Thanks for giving me false hope Riot. Meanwhile LB is getting a 50 damage nerf at 1k AP while being able to 100-0 anybody in the game with base damages alone.
Riot forbid a immobile mage can 100-0, but a assassin mage with 2 mobility spells can do it just fine with no drawbacks and no frustrating laning phase.
DrCyanide16 votesThat's fine. Remember, we don't want more Q buffs (well, the range one will be nice), we want W to be more likely to hit a target.
A Superb Villain7 votesI agree.
Baleful Strike, especially since the PBE retains the increase in range after reverting the cooldown, is in an acceptable position. His Event Horizon now has a greater chance of catching targets, or trapping them at the very least. And while I would have preferred Riot reduce the ratio of his bonus enemy AP rather than Veigar's, Primordial Burst still lives up to its name.
Dark Matter requires tuning so it is not merely an environment hazard for the enemy team to watch with mild amusement, but something that can be relevant in a fight without relying on Event Horizon.
Thryale1 votesHere's my beef with the veig rework. He's being shoved towards a ranged poke/siege mage playstyle from his burst mage identity. And that is why I'm really hating these changes.
I primarily played veigar because he was reliable. He didn't require hyper reflexes or super delicate positioning and mechanics to perform well. He was literally the nasus of mages. Farm up, and destroy ppl. He was straight forward and simple to understand and learn, with some points of mastery on landing his stun.
Now, that's all out the window. His laning phase still sucks (which was the key reason he was allowed to have his late game dmg) but now, my success is reliant on my enemy's mistakes rather than my own skill with the champ.
So what do I do in that situation? Grab mana regen and spam spells from max distance hoping something lands.
Another problem is now, veig's W does 180 dmg less than his ult. The only time my ult will do anything more than that is if my opponents are building glass cannon ap. (which rarely ever happens anymore)
I want the reliability on veig's Q back, and I want veig's ult to actually have something on it that makes it worth the ult slot.
I want my single target burst mage back. not some spell slinging poke mage. We've got ziggs, xerath, and even a friggin syndra for that.
A Tall Joke2 votesyeah, to be honest, I don't see why a hyper carry needs a better laning phase. W should be land-able and his E should probably be given some sort of defensive utility against mobile champions. He'll be in a good spot at that point.
PickleBabah1 votesThis. People are getting so wound up about his E and Q, they forgot why W is the reason both of those spells even exist. Q - gains AP and compliments W damage to aid in its massive damage, E - helps guaranty a W. If W was more reliable, then no other nerfs to other abilities would be necessary. I suggest halving a good number of the values on his W, and then putting it on a charge system to make his burst less massive and allow him to have more decision making.
Reazale2 votesHis burst should be massive, BIGGER AND MORE RELIABLE THAN LEBLANCS!!!! WTF?!
PickleBabah1 votesIt can be, but that's not the point. The point is that the rest of his skills are restricted by the rest of his skills. Every skill is so powerful in tandem with another spell that it restricts the overall potential. The most potent spell when complimented by his other spell is Dark Matter.
Reazale1 votesStill most of Veigar combos result on less dmg than leblanc combos unless u hit some1 with like whut? 500ap? and against a target with that much ap Veigar only gets from his 80% enemy ap ratio a little more than the extra bases leblanc has. Leblanc spells are more powerful , alone or conbined. She also does more burst dmg , more reliable, not even taking into account the fact that she can ult 3 times in the time veigar ults ONCE, and her ult does more dmg against anyone that doesnt have a stupid amount of AP.
You might say that im comparing characters that are different , but both fill about the same role: BURST dmg, even tho Leblanc is an Assasin (should be less reliable and more unsafe for her risk) and Veigar is a mage (and as a burst mage he should be more reliable but still risky with less snowball potential), but as things are right now , picking Veigar is a really bad idea, and be the way they are handling him on the pve/ some of the ideas, might as well delete Veigar and put the ap stacking on Xerath...
Hakavay1 votesFine, make Veigar an Assassin vs. a mage and give him back his old stun... I always played him as an assassin, why else could I 100-0 people? Asssassin.
Reazale1 votesWe can all agree that the stun was too strong and that it was holding Veigar together, even if they did change it back (wont happen) it would still have to be changed at some point, i knew that when i started to main him. My biggest problem is the way it was handle, they gave us this SHIT (cos it isnt anything else) and called it a BUFF (really?). They should have handle it with a full rework but well , cant have Veigar support being good on Korea can we? no no no that would stop the flashy plays , so lets push a hug big ass nerf and half assed rework so we can remove Veigar from the map....fucking assholes.
junglerboy1612 votes"Cuz we can't have Veigar playable now can we! Imagine if he were popular!" Rito Logic.
