I'd love to be able to include support as my secondary role without always getting it.
Giving guaranteed roles to people who recently played support is a band-aid fix. Clearly, the community as a whole dislikes playing a role with gimped XP/Gold.
Officer Zyra 4 votesfrom what i under stand we are getting a tank or support class update next. Also i think there is an updated 
on the pbe right now.
50000000000000001 votesSupport update should really just be Vanguard (engage tank) update or Warden (peel tank) update. Enchanters are already pretty varied each with good strategic niche, imo.
chipndip12 votesNo they aren't. The only competitively viable ones are Bard, Karma, and Nami. The only ones with kits that aren't entirely centered around one button, save ult, are Bard, Karma, and Nami. The only enchanters that are well designed are Bard, Karma, and Nami. All the other ones are insanely toxic if they're good...or they're Zilean and he's got his little corner.
50000000000000001 voteshttp://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Support&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend Unless we're talking solely about LCS, there are a lot of viable (near or above 50% winrate) enchanter supports right now in high elo.
Besides, my point was that each enchanter has its niche, not that they're all viable or strong. There are some generalists, of course (Sona, Karma, and Nami, I'd say), but most have their niche. Janna is disengage anti-diver/assassin support, Zilean has a revive and faster XP gain, Morgana has black shield and one of the longest CC on a basic ability as well as multi target stun on ult, Bard is the roaming support with unique R and team mobility spell, Lulu has good lockdown and unique ultimate that can be used to save carries or help lock down enemies, and Ivern (I think he's an enchanter?) is a jungler who can make brush. Oh, and Soraka has the global heal and instant silence. Their purposes are pretty varied, and to make champion roster more varied is the purpose of class update. Enchanters don't need a class update. Other supports do.
chipndip11 voteshttp://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Support&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend Unless we're talking solely about LCS, there are a lot of viable (near or above 50% winrate) enchanter supports right now in high elo.
Besides, my point was that each enchanter has its niche, not that they're all viable or strong.
And this is where your argument ends. What's the point of a niche if it's worth jack crap? For example, Jhin's ult could have possibly been a global one-hit kill, but to make it balanced in the game, it was so easy to dodge it rarely landed (from what I remember of the story). Jhin's niche with this in mind could have been "best anti-tank in the game" since his ult would auto-kill anyone it hit regardless of their defenses, but if this purpose in the game is designed in a way that it's unrewarding garbage, why bother with it? Apply this to every enchanter that has to be forced down in the dirt because they're all simple 1-dimensional champs. The support role needs real effort put into it, not these mini reworks that make Leona so bad I can confidently play squishies into her now.
Side note: Riot themselves stated that support win rates inflate a bit even when they aren't that great because they get to tag along with op champs from other lanes.
50000000000000001 votesSona, Janna, Soraka, and Zilean are all performing well, and better than Nami, Karma, and Bard in high elos. Very few enchanter supports are actually weak. And weak ones can be buffed without a class update, no?
chipndip13 votesBecause they take advantage of the lack of organization in solo queue, not because they're actually strong picks. When Sona had a 60% win rate in solo queue, she had a 30% pros win rate. Just apply that logic to the other ones. Bard and Nami have significant difficulty curves and proper reward as you reach them...assuming everyone's on the same page. Seeing how this is a team game, that's sort of the point. The other ones are simpler champs that can do well in a solo queue environment seeing how they just do one or two things regardless of the situation. Doesn't mean they're well designed champs, and that's why they're prone to getting repeat nerfed whenever they show up in the pro scene...because they're straight obnoxious.
A class update isn't asking for a buff. It's asking to take what they did for Nami and Bard and apply it to the other enchanters. Flesh out what they do instead of diddling a button for 40 minutes.
TNHA Baritone1 votesLets not forget that Karma still is not supposed to be a shield bot. I'm still waiting for Riot to fix her problems that Meddler gave aknowledgement to.
And she only came out since Alistar, Thresh, etc fell out of meta and there's a bunch of squishier supports.
Drackolus1 votesSome item changes and the ali rework. Removal of locket aura and reduction of other item costs, so that's nice. More interesting items and more of them.
