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Shaco and some well needed Quality of Life buffs/Kit updates.

Pink Ward·2/7/2015, 1:36:10 AM·60 votes·7,182 views

Shaco is a champion that has been over looked for a very long while. I am a veteran Shaco player with over 1000 games of Shaco played, mostly ap because I find it extremely fun outplaying people with box play and my mechanical usage of his clone. His kit fits what this needs to do, but there are many bugs and/or fixes that have been over looked in his abilities.

  1. Shaco boxes (JiB) allow for a split second skills that have little to no "wind up" animations to be done after the boxes activation. Example : Katarina shunpo onto shaco, shaco is standing on top of a box, Katarina still is able to cast her Sinister Steel ability. The fear should be instant, not allowing any skills to be applied or used when nearing the JiB.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTLx_z55MAU Good representation of how this bug goes about. The fear hits Kassadin in this video and he is still able to get off Force pulse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDpIE4lAH4M#t=110 This video also may tie into #3 but the riven Q pushes straight through box and not away.

  1. Another ability that does not get interrupted by JiB is Warwick's Infinite Duress. Example : Warwick ult's a unit on top or near a JiB, Warwick will not be feared but will activate the JiB, locking the unit in place for the full duration. The fear should deny Warwick's Infinite Duress and allow the suppress to be broken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3PhlJT-pRM#t=20

  2. The JiB has a chance of denying Jarvan IV's ult, interrupting the jump, damage and putting it on cooldown. Example : Jarvan IV uses Cataclysm while near a JiB, Cataclysm's animation brings him slightly closer to the Unit and puts him into the animation of the Cataclysm's jump. While in this animation, the JiB will fear Jarvan IV and deny Cataclsym. This is beneficial for Shaco, but may be a bug. Either way it is really unreliable if it is intended (Which I highly doubt it is). There are many other skills such as Jax's Leap Strike, Lee Sin's Resonating Strike, among other aerial abilities that have weird interactions that are very unreliable with the JiB's that react in a similar manner to this. Sometimes the JiB will cancel the aerial ability and they are pushed away from the box due to the fear, and others they will continue on their target with the fear being useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKS1YlA_bWs&feature=youtu.be#t=20 In this video, Jax jumps onto me with 1 box activating but when there are multiple boxes, he gets feared out of his jump away from the boxes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll-q1QVV4I0&feature=youtu.be#t=25 This video shows Jarvan's ult being cancelled.

  1. I feel a slight buff to a more ap oriented Shaco would be nice. Allowing for items such as Rylais and Liandry's Torment, to be applied on JiB attacks would help this. The argument arises that JiBs are similar to Heimerdinger's turrets is something I find to be false. I feel like boxes are a very big part of an ap Shaco's kit and to be more closely similar to Teemo's shrooms. The abilities are both invisible and activate when coming in contact with an enemy unit. Along with Zyra's plants applying item effects, i feel JiBs should also apply them. It would help those who want to play a more unique build with Shaco.
    If these are not to be updated, I think frostfang and Spellthief's Edge do not proc off of boxes OR shaco's clone and should be updated to do so.

  2. Shaco's ultimate, Hallucination, has no been updated in a very long while. The clone's movements do not feel as smooth as controlling Shaco generally. The clone can (sometimes) use the laugh/taunt/joke jesters, but most of the time will not, maybe because not in range? I feel an update to Shaco's clone viability would allow for some counterplay with Shaco since it is a huge part of the Shaco's "Jestery" Kit. I think allowing for the Clone to have backing animations when you yourself are backing, would be another helpful buff to help out play your opponent.

  3. Now one of the biggest flaws I find to Shaco's clone is that if you click on the clone, it will have no items and will not benefit from runes and masteries. Instantly someone who has complete common sense will recognize which Shaco is the real one if they click on it. Another easy thing to see is if Shaco is using a pot, or any other buff, it will be easily noticed and disallow Shaco the counterplay with his clone. Another part to this is something not usually recognized, but if Shaco uses his clone when in fog of war or while in a bush, and brings his clone out of the bush before him, the clone will have lost mana. It is not seen very much, but it does happen and I noticed when watching a stream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKS1YlA_bWs#t=276 Video of Shaco's clone not having stats from runes/masteries or items.

