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Quinn - What on earth does Riot want from her?

Kloqdq·Feb 24, 2017·3 votes·984 views

So I have been wondering for a long time now but what is Riot's actual thoughts on Quinn? She is a pretty conflicting champion when you see everything laid out on the table. Unlike some cases where having a lot in a kit can be super strong, Azir, Taliyah, etc., Quinn is weird as she isn't really all that strong but she has this weird artificial strength. Unlike those champions, she is super strong at early levels and making roams early but if people group or the game starts getting longer she is practically useless. She is a diver in a lot of ways, especially when you think about the old kit, but the new one is this weird roaming diver that isn't fully fleshed out.

So what is that Riot actual wants from Quinn? As it stands she is basically a bunch of champions but just a worse version of them. She is only strong because of her Ult, a problem that didn't used to exist mind you. Otherwise she is a rather weak champion that suffers from a lack of focus. Is she meant to be a marksman? A diver? A scout? A roamer? A assassin? What on earth is her role and does Riot have any plans for her other than nerfing her. Frankly, the current version of Quinn is worse than the old version when trying to be unique. The flow and feel of the champion is also rather lackluster. The ult is just not very good and it hurts the rest of the kit as it's not balanced. It's not like Talon's E where there is a cooldown. Old Quinn didn't have this issue because of the Ult working in a similar fashion BUT having a clear period of weakness and power.

This is all coming from a old Quinn player and my friend, a Quinn main since her release almost.

6 Comments

Valor BotFeb 24, 20173 votes

I made a thread recently that dealt with this a bit. My conclusions were as follows (feel free to agree/disagree with me as you see fit, I love discussions about Quinn):

Quinn cannot be healthy as the premiere roamer of her class because she currently functions more as an Assassin than a Marksman, which technically makes her "the roaming Assassin," which leads to Talon being uncompetitive whenever she is strong (Talon's intended niche is "the roaming Assassin," so if Quinn can do this better than he can, then... why pick Talon?)
Quinn should not be the premiere Marksman-Assassin because that niche was relegated to Twitch long before Quinn, and the community (as well as Riot) seems to agree it belongs to him

Possible solutions:

Quinn could theoretically be a more unique and interesting character as a Marksman-Diver hybrid. No other champion in the game holds this classification to date. Since she already lacks a means of escape post-kill, it seems fitting given her current mechanics. However, she would need less assassin-like burst and more single-target threat via CC, as well as some form of durability (i.e. tanky stats or perhaps CC immunity of some sort) to be able to perform this role. Her niche within the class would be "roaming Diver."

Alternatively,

Quinn's Marksman elements could be dramatically toned down such that she ends up firmly within the Assassin class instead, and then repurposed to serve a different strategic niche besides "premiere roamer" in order to allow Talon to fill that space. Personally, I think "vision Assassin" could work very well for Quinn, given her scout/falconer theme. Likewise, there are no Assassins in the game who specialize in providing vision-based utility as far as I'm aware, so she would be unique within her class. Really like this approach over the other one since it pairs so well with her character, but that's not to say I couldn't be convinced otherwise.

Alternatively,

Make her a 'true' Marksman by way of moving her out of the Assassin space completely, or toning down her Assassin-like elements such that she functions more as a traditional Marksman than she does currently. Not a terribly big fan of this idea, and I don't think other Quinn players would be either. Removing Quinn's ability to aggressively invade enemy territory, duel the big bad guys one-on-one, and pose a significant threat to the back line is part of what makes her so cool as a champion.

There may be other solutions I'm not thinking of besides these, of course. Would love to hear them if you do have any.

TenshouSNKFeb 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OQqJQ7r0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-24T04:43:15.648+0000)

I made a thread recently that dealt with this a bit. My conclusions were as follows (feel free to agree/disagree with me as you see fit, I love discussions about Quinn):

Quinn cannot be healthy as the premiere roamer of her class because she currently functions more as an Assassin than a Marksman, which technically makes her "the roaming Assassin," which leads to Talon being uncompetitive whenever she is strong (Talon's intended niche is "the roaming Assassin," so if Quinn can do this better than he can, then... why pick Talon?)

