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Why the ADC meta shifts.

Eedat··16 votes·1,695 views

I'm sure we've all noticed that the ADC role is dominated once again by hyper-carries like Jinx, Vayne, and Trist. I want to address two points on why this is. First, the golden rule of the ADC meta:

Hyper-carries get stronger the weaker lane bullies become

It wasn't too long ago that the ADC role was dominated by lane bullies such as Lucian and Graves or even Corki. So what happened? Why are hyper-carries back? The answer simply is that the lane bullies that could keep them in check got nerfed and/or fell out of favor. This doesn't even apply to just ADC lane bullies. Supports like Annie and Alistar and are out of favor once again. Add to the fact that the itemization for aggressive AP support lane bullies is terrible and you get an environment that is great for a hyper-carry. It used to be you would pick Vayne or Jinx and the enemy team would lock in Graves and Annie. The hyper-carry had to spend a lot of the laning phase zoned from CS and fearing for their life which in turn would delay their power spikes.

This flip flop of the ADC meta has happened several times already. It's a constant struggle between hyper-carries and lane bullies. We need the lane bullies to keep the other side in check. The current meta just flat out isn't punishing enough for these ADCs with weak early games.

So what does this mean? Should we buff Lucian and Graves? The answer really isn't that simple. This brings me to the second point.

It also has to do with what the overall meta demands. The meta currently has a ton of defense stacking bruisers and tanks with built in sustain. The recent itemization changes just made these champs more popular. Also, tank supports are much more popular as well. Hyper-carries are much more suited for burning through higher HP targets with low burst, but high sustained damage. The traditional lane bully ADCs are better for dealing with squishy targets with more upfront burst, but less sustained damage. The lane bullies just aren't suited as well for dealing with multiple tanky targets that the meta is right now.

So what does this all mean? Should we just nerf the hyper-carries because they do well currently? I don't think that would be the correct answer. Hyper-carries are strong because that is what the Meta demands right now. I think we're just going to have to wait for what the Marksmen Update brings. We don't have any info of what is coming, which is why I don't think "nerf X champion" is the best idea at the moment. We have no idea how the major upcoming changes are going to affect everyone

Well this concludes my discussion. I'm sorry if you were looking for more specific details about certain champs. I hope this helps you understand why the ADC meta is the way it is currently. We'll all have to wait and see what the Marksmen Update has in store for us.

24 Comments

A Miss Fortune4 votes

My main issue with ADCs is that hypercarries like Vayne, Tristana, and Jinx can feed all they want but as soon as they hit late game they'll blow you up extremely fast. That and for some reason all hypercarries are starting to become really safe and strong early game. Jinx can harass people to no ends if they don't outrange her, Vayne can out-duel all but a handful of ADCs (Miss Fortune and Ashe I believe) early game, and Tristana with her jump, knock back, and pushing power is really safe.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

This is exactly the problem. I support often, and often I'll help feed our Sivir or Caitlyn a couple kills, but it honestly never feels like you can shut down a Jinx or a Vayne early game. They can go 0/3 or 0/4 and still destroy teams later.

A Miss Fortune4 votes

One thing I don't like about early game champions like Caitlyn (Ezreal and Lucian being among them) is that they can't just do well early game, they NEED to get ahead. If not they do next to no damage. If you've ever played Catilyn when you didn't get fed in lane you hit like a wet noodle since you have no AA steroids and your abilities don't even do damage, and even if Caitlyn does get really far ahead It doesn't matter because the enemy ADC hypercarry will just shake off getting smashed in lane and 1v5 later.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I agree with this but I'd say it even more strongly. You can't just get a bit fed. You have to be an extremely fed Caitlyn (we're talking 4 or 5 kills ahead of the enemy ADC) before it feels like you might hold your own against Jinx or Vayne. That, to me, seems like a balance problem, because games aren't usually over in 20 minutes.

SymbolicFear3 votes

I agree with your post, however, I must say that Lucian needs a buff. Not Graves, just Lucian. Ever since he had his damage reduction, he has been the laughing stock of the ADCs and its really quite pitiful. Especially since Lucian is such a fun and cool champion to play.

Hayaishi27 votes

{quoted}

I agree with your post, however, I must say that Lucian needs a buff. Not Graves, just Lucian. Ever since he had his damage reduction, he has been the laughing stock of the ADCs and its really quite pitiful. Especially since Lucian is such a fun and cool champion to play.

No he does not.

Nsqui4 votes

Lucian doesn't need buffs, you say?

Yes, he does. There is simply ZERO reason to pick Lucian over any other AD Carry at this stage in the game. He simply does NOT have the damage to compensate for having a meager 500 range.

Sivir, the only other ADC whose range is that short, has a skillshot Q with long range and high damage, an ult that serves as a full team engage, and an ability that allows her to nullify the effects of another spell. These qualities balance out the fact that she has 500 range as an ADC.