TheHappyReaperz3 votesCame here expecting to find a thread on how Support's aren't fun or aren't viable. Instead it's "Buff Supports so more people play them". Supports have a definitive playstyle. Their playstyle attracts certain types of players, who have certain ways they play. Buffing supports won't make more people play them. It'll make the support mains happier, I guess, maybe. However, odds are it would ruin the game. The point of a duo lane is that xp and gold are shared. If that mechanic was removed, it would increase the risk massively for ganks, Bot turrets would fall so fast, and tanky CC supports would drop out of play faster than an icecream cone in the hands of a 2 year old. Not only that, but jg roles could vanish as well. Why jg when you can have two top laners?
Anidan1 votessweet jesus, we could have meta variety?!
Troy2426212 votesCame here expecting to find a thread on how Support's aren't fun or aren't viable. Instead it's "Buff Supports so more people play them". Supports have a definitive playstyle. Their playstyle attracts certain types of players, who have certain ways they play. Buffing supports won't make more people play them. It'll make the support mains happier, I guess, maybe. However, odds are it would ruin the game. The point of a duo lane is that xp and gold are shared. If that mechanic was removed, it would increase the risk massively for ganks, Bot turrets would fall so fast, and tanky CC supports would drop out of play faster than an icecream cone in the hands of a 2 year old. Not only that, but jg roles could vanish as well. Why jg when you can have two top laners?
I didn't say flat buff, I said update. The fact that they're gold/XP gimped exasperates the problem.
Marshbouy2 votesThe gold and EXP issues are much deeper set than just a support update. Players used to run gold gen runes almost every game on support, until the games snowballed harder and ended faster they became less worth it than raw stats. The EXP problem began with the removal of the support EXP mastery in the mastery update.
These issues cannot be easily fixed without possibly and accidentally causing wide issues with the meta
Troy2426214 votesThe gold and EXP issues are much deeper set than just a support update. Players used to run gold gen runes almost every game on support, until the games snowballed harder and ended faster they became less worth it than raw stats. The EXP problem began with the removal of the support EXP mastery in the mastery update.
These issues cannot be easily fixed without possibly and accidentally causing wide issues with the meta
Considering how few people are inclined to support, I'd argue the transition is worth it.
Marshbouy2 votesConsidering the massive balance issues that could result from the changes and plenty of people are playing support anyway, it's not worth it.
Ratbert3 votesYou mean the massive issues that happen basically every class-wide rework and preseason?
It's worth it when 1/5th of all players basically get gimped by numbers which, ironically only affects them this much because of the support rework where everyone got "utility" ratios.
Marshbouy2 votesNo. issues like support/adc top and bot if the items are too good. Duo top both running relic shield, ETC.
It's worth it to what? Have queue times be 30 seconds shorter than the 11 minutes they already are?
Ratbert2 votesIf they pick adc top and bot they won't have a jungler, which is an enormously valuable thing. Why do you think tri-lane doesn't exist in LoL? Besides, the problems with supports are more about falling behind after laning, so wouldn't you think that the solutions would target mid-game power instead of breaking laning?
If the items are too good, remove them and reintroduce gp5s (maybe even exp5s) which will benefit the support more than anyone else, preventing fringe cases like double relic. Besides, who said anything about buffing items? There are numerous ways to rework besides straight number buffs.
Marshbouy1 votesYou clearly weren't there on the release of relic shield.
I don't even know what you are talking about with the gp5
A lot of people have talked about buffing items. Especially support starter items.
besides straight number buffs
when did i say straight number buffs?
Ratbert1 votesReally? They picked 2 adcs and 2 supports? I truly must have missed it then. They must have hotfixed it anyways. Any massive balance changes like that will last probably a week tops.
I did not realize a lot of people were talking about starter items, only that supports face exp and gold problems, which is why I talked about gp5s.
Marshbouy2 votesDuo top was meta before they mega nerfed it.
GP5 whats?
Look dude, i play support frequently. I deal with these issues too. It's the fault of the mastery system update because it took away gp10 and xpp10 for supports and just about everything else in the support tree.
Just going "we want buffs" isn't going to do much.
