I Just Had My Own Personal #RedditKnowsBalance Moment, Now I Feel Like an Idiot

ArnoldSchwarzens··21 votes·1,425 views

For the longest time now I've been complaining about ADC Kog'Maws current state, I was complaining on the boards about how terrible his build options are, how he is never going to be good unless he will get better synergies with crit, how shitty on-hit items are and therefore Kog'Maw must be shit. When the preseason hit I was ranting about him even more, I thought since the new Fervor is going to give AD instead of on-hit and because of Kog'Maws vulnerability to assassins he is going to be even more terrible and hit something below a 45% win rate.

Well . . . what ACTUALLY happened . . . http://champion.gg/champion/KogMaw/ADC

His win rate went up consistently ever since the preseason hit. There's not even any excuse that I can come up with now, I've just been talking consistent bullshit for the last few months. Even worse, I got decent amount of upvotes on some of these posts even though they've oviously been untrue and flawed.

I'm still not sure why exactly this happened, I have some theories but I'm kinda scared that I have to call out my own bullshit again in a few months because these theories turned out to be untrue aswell.

I think it has something to do with the rework of early game penetration builds on marksmen, which were super dominant in lane and most of them also are counters to Kog'Maw, like Lucian, Jhin etc. On top of that, even though the change of Fervor from on-hit to AD kind of seemed counter-intuitive at first since Kog'Maw is THE on-hit carry, the AD ratio on his ult and the fact that he builds crit in the late game made up for that, more than I expected it to. Plus, there was the recent buff to BotRK which seemed to have a decent impact on his build.

Even with all that in mind, it's still just super surprising to me just by how much his win rate rose over the last few patches.

Just goes to show that you should be as critical of yourself as you should be of others, else you are going to look like a complete fool.

25 Comments

Sightless668 votes

While it's always cool to see someone acknowledging that the data doesn't support their assumptions, I feel like I have to rain on your self-reflective parade for just a minute.

The preseason has seen ADC Kog's playrate sink to about 0.5%. When we get to playrates that low, we've historically seen patterns of pretty significant winrate jumps on a patch-to-patch basis, even when there were no real changes to the champion's balance state. The low sample sizes introduce the possibility for a lot of variance in the data, particularly early in the patch cycles.

So, maybe Kog is good, but maaaybe it's just noise. Too early to make any conclusions based on this data.

Sahn Uzal7 votes

Trust me, I've had my own ''I'm such a fucking idiot'' moment around the time GP was getting ban hammered over multiple patches. I think it was the nerf after the 3 barrel nerf...

TheHurricaneGamr3 votes

Unless they absolutely gut GP, he will always be decent. Although I do wonder about what Riot currently thinks about his balance state. Both his win rate and play rate have been consistently dropping patch after patch.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I sucked at the game back then :p

TheHurricaneGamr1 votes

I still do.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Compared to where I'm at now; I still suck at this game, obviously :P

So this one time6 votes

good on you.

SirHeavyScrotum4 votes

His winrate went up for a lot of reasons, actually. Balance is rarely a single faceted thing. Firstly, when the preseason hit, Courage of the Colossus hit League of Legends like a ton of bricks. Basically if you're not playing a tanky jungler with CotC, you're probably trolling. Along with that, with the Assassin update a lot of people were playing assassins. Who excells against assassins? Tanks. Kog'Maw really benefits from a meta where tanks are the predominate top and jungle picks, because he can sit in the backline and auto the enemy tanks and shred them with his on hit build, and if an assassin tries to kill him he can get peel from his tanks. Kog'Maw struggles in a game where both teams have a really high threat density, because he can't really deal with multiple people trying to burst him and no one protecting him. Also you're right about the armor pen builds being nerfed into non existence in competitive play (literally not even Lucian is building Lethality in the bot lane anymore), that helped him survive the now weaker lane bullies like Draven, Lucian, Miss Fortune, and Jhin that were all destroying Kog'Maw with the armor pen builds. On top of that, as you also mentioned his build path was buffed in two ways, Rageblade now gives 25% attack speed upon combination instead of 0, and Bork now deals more % Current health than it used to. Both big buffs for Kog'Maw. The Fervor nerf does kinda suck, but it's pretty easily offset by better items and a more favorable meta, and besides more AD does mean your autos do more damage so it's not like the mastery is completely lost on Kog'Maw.