Let's look at Lucian. What does he bring to the table? In lane, he has the ability to bully early thanks to his Q proc through minions, and his E - Passive - Q - Passive combo is difficult to trade with. However, unless he gains a farm advantage or picks up a kill early in lane, his opponent will consistently have the upper hand despite Lucian's ability to bully, simply because Lucian's passive damage is so negligible early.

Outside of lane phase, what does Lucian bring? Considering that he has only 500 range, he is not able to siege down towers in the style of a Caitlyn, Jinx, or Tristana. He also brings nothing to the table in terms of engage - he doesn't have any CC, and doesn't carry any team-wide buffs like Sivir does - he simply has damage. But, because his range is so ridiculously short, he has no way to USE this damage unless his team hard engages. And even so, if they do hard engage, Lucian's range forces him to be in the faces of everyone he attempts to burst, leading him to be easily chain CC'd or focused by the enemy APC or ADC.

The bottom line is this - Lucian has one thing - damage. He brings NOTHING else to the table for his team. No utility, no team-wide buffs, no long range besieging power. Damage is all that he has to offer. The issue with this is that there are SEVERAL other damage focused AD Carries that do their job better than Lucian. Corki, Graves, and Draven are all centered on damage, possessing very little or no CC, in the same style as Lucian. That said, all three of them do it better. Corki has higher range, a better escape, armor shred, true damage, and a spammable, long range poke. Graves has insane burst, higher range, an attack speed steroid, and a half decent slow/vision denial tool. Draven has MUCH higher damage, an attack speed/movement speed steroid that is nearly infinitely spamable, a great knock-back, and a high damage, global ult. All three of these AD Carries bring high damage to the table, along with all of the above listed qualities. So if Lucian's only trait is damage, yet he is not the best damage focused AD Carry, then there is a problem, and that problem needs to be remedied.

Gixia1 votes

I believe I read a red post that said Lucian was one of the ADCs that would be getting a larger number of changes during the marksman update.

Nsqui1 votes

Can you try to find that post? I would love to see it.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

To be honest I've had significantly more success playing AP Lucian than AD Lucian. AD Lucian just hurts like a wet noodle and if he gets behind minions can do more damage.

Retillin1 votes

Lucian is a "safety" ADC now. He doesn't do the insane amount of damage early like Draven, or late like Vayne. He's just "eh" at everything and is really hard to kill with his mobility. This is one of the few times Riot has made a character balanced on mobility.

Nsqui1 votes

That's exactly what he isn't. His range makes him insanely easy to kill if he attempts to do his job. If he prefers to not die, he must sacrifice his ability to do damage, and that's not a choice for an ADC. His mobility is gated by the amount of times to he sling his passive out in a teamfight, and due to his short range, he cannot effectively chain together the passive procs required to make this mobility useful unless his team goes all in and blows their entire load to set the stage for him.

Lucian is one stun/root away from being deleted instantly, and he has nothing to prevent this from happening if he still wants to do damage (he doesn't have long range to keep him safe, he doesn't have an ability to negate CC, etc). Therefore Lucian must make a choice - attempt to get a round of spells and passive procs off in order to help his team win a fight, sacrificing his dash to do so, or attempt to deal his damage with pot-shot short range auto attacks, keeping his dash as a defensive spell. If he chooses option one, his team either A - wins the fight completely, or B - he gets insta-bursted in response to being too aggressive with his short range. If he chooses option two, his team either A - loses the fight because Lucian does not do enough damage, or B - manages to scrape out a win, but most likely is not able to pull a clean ace because of the lack of consistent all in damage, which may lead to an ineffective attempt to take some objectives.

In these scenarios, Lucian's kit creates an highly subjective, 50/50 shot at winning. In comparison, a Jinx, Draven, or Corki have the tools to stay safe AND deal consistent damage that is much higher than that of Lucian, leading to much higher odds of winning a teamfight (ADC survives longer, ADC gets off more auto attacks, ADC does more damage as result, team wins fight more often). Therefore, what is the point of picking Lucian?

There is literally none, aside from comfort. I have around 160 games on Lucian alone in ranked this season. I say this simply to let you know that I know what I'm talking about. He is by far my favorite and most played champion, merely because I love his kit and his aesthetics. By no means do I feel he is stronger than a Corki, a Jinx, or a Vayne, and everyone would agree with me on those points. However, I still manage to beat those champions in lanes and in games... But that is simply from an expansive knowledge of the champion, his kit, and the match-ups. He can effectively do the job of an AD Carry, and he can carry games with proper positioning and knowledge of how to effectively use his damage. But that is an attribute of virtually ANY AD Carry. The issue is that if Lucian falls behind at all, his team will lose the game. He cannot compete with a Jinx, a Vayne, or virtually any AD Carry if he is not ahead of or even with them. In contrast, Jinx, Vayne, Tristana, Twitch, and etc can all fall behind and be completely useless only to come back and delete everyone with one to three auto-attacks. In addition to this, they have longer range, some have tower siege potential (Jinx, Trist), some have stealth and peel, and they ALL have more damage. So Lucian needs to be given something supplemental to level the playing field.