Marinaras Trench1 votesI don't think you understand how scary a really strong pre-nerf veigar would be.(Not saying I agree, but just think about it)
alaskaneagle1 votesI don't think you understand how scary a really strong pre-nerf veigar would be.(Not saying I agree, but just think about it)
54367
as long as his stun is sh it he will never be scary or viable... you could make his q 100-0 people in one hit after 5 cs and he'd still be sh it.
Thryale1 votespre-nerf veigar would never be strong, simply due to the over abundance of assassins that'd chew him up and spit him out.
DeusVult3 votes
really has 4 mobility spells, since she can dash twice but then also go back for no cost and has an eternity to choose whether or not she wants to
Curling Veigar3 votesInb4 they revert the range buff too
In all seriousness, this is pretty ok because it opens up opportunities to buff his other skills (W mostly and maybe R?)
bad arcade kitty2 votes
you were strong long enough, veigar mainers
KaisadiIIa2 votes"Just kiddin' Veigar mains, your champion is still useless :3" —RIOT.
Silents4292 votesIf I recall the only thing Viegar players are pissed about is landing his Stun, don't complain about reverting something that is fine.
WukongMain1 votesyes get that freelo so, when lb is banned, you aren't skilled enough to play at the elo Leblanc's opness brought you too. and then u just feed, cause you're actually not good enough to be in that higher division this "op" champion brought you too.
Junkο6 votesI'll just be smart and actually stop playing when i see i'll just drop rank. When i get a warning for decay every month i will play and lose 1 game and by the end of the season i will still be leagues above where my actual skill level is.
Also there are still other champs that are strong but Riot doesn't care about, Zed, Fizz and Kalista, i have mained all 3 before they became fotm and outclassed every other champion (Zed since his release even)
WukongMain1 votesso you want a shiny rank you dont deserve just so its there? xD get a friend to boost you or something like that
Junkο6 votesI have actually seen a ton of Plats and Diamonds confess that they are only in the rank cause they spammed Fotm champions, 1/3 of the remaining are probably boosted considering how popular it is. Aka most of them don't deserve it. Hell i have made enough Diamond LBs go 0/5 with 30 cs with Zed and they were still able to 80-0 me (with 100-80 from 1 QW harass) if they managed to hit all their spells to prove the first true.
And i rather spam a broken champion because i can't get banned for it, if Riot detects i got boosted then my account will be permanently banned, and leveling up a new one takes forever.
The Soulforged6 votes:( I main poppy in plat.
junglerboy162 votesAwesome! Ultimate respect has been earned.
Sáx Man1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OJEi9ZMd,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-17T20:53:02.212+0000)
I have actually seen a ton of Plats and Diamonds confess that they are only in the rank cause they spammed Fotm champions, 1/3 of the remaining are probably boosted considering how popular it is. Aka most of them don't deserve it. Hell i have made enough Diamond LBs go 0/5 with 30 cs with Zed and they were still able to 80-0 me (with 100-80 from 1 QW harass) if they managed to hit all their spells to prove the first true.
This is such a terrible argument. Just because you've "seen a ton" doesn't mean that it's automatically a majority of the playerbase in those ranks. Furthermore, Just because a person plays a champ that's fotm doesn't mean they don't otherwise belong in a rank. It may help them, but there are other factors that go into winning and losing games. Also, a diamond leblanc being THAT far down (if it's true) and beating you probably means that you got outplayed pretty hard. Even though I agree she is a faceroll champ with a loaded kit, if you have a huge lead on her then you should continue to beat her as you get more fed because she falls off fast if she's not fed early.
You also say that 1/3 of them are boosted.... That is a pretty rash proclamation given that it's likely you have done 0 research and cited 0 sources. Moreover, people that boosted will most likely not play once they get to a ranked except to avoid dropping down because they know they don't actually have that skill (if they don't then they're pretty delusional, and it will show when they do their placements in the next season).
Reazale1 votesHow does 3.7 ratio fall off? what does happen to poor Veigar without his stun now that he has 2.6 ratio? and 300 less base? he is none existant?!
AkitaSaito1 votes[deleted]
Reazale1 voteswhich extra 1.0 ap? , 3.7 are leblanc ratios: 0.4+0.4 of her Q =0.8 0.6 of her W =0.6 0.5+0.5 of her E =1.0 0.65+0.65 Q/E Mimic ult =1.3 total ratio of an optimal combo =3.7ap
(taked from the wiki and checked ingame with 30ap Q=12-12 W=18 E=15-15 RQE=19-19 RW=29)
DontDieRespawn1 votesMobility mage that doesn't get q stacks. Vinegar can melt an adc with his ult late game just like a mage. Vinegar is broken played right, always has been always will be. His stacks work for every ability he is broken, if you allow him to be. Never mind the rest of his kit melt late game, the nerf was needed.
