So i was looking at Ashe's popularity today...

Rikari·Dec 4, 2014·8 votes·1,428 views

Ashe (The Frost Archer) - Champions - League of Legends

I hear people say that is fine as she is,(not this meta obv) and that she is more popular in high elo. So I finally looked at her charts. Only Ranked Queue's matter though as you would practice in normals.

Bronze had a ranked pick rate of 16.7%,so i was thinking Gold+ would go into 25-35% Gold through Challenger though,to my surprise,has pick rates as low as 0.92%. Win ratios cant be accurate with THAT popularity. Not to mention the newest adc Literally deletes her kit,especially with or . IDK what to say.

40 Comments

FantasySniperDec 4, 20144 votes

Her kit is semi-toxic and can't really be allowed to be any more powerful than it is.

I really hope they revamp her kit someday.

JefftiffyDec 4, 20143 votes

Oh they would but the already made Ashe 2.0: Kalista . She is everything Ashe could have been in a rework.

AreDec 4, 20146 votes

Oh they would but the already made Ashe 2.0: . She is everything Ashe could have been in a rework.

They're not alike in any way.

AspynnDec 4, 20142 votes

He's just talking about the way the kite. Back before everyone got dashes, Ashe could kite just about anyone pretty solidly, albeit not immune, she could hardly be touched by melees. Now Kalista cannot be touched by anyone without a dash of some sort

WheatloafDec 4, 20142 votes

I have found that DrMundo disagrees.

tau43Dec 4, 20142 votes

Aatrox as well.

JunkοDec 4, 20142 votes

As somebody who has spammed Kalista for a while now: Buy a Omen or Frozen Heart, she is completely useless once you get these items...

or don't, that's good for me

Meep ManDec 4, 20143 votes

Blitzcrank I don't go to you, YOU come to me. DrMundo R+Qs = Good Luck Rumble So I heard you don't like flames or harpoons Skarner If you can outrun this guy, you can outrun nearly anyone Taric Fabulous stuns Udyr Godyr

I went down the champion list and found only 7 melee champions without a dash of some sort that she could effectively outrun. Darius Darius could kill her too if he can burst her down while she is close to him from his pull.

Kuroi86Dec 4, 20141 votes

And here I thought all she needed was a passive rework. So what makes it toxic?

RikariDec 4, 20141 votes

She is an ADC with endless CC for one and the rest of her power budget is a Ranged stun which can last for up to 3.5 seconds with a low cooldown(Which no one can maximise often). Notice all are CC,no damage. Which ADC hesitates to duel Ashe anyway? item 3140 that ult.

Meep ManDec 4, 20141 votes

Ashe isn't really toxic. ADCs are supposed to be very bursty and have most of their power at any time. Ashe has to wait for her ultimate to get off cool down in order to gain an effective damage advantage on her opponent post-6.

Kuroi86Dec 4, 20141 votes

Quite honestly haven't met anyone that would ever hesitate to duel Ashe. Gotta wonder how Riot would rework the kit though to give keep it good utility but give it some power as well.

FantasySniperDec 5, 20141 votes

Most of her power budget goes into CC, which can be perpetually applied, so she's a huge threat if she can get on you. It's not the definition of toxicity, but that's why I said "semi".

Kuroi86Dec 5, 20141 votes

Sadly her CC has become what defines her. So how could Riot go about reworking that without ticking off nearly every Ashe main (all two of them).

FantasySniperDec 5, 20141 votes

Repurpose Hawkshot so it's capable of applying frost, lower the slow scaling, inject some power from her ultimate into the rest of her kit, have Volley benefit from criticals. It would increase her skill-cap, make her slow less harmful, and introduce a lot more synergy within her kit. It's what I want to happen. I don't know what Riot will do, they might try to attach more damage to her CC or just plain make her CC more "worthwhile". Basically, the balance forecast isn't easily observable at the moment.

Kuroi86Dec 6, 20141 votes

And AOE slow on Hawkshot? Perhaps trade off some of the slow scaling on Q for bonus towards another stat?