Quinn should not be the premiere Marksman-Assassin because that niche was relegated to Twitch long before Quinn, and the community (as well as Riot) seems to agree it belongs to him

Possible solutions:

Quinn could theoretically be a more unique and interesting character as a Marksman-Diver hybrid. No other champion in the game holds this classification to date. Since she already lacks a means of escape post-kill, it seems fitting given her current mechanics. However, she would need less assassin-like burst and more single-target threat via CC, as well as some form of durability (i.e. tanky stats or perhaps CC immunity of some sort) to be able to perform this role. Her niche within the class would be "roaming Diver."

Alternatively,

Quinn's Marksman elements could be dramatically toned down such that she ends up firmly within the Assassin class instead, and then repurposed to serve a different strategic niche besides "premiere roamer" in order to allow Talon to fill that space. Personally, I think "vision Assassin" could work very well for Quinn, given her scout/falconer theme. Likewise, there are no Assassins in the game who specialize in providing vision-based utility as far as I'm aware, so she would be unique within her class. Really like this approach over the other one since it pairs so well with her character, but that's not to say I couldn't be convinced otherwise.

Alternatively,

Make her a 'true' Marksman by way of moving her out of the Assassin space completely, or toning down her Assassin-like elements such that she functions more as a traditional Marksman than she does currently. Not a terribly big fan of this idea, and I don't think other Quinn players would be either. Removing Quinn's ability to aggressively invade enemy territory, duel the big bad guys one-on-one, and pose a significant threat to the back line is part of what makes her so cool as a champion.

There may be other solutions I'm not thinking of besides these, of course. Would love to hear them if you do have any.

why not rework into an adc botlane?

SaltyKrackaFeb 24, 20171 votes

That's what she was originally supposed to be.

It didn't work well.

KloqdqMar 20, 20171 votes

The idea of Marksman-Diver is what I think should really be focused on. Divers inherently carry assassin-esk elements but find a unique space for themselves from those assassins. But as it stands her kit is too far divided among itself as it struggles to find the imagine of the Tag-Team Scouts. That's where a lot of the issues I believe really stem from. Riot wants these two to be 1 champions like Kled and Skaarl but Quinn and Valour miss the mark as they act awkwardly together. In a way, One should "scout" while the other "attacks" creating a special game-play pattern where the two work together almost seamlessly. That doesn't happen however with awkward game-play patterns that just rip the two apart, have strange lag times and never really flow together like the intended imagine.

Finding a pattern in her gameplay and abilities that combine the two to become one force is what Riot needs to do. The old version of Quinn somewhat did this but since the rework, they managed to move further away from the original idea and are now lost as to what they should do. At this point she is almost as bad as Aatrox, just trying to be something else but not knowing how.

Emmy Cha0sMar 20, 20171 votes

According to Rito, Quinn is supposed to be an ADC, but this has NEVER been viable. At 475 range, she's outclassed by literally every ADC, her kit inherently does poorly against ranged characters in general and her only winning lane in bot is against Sivir, who's notoriously bad against duelists regardless. However, Quinn is only a duelist pre-6, due to Meddler removing Valor from the game.

Speaking of the 5.22 "marksman" dumpstering, Meddler said that their new vision for Quinn is as an understatted character without an ultimate, that has to outnumber her opponents to win a fight. Meddler specifically stated, they heavily nerfed her stats and abilities, alongside removing her ultimate so that Quinn is unable to 1v1 opponents post-6, unless she's ahead in items. Constantly I'm seeing Quinns in my game who don't understand this, they cheese a few kills early then proceed to feed non-stop when they reach around level 11 or such and our opponents begin have rank 2 ultimates that Quinn, as a character without an ult, cannot compete against. I constantly see her jumping the enemy ADC alone, die alone and starting spamming the chat with confusion about how they lost.

Quinn's original design was much closer to a dive-champion, like Irelia or Jax. That sort of bruiser-assassin type of deal and was played Top and Mid as such. Rather than emphasizing this design further, Rito close-mindedly decided to destroy this identity and turn her into a fucking mess.

Her damage is too low to be a REAL assassin, she only works as one now because Lethality. She doesn't work as a bruiser anymore, because Valor was removed from the game. Quinn is a character with a lost identity and once assassin items stop being broken, Quinn will stop being playable yet again.

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