Droogzy2 votes

{quoted}

No he does not.

Yes he does, he's literally the worst ADC to choose right now. I'm a terrible ADC, but give me any ADC into Lucian, I will pretty much win every time.

He brings nothing to the table anymore. Need someone to be mobile in teamfights? Vayne does that better, not only can she dash, but she can go invisible simultaneously with a 90 MS steroid.

Need a lane bully? Graves does that better.

Need a generalist ADC? Sivir. Even Miss Fortune does that better than Lucian for Christ sakes.

He. Literally. Does. Nothing.

3TWarrior1 votes

fairly sure Ashe is the worst unless she's ultra fed

Zorae421 votes

Nah, even if she's terrible she can at least provide some utility with her ult and hawkshot, Lucian doesn't even have that.

I'd say Varus who hits as hard as Lucian late game (as in not at all) and has none of his safety. But at least you can take him mid as an AD caster and be useful.

There's also Twitch. Who is ridiculous late game if fed. But unlike Vayne/Jinx he doesn't get that way just by playing that long. If you're 0/4 as Twitch, then you're pretty awful.

Droogzy1 votes

{quoted}

fairly sure Ashe is the worst unless she's ultra fed

She can permaslow and kite for days, she's pretty damn strong with the right team composition around her.

Zone of Endless3 votes

It's the double TP. Make an agrressive play bot lane and chances are a TP is coming. What good is a lane bully in a 3v3/3v2 when you have tanks peeling for the hyper carry that pump out reliable DPS.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

My main issue with ADCs is that hypercarries like Vayne, Tristana, and Jinx can feed all they want but as soon as they hit late game they'll blow you up extremely fast. That and for some reason all hypercarries are starting to become really safe and strong early game. Jinx can harass people to no ends if they don't outrange her, Vayne can out-duel all but a handful of ADCs (Miss Fortune and Ashe I believe) early game, and Tristana with her jump, knock back, and pushing power is really safe.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

The reason lane bullies are weak is not because they were nerfed, it's because their itemization was changed. The Bloodthirster used to be an amazing mid-game power spike item and Vampiric Scepter used to not be complete shit.

Both of these have changed, with Bloodthirster losing a chunk of its offensive power while granting more lifesteal (not relevant to lane bullies who rely on skills to poke and deal damage) and a shield that scales off auto attacks only.

Solution? BT needs to grant physical amp, similar to the Elixir of Wrath, but it needs to apply a debuff that increases damage dealt to you by 30% for 3 seconds after you've healed from it. That way, marksmen who auto attack primarily cannot abuse the vamp properly, because they get punished, while long range poke bullies like Ezreal, Caitlyn and Varus can thrive off these changes.

Riot has also stated they revamped Essence Reaver and made it more attractive to ratio carries. We will have to see if they are correct.

If itemization shifts in such a way that BT once again becomes as powerful to rush as Infinity Edge, then that will be half the battle. The other half is bringing poke supports up to a level that allows them to actually beat all-in supports.

That will never happen, so auto attack carries will always be stronger than lane bullies.

Doomster1 votes

I feel like a big reason why the hyper carry adc's are back in favor is also due to the support meta shifting to a point where all-in's or disengage are popular. Typical poke supports (lulu, sona, zyra, etc) are not in favor right now and that is partly due to the amount of items supports can buy early. It used to be the case where if you wanted sustain you were unable to buy a core item (doran's item +pot, or 3 health and mana pots and wards). I think a simple change would be to find something in the utility tree to replace the +40g skill and possibly raising the starting cost of the beginning support items. Poke has been seen as largely ineffective due to the amount of regen on supports due to consumables as usually poke wars just make the support chug 2 pots and then continue like nothing happened. Poke used to be extremely viable because if you could poke out the support in lane you could zone out the adc more easily. Just a thought from a support main.

ShatoSummoner1 votes

True fact. Braum is one of the best supports for a hyper carry, and if you look right now he is fairly popular.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I agree with this. Poke is also weakened significantly by the fact that your all-in and tanky supports usually start item 3302, which gives them tankiness and sustain in addition to their usually pretty decent CC. Poke supports cannot sustain their ADC at all, and their starting item item 3303 is really kind of meh.

Darth Pixy Misa1 votes

I hope in the Ad item pass over they take this into consideration, then Change IE and BT.

IE should be reverted back to 70ad, 20% crit, Critical strikes deal 250%, 3830 BT should be changed to 85ad, 20% lifesteal, life steal overheal shield, 3500

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