the damage on his E from 100% AP ratio to 120% AP ratio when hit from behind. Before the rework this was one of the biggest reasons AP Shaco was viable. The rework took most of the damage away from Shaco's E and put it onto his Q, which was later changed to his passive due to AP Shaco jungle being too strong post rework. Shaco's E was also changed recently from magic to physical. This was a nice buff to Ad Shaco, but took a lot of the magic damage away from AP Shaco's kit. Shaco is one of the many champions on the list to be given a full rework.

With the preseason starting, and adaptive being a big part of it, I propose that Shaco becomes one of the first champions to be given adaptive abilities. Both his passive and E should become adaptive. I think Shaco should be the first, since Riot has balanced him around the varied damage in his kit. This would allow for Riot to test how adaptive abilities function in the current meta. There are both pros and cons to giving champions adaptive abilities, so I don't think all champions should get them.

The biggest pro, would allow for more innovative builds. Champions like Tryndamere, for example, would have his E become adaptive. Ap Tryndamere was a fun way to play him before his Q's healing was reduced. He still has the ratio on his E, but It is a lacking build due to it not dealing magic damage while building magic items. For instance, You would have to get a last whisper instead of a void staff. Giving it adaptive damage would allow for his E to do the magic damage that he wants, allowing him to continue his magic damage build. This would also give the ability to diversify team comps when having a full AD or AP team. With this, there are cons to consider.

The biggest con, that I can see, would be that it's hard for opponents to itemize against the adaptive champion. Not knowing if they will be going AD or AP. A tank going into a matchup would see a Tryndamere, and instantly think armor items. He would start his build by rushing Ninja Tabi, and the Tryndamere would come back with a statik shiv. This would make you think he's still going Tryndamere's usual crit build. So the tank player continues building armor, his sunfire cape next, but Tryndamere comes back with a blasting wand. Now his E will be doing magic damage, causing the value in the armor, the tank player bought, to be reduced while in laning phase. If Trynd is able to build adaptively it is harder to itemize against him, but this also prevents him from becoming useless as the game goes on.

Giving champions adaptive abilities would give more flexibility to champions who have only one possible build path. It would add diversity to the roster of champions, increase flex picks, spicing up the competitive aspect of the game, and granting more usability to many of the 2 dimensional characters currently out there. As a champion, Shaco has been traditionally defined by the versatility in his build path, and exemplifies many of the characteristics I have stated thus far. This is why I feel Shaco should be the test subject for adaptive abilities.

tl;dr Some champions should get adaptive abilities. This would add competitive aspects to the game and open up build paths to diversify 2 dimensional characters. Could be hard to itemize against. Shaco should be the first since Riot has tried to balance around his AD and AP builds, but have hurt one while trying to fix the other..

199 Comments

Miko no Shaco11/30/2017, 8:29:49 PM78 votes

I do agree. I also miss the way tristana could go either way. Or like ezreal the last few remaining hybrid champions should definantly become adaptive to help thier kit

imabaddkid11/30/2017, 8:54:27 PM32 votes

I like this way of thinking and encourage making the game more player unique like the good old days instead of it being only one strict meta that wins and anything else you play is bad. Diversity is good cause it allows players to explore what they think is a cool and fun idea. Strict metas make the game stale and boring and thats why the past few season has been so bad compared to season 2-4

Bygatopan11/30/2017, 8:25:03 PM20 votes

Spanish Shaco approves this.Shaco summoner 14 item 3152

NEW M00N11/30/2017, 8:56:52 PM18 votes

That is a beautiful and thorough explanation without ranting. I would agree that Shaco would be an excellent first to become an adaptive scaling champion. The fact that it's hard enough to build against adaptive champions is believable that riot wouldn't imply dual scaling. If given the gameplay, I think adaptive champions would be very interesting to mix in. we already have some champions with dual scaling on some or one abilities. Whilst others seem like they should have adaptive scaling but dont. I think that if some champions have adaptive scaling they wouldn't be overpowered but underpowered. Their damage would be optimal if they build glasscannon. The gold cost and build paths would be a downside. In the end, I would prefer this change.

possuli2g11/30/2017, 8:33:55 PM16 votes

Yes. Ad sorakas abilities should do ad dmg aswell. I approve of this message.

KittyDcat11/30/2017, 8:42:03 PM9 votes

I think that adaptive abilities is a good idea and should be implemented into the game. As a shaco main my self I see the help it would provide and allow for shaco and other change to become more flex picks. Depending on how a game is forming, builds would be able to change even more depending on what champs pick up kills and where the enemy is putting their resists.

The major issue I see in adaptive abilities is that it would change the meta into a more burst/fighter meta almost eliminating tanks. As you gave the example Mao Kai into a tryndamere lane can assume to build armor, but with adaptive abilities, adaptive damage from runes, and a flexible build path it can almost be redundant to know whether to build armor or magic resist. An argument can be given to build pure heath, like until a tank can be certain which resists it will need.