  4. Found another buggy situation with Shaco's Hallucination. When moving with alt+right mouse click, if you ping the map the shaco clone with run back to the user instead of fully going to where I set the movement command. Just another bug with him. You never really notice all the things wrong with a champion until you Number them haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAaoIw-Imo4#t=20 This video shows 2 things. 1 the mana of the clone goes down when not in vision of enemies. 2, the pinging pulls the clone back to shaco.

  1. If shaco attacks immediately after using Deceive (Q), he will not get the Crit and it will just be a fizzled use that puts your Q on cooldown. I find this incredibly annoying when trying to assassinate someone or get off the free crit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAaoIw-Imo4#t=55 Shaco does not crit after Qing.

  2. If you auto then Deceive (Q) then you will instantly come out of invis. They Q will go on cd, you won't get the crit, and most of the time when it happens I personally need it to get away Haha.. But so much unreliability found in every single skill besides shiv (Which to be honest the passive application is really RNG). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMnQmstTvvM This is the bug I am pointing out. Not my video just could not replicate it easily.

  3. Shaco boxes are easily 1 shotted by most aoe moves by level 7-9 because they have a constant 150 hp throughout all levels. A health system like zyra plants or even scaling health per level would help a lot.

Shaco is in an 'ok' place where he's at, but just a few minor updates to his kit and quality of life buffs could help his play style change significantly for the better.

Just to clarify, # 2 and 3 aren't buffs, they are bugs that shaco struggles with at the moment. The usage of his boxes are a bit unreliable because of them. Shaco is sort of an outdated champ and has not really been 'sandpapered' in a long while. With all the new abilities and synergy's of abilities that have been put into the game since shaco was released, he needs to have some kinks worked out his boxes and how the effect enemy's skills and animations.

With the questions about #1 I am not talking about the fade time when the box is placed, I am talking about while the box is already down and an enemy uses a gap closer onto a unit near the box, they will be feared but still have the chance of using an ability with no 'wind up' animation. One that is instant and has little to no animation to it. This allows for clearing of the box in the later game which makes the box completely useless (usually an aoe ability). I pointed out Katarina's Sinister Steel, but there are others, Rek'Sai's Unborrow, Kassadin's Null Sphere and Force Pulse (usually when he uses Riftwalk to engage on top of a box), etc. There are plenty of different skills that have bad interactions with boxes.

60 Comments

Phife2/7/2015, 1:39:21 AM19 votes

wow, how are these not already applied in game?

100% agree.

darkdill2/7/2015, 1:39:21 AM13 votes

Anything that's done to improve Shaco just makes him more obnoxious. One particular problem with his kit is that his passive is borderline toxic. If he has the upper hand on you, you're left with a lose-lose situation: Do you stand and die, or run and die faster?

I can tell Shaco will EVENTUALLY get updated, but don't count on it within the next 2 or so years.

Good points, though.

Stonington2/7/2015, 3:33:10 AM8 votes

OH, the clone doesn't show items? That's fucked up, especially since it benefits from items. Also it's kinda silly how the clone always faces the top of the map when summoned. It should face the direction you're facing.

I play a lot of Shaco too, not the amount you have. I kinda feel like an instant fear or a faster fear might be a bit OP. I'd like to see his dodge chance on his E turn into flat damage reduction from neutral monsters so I'm not just getting lucky clears with low damage taken. That's a pretty benign buff.

ScreamPaste2/7/2015, 3:44:39 AM5 votes

Please show Shaco some love, riot.

Cenobite Azaziel2/7/2015, 2:45:07 AM4 votes

Riot won't touch shaco until he is remade. JiB is an awful skill by today standards.It was made so any non mobile champ can dodge by just walking by it. Anyone with a displacement can easly dodge your box. A 0.5 fear for a skills that generally is the last one to be lvl.

Shaco was good with counter jungling. Counter jungle now is a crap if you don't get a kill. Buffs used to be good, now they are just for "meh".

Shaco has no wave clears, has only a way in for ganking/assassinate, has mana problems in the jungle and falls off hard late game if you don't split push.

I guess the only reason to pick him over j4 is that shaco can help a lane snow ball. If you laners suck, well you would be better with lee sin or j4 for the late game, tankyness and tons of damage.