Without a doubt the three best ADCs in the game right now are Vayne, Twitch, and Caitlyn. Twitch and Caitlyn both have impressive range (to stay out of tank's engage range and away from assassins), they're all three good at killing tanks (Caitlyn more so late game not in the mid game), and they're all relatively safe and not team reliant. Kog'maw has a lot of these same strengths, with good range and tank killing power, and is somewhat safe with his uber long range and the ability to contribute to the fight even if he dies, but suffers from severe team dependancy. If Kog'Maw could make solo plays he would be beyond broken, but the reality of it is if he tries to flank like Twitch does or 1v5 like Vayne does or 1v2 siege like Cait does, he would just die. But, with everyone picking tanks right now his chances of getting a team that is good at peeling for a Kog'Maw is pretty high. So there's your explanation as to why his winrate went up ;)

Rebonack4 votes

It's because of a tiny sample size. Wait for a few updates and the numbers will probably normalize.

Try this one http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/kogmaw/adc/platinum

Kog's success has gone up a lil' bit due to the buff on BorK, but most of it is the result of soft targets losing the MR Aura of Locket later in the game. The changes to penetration made the bullies who pick on him less overbearing and CotC has encouraged more people taking actual tanks into battle. Kog likes enemy teams with lower damage. He also likes allied teams with more CC. It's an environment ideal for him, but even then he's still sitting at the 47~48% range. Not terrible, but there still isn't any particularly compelling reason to pick him aside from liking Kog.

I would generally suggest using Leagueofgraphs rather than champgg whenever possible. Its sample size is a hell of a lot larger.

notice me Sin pi3 votes

patch 6.23: item 3153 6% >> 8%

PermabannedGaren2 votes

His play rate is so low that any data isn't going to be reliable.

Look at the win rate of people with 125+ games on him. Over 96%. 50-125 is 56%.

About 13% of the playerbase is vastly overperforming on him, bringing his average win rate high.

Kog'maw has less than a thousand games total played this patch. Worthless.

Athenes Lulu2 votes

Glad to see that you are willing to acknowledge your own mistakes.

Don't worry, everyone has their moments. One time I bitched and whined over the fact that Riot is nerfing item 3092 's mana regen from 150% to 100% (which that thread got like ~100 upvotes), and after that nerf took place, still a good item.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

I always laugh when people cry about small changes like that haha. Not to make fun of you of course, it just seems silly because people don't really realize how little 50% base mana regen is in the grand scheme of things. I doubt it's ever caused someone to lose a game tbh

Cowseed2 votes

But...... >.>

His play rate is 0.57%

Aeszarck1 votes

Wow, kudos to you. It takes character to admit stuff like that.

Viktorious Sayph1 votes

Holy... 96% win rate 125+ games

Champion Skin2 votes

Probably incredibly small sample size....

Titanium701 votes

Made the mistake, clicked on the Link and scroled down...

http://i.imgur.com/ETkwuv5.jpg

... ... eh... ... what am I looking at!!!!!

GG!

Supreme Senpai691 votes

That happens when there's like no data or a low sample size. Or maybe it's just because Thresh has a very high play rate or that he's overtuned.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

I always said the Botrk + Trinity build was going to be the best again once they reverted him.

People said I was crazy. They said that since Triforce has no crit that he won't like it.

But look at that!

item 3078 item 3006 item 3153

Also, OP, it is worth noting that the highest win% mastery page has Warlords instead of Fervor, so your assessment of Fervor with Kog is not ENTIRELY baseless.

EmollientNut01 votes

Credit to being able to admit you're wrong. I'm sure we could all go in to our histories and dig up something ridiculous lmao. However I'm still sticking to my recent stances of the Shen and Akali reworks being bad. I'd like to see them do more with both.

Off Meta Evan1 votes

i think it has to do with old (as in the reworked kogmaw) kog being a lot more team based and needed a lot more peel than current kog but maybe i'm insane.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Don't worry about it

Saianna1 votes

If a champion is shit and his enviroment (in which he functions) isn't flawed, then champion plays shitty.

If a champion is shit and his enviroment IS flawed (lack of assassins/ certain counter items nerfed), then champion is stilly shitty, but has decent winrate.

(I'm not saying Kog is bad. but.. he kinda feels bad. But if he does better, it doesn't mean he is fine. It just means Riot artifically pulls him by ears from bottom of the lake)

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

I think you have failed to realize that his play rate is really low (0.57%) and these games are taken from plat+ If we suddenly saw a large amount of players playing Kog you would see a large drop in his win rate. So right now your posts looks pretty stupid. Not trying to insult you, but you haven't put a lot of thought into the balance of Kog'Maw. Oh and thought I might add in that Kog'Maw is supposed to be a late game hyper carry, but these statistics show that he only has a 10 minute period between 30-40 minutes where he has a positive win rate, anything earlier or later has a significantly lower win rate. In my opinion he is still a piece of shit that needs some changes in order to be anything close to useful.

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