FantasySniperDec 6, 20141 votes

Maybe not AoE, but still.

"Another stat"? A steroid would be nice in her kit, but I can see simple on-hit magic damage going a long way, too.

Kuroi86Dec 6, 20142 votes

Well, Ashe already has a fairly high AS per lvl. Perhaps something synergizing with her passive. Grants her bonus damage based on stacks on her passive.

An on hit magic damage could work too. Though that is typically scaled through AP yes? Oh Geez... the Ryze of AP Ashe would be among us. o.0

FantasySniperDec 6, 20141 votes

AP Ashe sounds like something I can get behind. ^µ^

Kuroi86Dec 6, 20142 votes

item 3100 item 3089 item 3135 item 3020 item 3115 item 3153

Phoenix Kotori Dec 4, 20142 votes

>challenger >good statistical data size for any champion

pick one, it's best to ignore challenger, it's such a small pool of players that win rates and picks will always be rather warped.

She has 3-6% in gold to diamond which is moderate.

RoyaiChaosDec 4, 20142 votes

Here's a possible rework for her that I suggested a while back

But defending her, Ashe currently is very niche so I think she's fine with having a lower pick rate as long as her win ratio is okay.

QuephaDec 4, 20142 votes

total number of games played matters more than % when it comes to accuracy of statistics and ashe consistently has a positive winrate over more than enough games to be statistically significant.

ValheeruDec 4, 20141 votes

tell me about it i have been asking for a long time to make her up to the current adc standard

MattAkhavanDec 4, 20141 votes

Her popularity is only .92% in challenger. Among all ranked ques its's around 8% with a 53% winrate. 8% among all ranks is equal to over 1000 plays a day.

Additionally for those saying kalista is ashe 2.0, Kalista's winrate is 40% while ashes is 53%.

JefftiffyDec 4, 20142 votes

Give her 2 weeks. All the noob who don't know how to adc are pulling her WR down hard. Look at what happened to Yasuo.

JunkοDec 4, 20141 votes

Yasuo had a 39% winrate on release, man he was so UP

RikariDec 4, 20141 votes

Her popularity is only .92% in challenger. Among all ranked ques its's around 8% with a 53% winrate. 8% among all ranks is equal to over 1000 plays a day.

Additionally for those saying kalista is ashe 2.0, Kalista's winrate is 40% while ashes is 53%.

Okay,lets say this is for 10,000 games... Ashe would be picked 92 times,and of those 92 games,winning around 49 games...thats 49 games of 10,000.... 0.49% games are won with Ashe,never know if she was carried or not..

At the same time kalista was at 7.95% popularity,won 42.31% of her games,making her picked in 795 games and winning about 336 of those games,and we are still learning her.

Ashe looks like she has been here since season 1 and her kit is rather easy,no way we haven't learned to play her to a moderate level.

Ashe 49/10,000 games won Kalista 336/10,000 games won

not to mention in a 1v1 Kalista would completely control the battlefield.

LobodeDec 4, 20141 votes

Her popularity is only .92% in challenger. Among all ranked ques its's around 8% with a 53% winrate. 8% among all ranks is equal to over 1000 plays a day.

Additionally for those saying kalista is ashe 2.0, Kalista's winrate is 40% while ashes is 53%.

Okay,lets say this is for 10,000 games... Ashe would be picked 92 times,and of those 92 games,winning around 49 games...thats 49 games of 10,000.... 0.49% games are won with Ashe,never know if she was carried or not..

At the same time kalista was at 7.95% popularity,won 42.31% of her games,making her picked in 795 games and winning about 336 of those games,and we are still learning her.

Ashe looks like she has been here since season 1 and her kit is rather easy,no way we haven't learned to play her to a moderate level.

49/10,000 games won 336/10,000 games won

not to mention in a 1v1 Kalista would completely control the battlefield.