Zahz2/7/2015, 1:59:47 AM4 votes

I dont see how u can compare a jib to teemos shrooms. Teemos shrooms do what they do because they are technically his ultimate skill. And shacos boxes have a much larger range then a teemo shroom does. If they applied this insta fear i think it would be open up to some pretty hardcore abuse. Shaco as an ap is interesting but i honestly have never seen one succeed anywhere near the level he does when he is AD and i feel like thats where they wanna keep him. Its awesome that u can make it work but i dont think that means it is grounds for a buff either without risking it becoming broken. Anything u do to ap shaco will also have effects on ad shaco . Imagine ad shaco having insta fear box. you would never get away nor could u ever catch him

Sinlaire2/7/2015, 7:29:01 AM3 votes

The fear change for the JiB in order to break ult i disagree with. it would be such a cheap get out of jail card for so many champs. it could break VI's R, J4's R, WW R, Poppy R, Akali R chain, Diana R chain, Katarina R,, etc.

i mean all Shaco would have to do is make sure he's close to a JiB or have one he can throw down and essentially he can negate with utter impunity ever single attempt to get close to him regardless of whatever gap closer or even melee distance ultimate they throw at him.

which by Riot and every gamer's standards indicate, completely and totally lacks counterplay.

Droogzy2/7/2015, 5:47:37 AM2 votes

My biggest problem with Shaco has always been the ease of being able to tell the difference between the real Shaco and his clone. This issue has become even more problematic with the introduction of 3 more visual buff indicators, making it even more painfully obvious. If they even put dummy buffs on the clone which dont do anything, I'd be happy.

Coolomat2/10/2015, 7:30:29 PM2 votes

First of all, Mr Pink Ward Sir, ur Ap shaco is insane, kinda wanna tell u guys this dude knows what hes talkin about, keep up the awesome plays! (saw him in BoxBox's Stream, and observed him a while)

To topic: What i want to add to this list is the hp of the Jib, which is set at 150 hp at any rank. In the early game its quite alot and dosnt allow enemies to burst them quickly, but when it comes to mid/late its like 1 Riven q and they die...which is just insanely annoying as ap shaco, cus ur dmg relies on those hitting alot and paired with the wind up problem mentioned they just die before they can dmg any1.

For comparison:

  1. Zyra's Plants set at 3 hp with most attack in the game doin 1 to max 2 dmg to it

2)Heimer Turrets which HP scale hard into late game (Health: 150 (+25 per level) (+5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/8.35/11.85/15.35/18.85/22.35/25.85/29.35/32.85/36.35/40% Ability Power, source LoLSkill.net), so at lvl 1 they even got more hp (~175) than Shaco's box and outscale them hard into mid/late

For sure i agree on all the suggestions posted, didnt even know about most of them tbh.

Greetings, Coolomat

SanKakU2/7/2015, 3:22:08 AM2 votes

Posting in another Shaco thread to suggest his traps scale their invisible duration, perhaps 100 AP for +15 seconds. Also, make the duration of the invisibility for him scale with AP, like 100 AP for +1 second.

  1. Have not noticed that or forgot about it. Might be a good idea.

  2. No opinion.

  3. No opinion.

  4. I like it.

  5. Not sure what this is about.

  6. This is really strange since the clone does use the passives of the items of Shaco.

What Is Smite2/8/2015, 6:45:04 PM1 votes

I don't think shaco JiB should be insta fear, they are a trap just like Cait's Yordle Snap Trap or Jinx's Snare Grenades and need time to setup before being activated

Pink Ward2/25/2015, 9:56:47 AM1 votes

Have added some videos evidence of some of these events.

Kitten of Evil2/7/2015, 6:07:02 AM1 votes

I dunno, I only play normals, but the last probably 5 times I've seen Shaco in-game, he has wrecked. Twice on my team, three times on the other team, but either way he doesn't seem to need any help. He's in a particular role of early-game powerhouse (who can snowball if necessary) and that's fine.

Some champs have awful early-game, amazing late-game (Sejuani, Poppy) Some champs have great early-game, but fall off late-game (Shaco, Garen) Some champs peak in mid-game, and aren't quite as strong early or super-late (Vlad, Nasus)

Nunya Bezwacks2/7/2015, 7:47:41 AM1 votes

"The JiB has a chance of denying Jarvan IV's ult, interrupting the jump, damage and putting it on cooldown. Example : Jarvan IV uses Cataclysm while near a JiB, Cataclysm's animation brings him slightly closer to the Unit and puts him into the animation of the Cataclysm's jump. While in this animation, the JiB will fear Jarvan IV and deny Cataclsym. This is beneficial for Shaco, but may be a bug. Either way it is really unreliable if it is intended (Which I highly doubt it is). There are many other skills such as Jax's Leap Strike, Lee Sin's Resonating Strike, among other aerial abilities that have weird interactions that are very unreliable with the JiB's that react in a similar manner to this. Sometimes the JiB will cancel the aerial ability and they are pushed away from the box due to the fear, and others they will continue on their target with the fear being useless."

translation - GET DUN...AHH A SPOOKY BOX QUICK FEET BREAK THE LAWS OF PHYSICS AND REALITY AND LET ME RUN AWAY!!"