Ratbert1 votesitems and runes. runes just suck and items feel like you're forced to get that one for your specific champ instead of making choices.
I don't want buffs, but riot to either make supports less dependent on gold/exp or give them some sources of gold/exp besides the support item you're basically forced to buy now.
Marshbouy1 votesGiving gp5 and xpp5 runes will make them too accesssible and they might even end up on other lanes if they were good enough. Runes are totally filled with choices! IDK WTF you are talking about.
What you are asking for are buffs. Making them any less gold dependent will result in them abusing laning or jungling roles, they are already incredibly gold independent.
1wolfpack2 votesthey should make it if you choose fill you dont get the same role 3X in a row or something similar.
DemoGuide2 votesI believe its the item issue. I personally hate rushing sightstone, and usually build it as my second/third item. I like getting items for actual supporting first. But the warding meta is too strong, and Mark of Season 1 that supports are wardbots is still exist. Limiting amount of wards placed didn't worked at all.
HazyCloud71 votesThey have to have gimped gold, their items are cheaper and if they were to have equal gold as their laners carry picks like Velkoz and Brand super oppressive. I mean Brand support is already really annoying, but imagine if he had access to the same gold as mid lane Brand? Supports are getting a lot of love in the upcoming pre-season patch. 7-8 of their items received price reductions, Mikhaeils Crucible's new active is better, Redemption & Knight of Vow are being introduced which both look like AMAZING items.
As far as class updates go, Bruisers/Divers need it more. Support will always be the least popular role because ultimately the goal of the support is to enable their team to succeed, and most (not all obviously) people would rather be in a position to enable themselves to succeed and transition their success to the rest of their team afterwards. It's often a thankless role, and a very important one but that's the truth to the matter. That isn't to say riot can't make support more enjoyable to play, but it will always be the least popular.
Verdade1 votesIm support VK main with 63% ranked win rate, and i think he's ALREADY stronger than ADC he "supports". Any increase to XP or gold gained will totally break him.
But hey, same goes for almost every support. Sure they don't have as much raw power as Vel'koz, but "concealed" power is power nontheless.
HazyCloud71 votesI agree completely. The idea of being able to take a carry mage and get equal or near the gold of your mid/top laner/adc is just totally ridiculous. If that's the reason someone doesn't want to play support, it's not the role for them.
Better way to combat the issue is to reduce item prices, and riot has done that on the PBE. A lot of supports will have item builds that are 400-500 gold cheaper, which is pretty big considering how cheap the items already are on live.
I also think adding an item for pink wards (soon to be control wards) would be pretty helpful to take pressure off of the supports to control vision. 6 slots just doesn't cut it as you edge closer to mid game. If I have 3 complete items + 2 components for item with high combine cost + boots as a midlaner I'm suddenly in a position where I can't buy pinks even though I'm still ~6000-7000 gold away from full build.
Verdade1 votesOn the contrary, mage support is pretty healthy and balanced atm.
Brand sitting at 51.76% win rate and 6.31% play rate Zyra 51.2% win rate, 11.21% play rate Vel'koz 49.99% win rate, 2.38% play rate
All three counter tank supports and they can get into carry-like late game. Their major weakness is jungle pressure and dives, as they are squishy and immobile. They are much less toxic to play against than Soraka or Blitz. Oh and they rely on skill shots to do their thing, meaning they can be outplayed as they aren't balls of stats.
You could divide rest of supports into three groups: Disruptors (Blitz, Thresh, Alistar) Protectors (Braum, Soraka, Taric) Enhancers (Sona, Janna, Nami)
What we need is to gut Disruptors damage (it's ridiculous how much base dmg Blitz or Thresh has) and give them increased CDR so they aren't so feast or famine (Blitz missed hook? GG useless for next 10s). Im talking about increasing CDR cap to 60% or more. They should be tanky CCbots without damage... Protectors are fine most of the time, but we need to remove passive gameplay element from them. This is especially for Soraka and Taric, where they can just chill in brush and afk unless something happens. Enhancers need much lower utility bases (Janna weaker shields, Sona less MS...) and hugely improved scaling on utility. I wouldn't have problem with Janna having shield absorbing 1.5-2k damage late-game if it has decent CD. Also love taps on their damage scaling, Sona feels like assassin sometimes.