I like the concept and would be interested to see where Riot's developer team take it. The variance it will allow for some champion will spice up champ select in high elo and maybe reach the competitive scene, while maybe reducing the early game strength of tanks.

Kloqdq11/30/2017, 9:37:34 PM8 votes

Although I suck ass with AP Shaco, I would still happily see this kinf of change in the future.

E Man forever11/30/2017, 10:02:27 PM6 votes

I feel like AP Shaco fits Shaco better thematically as Shaco has to actually out wit his enemies and do Pink Ward like outplays rather than just sneak behind and oneshot a squishy with a Duskblade Shiv crit backstab.

phillkill11/30/2017, 10:16:18 PM6 votes

I want AP SHACO back PLZZZ

5050BS11/30/2017, 11:42:00 PM5 votes

I would love to see Adaptive champions.

Shaco Akali Kennen Malzahar Mordekaiser

Should all be made into Adaptive champions.

WEANUS PEANUS11/30/2017, 11:19:47 PM5 votes

This is a good idea but I feel like it's going to have to be limited to a very small number of champions and even then would be hard to balance. I can think of stuff like AD Ekko which would be pretty strong if he had adaptive damage on his abilities. (Or any other champion that could potentially just abuse lethality on their adaptive spells.)

As far as Shaco goes, I feel like he's up for a rework. It's clear Riot doesn't want Shaco to be a good jungler ever especially with the chain of nerfs he received. He has a hard time keeping up in damage and farm compared to other assassins like Kha'zix, Evelynn, and even J4 who's basically just an assassin with bruiser stats at this point.

Melledoneus12/1/2017, 4:18:09 PM5 votes

Hey Pink Ward. Great Post.

I think Adaptive should have a threshold where if you hit a certain ratio of bonus AD-AP, it switches entirely. For example, with your Trynd example. He buys the statikk shiv, cool. But he still deals physical damage by default. Once he gets the blasting wand, he will have a sizable ratio, and now he deals magic damage. This way, you can flip flop builds as you see fit without making it absolute freaking hell to build against, which is the appeal of hybrid champions. Wondering what you think.

Also, love your stream. Your beard makes me jealous and your Shaco moments on Synapse are the highlights of that channel.

L9 Frodchi11/30/2017, 8:37:27 PM4 votes

German Shaco approves this.

Suicidal n alive11/30/2017, 10:41:16 PM4 votes

Shaco E is doing like 0 dmg :( (pls rito) and I really like this post .. I will give game much more things to think about. Game would be more about knowledge and interesting in my opinion .. And Skarner can be good test subject too. He already do like 50/50 dmg .. I was surprised when i saw it. Was interesting to me. Shaco Teemo

Cowardly Clown11/30/2017, 8:46:49 PM4 votes

I like this. In fact, I made a post about doing this to Shaco's E some months ago. Glad to see a big name giving it some traction while also speaking of it's flaws (who would take it seriously if you pretended that there weren't any?). That being said, I would propose that adaptive abilities don't scale off of the secondary stat (AD if you build AP). This would allow for riot to effectively make Shaco have two entirely separate playstyles which wouldn't get thrown out of whack by each other. For instance, His passive could scale off of AD and have no AP ratio, his Q either AD (maybe that good ole crit?) or no ratio at all (like now), his W has AP ratios like now (for damage and box stealth duration), his E scales Adaptively dealing physical damage when you build AD and magic damage when you build AP, and his R would be similar to now as well, the clone dps being focused on AD and the explosion dps being for AP. This isn't really a suggestion of how I think Shaco should be (I want his old passive back lul), just an example of a way it could work.

Shaco le Relou11/30/2017, 9:10:21 PM4 votes

Totally agree. There are a lot of differences between AD and AP Shaco. I love AD Shaco but play him AP, it's so much more fun, he has a unique style of play that's why you should bring him back ... Let's be honest Ap Shaco is not very viable since April :'( ... I think it's a shame to have reworked him, he didn't need it ...

Zomb99911/30/2017, 9:31:46 PM4 votes

Let this be a thing shaco is my favorite champ and both ap and ad bring a smile to my face. Adaptive damage would really emphasize a flexible shaco.

Automated Riven11/30/2017, 9:12:44 PM3 votes

I agree with shaco. But I also want Ezreal to be adaptive. This would allow for him to actually scale as an ad and his Q to be useful as ap.

maTsTaT11/30/2017, 8:35:04 PM3 votes

It would certainly give Shaco something unique to his kit that nobody else would have. How he was a year ago imo was perfect in that he was basically a hybrid assassin. You could go which ever way you wanted to go in terms of build and that gave a slight advantage towards matchups that shaco would normally struggle in. I don't like the recent changes riot have been making because it forces a shaco player to build one way and play one way, instead of letting the community come up with their own ways of playing the champ, especially the even smaller niche in the ap shaco top players.