That is such BS, I bet you work in marketing or politics. You can only count the actual games she won or lost in. For the games she was played in she wins 53% of the time and Kalista wins a lot less frequently. So going by what we have if they were both played 10,000 times then ashe would win 5,300 times and Kalista wins 4,900 times. That is what the data shows. I can't believe you would even try to use such spin to confuse someone over champions in a game.

RikariDec 5, 20141 votes

lel more stats more accuracy what you have stated is that ashe's winrate will remain static in that tier,lol my first 4 games on ryze were all wins making his winrate 100% and now its 48.4% in 31 games. In this assassin/gap closer meta her win rate will drop for sure,if you doubt me,Vayne's winrate is 48% and Lucian's rate is 50%...and they are Vayne and Lucian. Oh and Urgot's win rate is also 43%(0.47% popularity) to Kalista's now 40% winrate(11.7% popularity), so Urgot > Kalista ? btw im an engineering student.

MattAkhavanDec 4, 20141 votes

I hear what you are saying, but this is just inflating numbers. Since you are focusing only on challenger ranked the numbers aren't anywhere close to 10000, in fact they aren't even close to 100 games a day.

** in challenger**

Ashe's win-rate is closer to 75%
Ashe is played 3-4 times a day
Kalista's win-rate is between 35-40%
Kalista is played 25-30 times a day

all ranks

Ashe's win-rate is 50-53% a day
Ashe is played 1100-1200 times a day
Kalista's win -rate is 40%
Kalista is played 1700-2000 times a day

According to your example since 10000 games is a satisfactory number of games to judge performance on Ashe still wins more games than kalista among almost all levels of play.

Sources:

Kalista Ashe

Meep ManDec 4, 20141 votes

We aren't talking about a 1v1 we are talking about overall viability. Also, your statistics aren't very accurate. A champion could be played only 100 games, but win all of them and be more OP than a champion with 10,000 games and won 50% of them for 5,000 wins.

MattAkhavanDec 4, 20141 votes

Actually kalista is probably one of the easier match ups for ashe honestly.

Meep ManDec 4, 20141 votes

Kalista would be OP... on paper. How many people just run up to an ADC, no mobility or surprises involved, and try to murder them? No one smart. (unless you are Olaf , then you have an excuse because Kalista counters him when he doesn't have item 3800 , item 3143 , item 3110 , or even item 3069 )

StarrowDec 4, 20141 votes

lol ashe has been trash for over 3 seasons.

BlaricusDec 4, 20141 votes

I personally hate laning against an ashe, but she isn't op or anything :P

SummonerSquidDec 4, 20141 votes

One of her biggest pitfalls is that she has no mobility, but makes up for that by having CC. They should change her E to give a movement speed bonus after casting. She would still be fairly immobile, but would be more up-to-par with other ADCs.

RikariDec 4, 20141 votes

Her kit has to be completely reworked imo, that buff you suggest would make her like kalista and making an E+R the Ultimate engage. Tristana Lucian Quinn Caitlyn Corki and to some extent Twitch would be unaffected by the E buff,though for once i'd like to see an OP S1 Champ like Ryze instead of new op'd releases Lucian Yasuo that are easy.

GundayMondayDec 4, 20141 votes

She's a niche pick. You pick her into enemy comps that don't have gap closers. Champs like Garen Evelynn Trundle Singed for example. Her slows make it so you can kite these guys forever.

Champs like that aren't popular right now in the meta, so Ashe isn't picked to counter them as much. That's all. If everyone started playing Nocturne Udyr Volibear in the jungle constantly, I bet you'd see a lot more of dat Ashe !

Meep ManDec 4, 20141 votes

Ashe Ashe does not need a rework. Play her and you will see she has her own disadvantages and advantages, each to the extreme. Ashe is very situational, but extremely powerful in the right situation. And then even in a bad situation she is still useful due to her powerful crowd control and passive one time burst from her passive and permaslow. Ashe is a great example of how a champion should be, which is powerful when fed but not useless when behind.