HazyCloud71 votesWho said they weren't balanced and healthy? I'm speaking in terms of hypotheticals. If they were to have the same gold that their laners get.
Not a fan of the cdr idea. Blitz/Thresh should be punished heavily for missing a hook. Because if they land it, they can chain into the rest of their kit and you just get CC locked. Knock up into silence, or stun into flay into slow. Janna shield absorbing 1.5 - 2k? I think I'm gonna puke. Might as well remove burst mages and assassins from the game if you want to do that. As if she wasn't freelo already.
Verdade1 votesOkay, extra CDR would be painful to balance, but take a look at this:
Blitz has 700 BASE DAMAGE with QER at level 6, that's just ridiculous. And it's before runes/masteries/thunderlords! By gutting (or completely removing damage from some abilities) they could get much less "feast or famine". If Blitz misses hook he's useless for 20 seconds. If he hits hook its guaranteed kill mostly due to his damage (especially in laning phase). What if his hook had 50% of its CD refunded if he fails to grab something, but his grab doesn't do damage anymore? What if his ult dealt 0 damage to champions but had 0.5/1/1.5s GROUNDED instead? It kinda makes sense, static field magnetizing you to earth, making you unable to lift off for a while.
As for Janna - yes. Her current shield is 240+0.7AP with 10s CD. If we made it 200+1.5AP with 30 second cooldown, wouldn't it be much healthier? This way Janna has to think before using shield, as its long CD creates window for enemy counterplay. To compensate, it's ridiculously powerful and it scales with AP instead of just having high bases, which means Janna goes either full AP (gets blown up easily) or supportish/tanky (weaker shields). If she needed some way to decrease her CD on shield, she could always get a mechanic that decreases E's cooldown by doing something offensive to enforce active play
Leona is pretty healthy atm, but it would be lovely if we moved more of her up-front damage to her passive.
Thresh could get UTILITY scaling with his souls, something like: W refunds CD and mana for every soul gathered by it, decrease base shield, improve bonus shield from souls (2-3x more?). Also, imagine this "If Thresh gathers X souls he weaves net out of them. His Q is now cone (or ground targeted AOE), pulling ALL ENEMIES HIT towards him. He can reactivate it to pull towards enemy champions hit.
HazyCloud71 votesI'm having nightmares at the thought of a Janna throwing out a 150% AP ratio shield onto a Vayne, no thanks on that, or onto a Zac with the new courage of the colossus keystone. He'd have like well over 6500 effective health
I will say I agree that Blitz/Supports do too much damage though.
6Sfool1 votesCan someone explain that guaranteed role thing? I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, since you always get one of your chosen roles anyway (unless that is different in ranked, I don't play it).
morris11 votesWhen you're high elo or queueing during less crowded hours you usually get auto filled (assigned a role that you didn't choose = support) so people get into matches faster. After playing a game of being auto filled, you won't be auto filled again for the next 2 or 3 matches.
FourVsFive1 votesI hope support dont become popular makes it very easy when getting the same role each game :)
Colgate Minuette1 votesThe reason people don't want to play support is not because of lack of gold, or lack of XP.
It's all about interest. The people who play support have a mental issue that can only be sated by playing that role.
It's seriously about personality not about stats.
I've never heard a support main complain about not getting enough gold or XP. I've never seen them actually notice either I know I didn't really notice how badly I was being shorted until really late in my support career. (Like 1000 games in)
IDGAF that I'm shorted in gold and XP. I can kill you either way doesn't matter how much gold or XP I have.
It Hertz When IP2 votes[{quoted}](name=Colgate Minuette,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OVfb7qp2,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-10-30T06:42:20.335+0000)
The people who play support have a mental issue
..................wat.
Colgate Minuette1 votes[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OVfb7qp2,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-10-30T12:54:16.182+0000)
..................wat.
It's true. Mental issues all around.
Support mains have mental disabilities that allow them to enjoy the role. Not necessarily a BAD disability, but a disability none the less.