Pankryzys11/30/2017, 8:54:42 PM3 votes

Polish Shaco approves this. Shaco item 3100 item 3147

LexXxy12/2/2017, 11:35:01 AM3 votes

There is nothing more satisfing than bait your enemies into box trap, finishing them with your E... Wait a minute... E hah E....

Thé River King12/10/2017, 6:17:52 PM2 votes

The thing i used to one trick ap shaco supp i got around 300k on him (i know it's not much), but the nerfs just kept coming and coming and they made ap shaco basicly not vaiable at all at one point and i just got forced to play in the current meta I happened to play tahm kench, byt Shaco was alot more fun much more enjoyable gameplay overall i LOVED!!! playing ap shaco supp it was actually pretty decent pick i was able to counter thresh and blitz with my w if iput it the right time not just having to be a fatcatfish pressing w on the adc when he/she gets stunned I'd love shaco having adaptive dmg this way i will be able to play ap shaco supp again and bully thresh players

Divine Thighs12/2/2017, 3:03:44 AM2 votes

I feel like builds are becoming less and less creative with the changes to champions and items. Anything that can increase builds variety is welcome in my book. I miss the old days when there where multiple viable builds for a champ.

Crz33312/5/2017, 10:25:34 PM2 votes

I see a lot of ezreal mentions in the comments and i have to say, this already exists (or existed, don't much care about ez). His ultimate, at least at one point, dealt either physical or magical damage based on whatever he had more of. It's easy to forget cuz it's boring as shit and the description drags on forever but it's not like this mechanic doesn't exist. Rito do diz right now

PotatoPlayer9212/1/2017, 3:00:42 AM1 votes

yo all talk bollshit i like ezreal the awy it is and shaco to ezreal is nice both ways shaco is nice both ways... leran to pay you role nothn more... you could make more champs like that yes, i supose they are just products but ggwpp.. w all enjoy latest buffed champs htat are banned like all the time... ^^.

Lococalvo12/1/2017, 10:01:39 AM1 votes

How the **** do you build against Kayle? She could be the second in that really as she is not that popular

Ralanr12/1/2017, 2:45:42 PM1 votes

One problem I see is how high AP can get over AD.

AP builds at max can have at least 200 more AP than a full AD build outside of Jhin (I might be wrong).

KindredAndWolf12/1/2017, 10:33:37 AM1 votes

With the way Riot destroyed rework Evelynn, I highly doubt a new Shaco will keep his hybrid scaling the way it used to be. I talked to Rioters for months and months and months about keeping Evelynn a hybrid. The rework comes around and what do ya fucking know, she is all ap and forced to build like a mage, forever. Her Kit doesn't allow the use of ad items even if she had adaptive ratios. They went a step further and gave her a cookie cutter build. From one of the most diverse champions (if not the most diverse) to 100% predictable in build and gank patterns. Again, I asked about it for MONTHS before the rework, like 6 months almost every day. I used pretty much the same arguments you use for adaptive damage and they completely ignored me and all the Eve mains on the Eve subreddit. They made it clear they were going to do exactly what they wanted and didn't care at all about how we felt or what we had to say.

A reoccurring reason for the removal of Eve's hybrid ratios was thematic fantasy . Their logic goes like this... "we feel magic damage better suits Eve's thematic fantasy so we are keeping her 100% ap". Seriously, THEMATIC FANTASY.

Now ask yourself, what is Shaco's thematic killing frenzy. Take that answer and forget about it because i guarantee with 100% certainty that the dev's has a different idea of his thematic fantasy than someone who plays the champ religiously. Fear for a shaco rework, he may come out with all of his abilities scaling with HP doing magic damage only. Speaking of tanks...

What was old Poppy's identity. I played her alot and I can tell you everytime I saw her, i saw an ugly killing machine that gave no fucks because there is always a way to kill you. I thought her most iconic ability was her Q. It made a crazy sound and HIT LIKE A TRUCK converting all the damage from sheen and auto attacks into magic damage. What did Riot see? They thought her most iconic ability was her E, the one ability I would've love for them to change. They see it as her defining character ability and wanted to design her kit around it. Lo and behold come rework time Poppy with her assassin like damage, speed, and hybrid scaling was completely changed into a peeling tank that was only good when she was op. The funniest part, they ended up nerfing her E range and removing her from the meta. She hasn't been back since.

Eve is in the same boat. Binary as fuck kit and ap ratios that are too high on her ult. She will end up getting the nerf hammer too eventually once people start abusing her like they did poppy. Shaco? as annoying as he is now I can see shaco easily getting abused and nerfed also.

If I was you Pink ward, I would start campaigning well in advanced if you want to see your champion done right. And even after you do that.... Well lets just say you should be praying riot forgets about shaco. Good luck.