"I feel like boxes are a very big part of an ap Shaco's kit and to be more closely similar to Teemo's shrooms" teemo shrooms (ultimate with rather high mana cost) =/= invisible 60 second spooky trap available level 1 used mostly for jungle clears.

first two are the only good ideas the rest are stupid because all that counter play you keep blabing about isn't adding it its taking it away from anyone who has to deal with him he was already buffed to hell at the start of season 4 since he can walk up to your lane from out of sight thanks to pink ward changes but those signs that you want removed are the only way to tell them apart if shaco's clone did no damage like leblancs did it might not matter but shaco's does damage and uses items like shiv

Grouchy Poro2/7/2015, 8:56:11 AM1 votes

I think the fear buffs would make him too strong. A battle ready price of demacia wouldn't stop mid jump to piss himself :/. I say this for the thematic purpose, no bias as I don't play J4, or WW for that mater. It'd make jack in the box too much of a cheese move instead of the trap it's meant to be.

The clone sandpapering is a good idea though. Too easy to figure out who's the real Shaco.

Junkο2/7/2015, 9:37:25 AM1 votes

He is getting reworked in a month or 2 and if his splash art is any indication, they are keeping his Jitb and clone, so they will probably be improved.

LankPants2/7/2015, 2:12:00 PM1 votes

Shaco boxes (JiB) allow for a split second skills that have little to no "wind up" animations to be done after the boxes activation. Example : Katarina shunpo onto shaco, shaco is standing on top of a box, Katarina still is able to cast her Sinister Steel ability. The fear should be instant, not allowing any skills to be applied or used when nearing the JiB.

I think the CC layering changes should most likely solve that one since they address the issue of queued abilities being used within CCs.

Skias2/7/2015, 9:14:23 PM1 votes

The problem is, when allowed to be strong, He is a misery to play against. He has a full rework coming, which he desperately needs. Stealth is a mechanic in League of Legends which historically works terribly. Most iterations of stealth have been problematic or caused the champion to sustain massive nerfs.

I agree with you however, it does suck that the champion you enjoy has strange quirks. Not trying to say that your concerns are without warrant.

Madra2/8/2015, 12:18:16 AM1 votes

Fix the bugs before we start to buff.

Akali is SO HOT2/8/2015, 12:35:32 AM1 votes

Here are some other well needed things for Shaco in general:

For Jibs: -Fix the health to either scale with rank or make it like Zyra's plants so they can't get 1 shotted late game -Fix the AI like so: Priorities are: Enemies Shaco is attacking>Nearest Enemy attacking Shaco>Turrets and Inhibitors>Minions and Monsters For minions and monsters: Make it prioritize the big monster in each camp if there is one and hard lock onto one of the smaller monsters if the big monster is not there.

For his E: -Turn the RNG dodge into passive damage reduction against monsters that scales with rank. (RNG = Bad for Game Health)

For his clone: -Fix the ping bug -If Shaco has BT shield make his clone spawn with the same shield as real Shaco -Allow the clone to proc the Botrk passive -Make the clone spawn with the amount of stacks Shaco has for shiv -Give the ult Shaco's buffs -Allow Shaco's clone to have the sunfire cape passive (can no longer stack them and it's been nerfed so sunfire Shaco is no longer op) -Allow Shaco's clone to have the GA revive animation if it dies -Let the clone benefit from lifesteal (longshot request for this one). If it's too op make it so it benefits partially from lifesteal

lDontLiftIcarry2/8/2015, 7:27:14 AM1 votes

that CC stopping j4 ult is a bug They need to fix that shit Its been happening since season 5 started Its some stupid coding error with this CC bullshit they were tweaking for awhile now. I just know its that.

his ult is supposed to be unstoppable. Its already bugged enough where if you have 450+ ms you just walk out. dont need more of that bs