It Hertz When IP1 votes....you're literally claiming that everyone who plays support is mentally disabled. And you seem to genuinely believe it, not just saying it as an insult...
No wonder the world thinks Americans are idiots. I'm out. I'm off to the UK.
Colgate Minuette1 votes[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OVfb7qp2,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T20:52:15.929+0000)
....you're literally claiming that everyone who plays support is mentally disabled. And you seem to genuinely believe it, not just saying it as an insult...
No wonder the world thinks Americans are idiots. I'm out. I'm off to the UK.
This %%%%%
Did you even bother looking at my account?
158,000 mastery points
123,000 mastery points
64,000 mastery points
60,000 mastery points
47,000 mastery points (But 1 S rank away from level 7 mastery)
I -AM- a support main. It's the only role I'm good at, and that's why I'm mentioning personality as a basis to play the role.
My main point is that anyone who enjoys playing support, enjoys it because they have a specific personality type or have a specific play style that allows them to enjoy the role.
So I joke by saying it's a mental disability. Cause it's funny to suggest that the personality or mindset required to be a hardcore support main is actually just a disability deep seeded in the persons mind.
Ralanr1 votesAfter Vanguards and Divers I'll be fine with any other classes getting an update.
CoffeeDave1 votesIt maybe just me, but maybe no one has gotten support 'right' in video games? I can think of all of the games in each genre and platform and it seems support is always the least popular role. WoW, League, Overwatch, you name it and support isn't that popular.
Rozzeta1 votesWe already had one. They reworked Taric, made Sona a machine gun, increased mana regen, and called it a day.
I'd like to argue that supports are fine as they are, but if things like Zyra and reworked Karma are preferred over Soraka and Janna, then we have a problem.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesBut who to update?
Thresh just needs his inf scaling armor removed for base armor+armor per level and his E's passive moved to be his normal passive.
But otherwise who really needs updating? Every support is working well in their role.
Alistar's update makes sense since all he did was spam heal anytime it was up and really didn't care about his passive.
But I just don't see how anyone else needs an update the previous one didn't already fix.
All there could be are items which is already happening.
As for the exp all rito simply has to do is add a new effect to sightstone: If you're near an ally a higher level than you, gain 20-42 exp(Based on level). Would also be great if warding+trinket range was increased by 15% with sightstone. But sightstone is when supports start losing exp due to wanting to ward.
Irelia Bot1 votesThey are adding/changing support items and supports already have huge differences in how they play which is what riot's target for the marksmen update was and what it sounds like will be the plan for the divers.
Support does not need a class update and you are not giving any suggestions that would make them popular for more then a few weeks.
SwiftKitten881 votesi honestly agree, the feature that guarentee you one of your preferred roles is great, but when my second favorite role IS support is IS one of my preferred roles.. so i STILL always get it instead of my main role.
Hige1 votesthere's a big issue with the Support role and that's the amount of experience they receive... If Riot decided to add something that supports could use to increase the amount of exp they received, champions that aren't "supportive" would rise in popularity and would push real supports out of the role... this is huge... the reason why there isn't something as crazy a Sivir support is because she's more dependent on gold/exp than say Sona.
Mf support exists because her utility and damage isn't specifically level/gold constrained, love tap increases your dmg from lvl 1, E procs thunderlord's and spellthief's at crazy range and R procs grievous wounds plus shreds armor with a black cleaver, not to mention that she has quite the AP ratios.
Now what about an objective in the map that could be only affected by enchanters buffs? like, a heal or a shield or a buff... well... this is an interesting approach but then... Lee Sin has a shield, Leona doesn't have anything really supportive in her kit, Alistar is loosing his inmediate heal, Ezreal has an AS buff... see what I'm getting at? the support role doesn't really have something that defines it aside from "it doesn't need that much gold to scale", adding an objective that needs to be healed/shield/buffed would open the door for better supports than some enchanters/vanguards and we are back at the first point again :S
it's seriously tricky
Vanjie1 votesthey won't be getting to it until after the diver, juggernaut, and then a general tank update. riot doesn't care about supports. riot cares about ekko and ryze 7 times.