Saianna6 voteseither it's sarcasm or you are heavy retard.
DontDieRespawn1 votesNo it's the truth and always has been. I can melt anyone late game with him, I feel bad for you if you can not.
you are (a) heavy retard*
Alëk8 votesNo it's the truth and always has been. I can melt anyone late game with him, I feel bad for you if you can not.
you are (a) heavy retard*
You keep pressing late game. Late game indicates exactly that. "Late Game". If you get rekt early game there's no way you'll be able to do shit until everyone is lvl 18 with full build. Even then veigar is ridiculously squishy and easy to kill. With people like zed, talon, or pretty much any higher damage bruiser (Panth, Wukong etc) veigar is ez as fuck. Veigar can't instagib bruisers/tanks unless he lands a full combo (QWR). If that happens he is wihtout any defense and can easily be killed since he's entirely immobile.
Nasus is quite literally the strongest late game champion in the GAME. at 50 minutes you can have 1k stacks on his Q which is on a 3 second cooldown. Meaning that he can quite literally one shot any squishy while being a FULL tank. THAT is a strong late game. Veigar simply gains damage. he doesn't get any tankier, any more mobile, or gain any special utility. His stun is now relatively easy to dodge so there is no more stun=instadeath. It's wait for team to peel enemy down a bit and try to instagib a squishy who comes too close. If you're actually stupid enough to try and kill the tank than u got problems. Waste abilities on someone who's not going to have as much as an impact as the APC/ADC. You have no choice but to make smart moves with veigar now. His skill cap is definitely higher, but any place that isn't high level play recks veigar now.
TomA3X1 votesIt wasn't just the CD they buffed, other buffs have stayed in game. I suggest watching someone play him on the PBE, he's doing alright for himself.
Crushed lil kid1 votesno guys you arent understanding how riot thinks because 
cant make LCSBigPlays his good attributes are considered "unhealthy" but since can make flashy plays (deleted people in 2 buttons then press the same 2 buttons again and escape because reverting your all in is a thing that is very healthy)
Verxint1 votesThis is why PBE changes are TENTATIVE.
Is this really so hard for people to comprehend?
Besides, Veigar isn't actually doing too bad with the most recent change to his W. Now, if you cast it right on top of someone, most champions won't just be able to walk out of the circle before it comes up. It's still fairly hard to guarentee the stun against good players, but at least the spell can be used now without another CC to set it up.
Ovion1 votesThe problem is that Riot doesn't want Veigar to be viable, and the CD buff on his Q would let him go outside of the trashcan of forgotten champions...
qetzel1 votesPerhaps they were listening to the people who said that they didn't want Veigar to become a poke mage? Just a suggestion...
SMA Odyssey1 votesThey didn't revert all the buffs?? They literally only reverted the CD buff, why are you complaining when they're still giving him huge buffs to his Q.
TotalJerk1 votesBecause they realized that buffing his Q AGAIN is among the dumbest ways they could possibly buff him. They might as well buff Poppy's passive.
Axrios1 votesur forgetting LB has tits :)
junglerboy161 votesinb4 they buff Dark matter's delay instead, which would be way better.
Really, they're just in the first week and a half of this PBE cycle, they have plenty of time to add new stuff.
Castanean1 votesMaking Veigar's Q have 5 sec CD at all ranks was a silly idea to begin with though. Really, if they want him to get stronger, they need to make his W at least a little bit more reliable. As I've said about a million times in Veigar threads, what makes him weak now isn't directly the fact that his stun has a delay, but rather the fact that you literally can't hit a halfway decent player with Dark Matter, which is literally over a third of his damage. So, it's inderectly the fault of his stun having a delay.
And here's the comparison I use the most: "The size of Syndra's Q with over twice the delay. Syndra's Q can miss."
bunies1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OJEi9ZMd,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-03-17T20:27:04.426+0000)
Thanks for giving me false hope Riot. Meanwhile LB is getting a 50 damage nerf at 1k AP while being able to 100-0 anybody in the game with base damages alone.
Riot forbid a immobile mage can 100-0, but a assassin mage with 2 mobility spells can do it just fine with no drawbacks and no frustrating laning phase.
plz stop bitching your freelo ripped out of final fantasy is finally getting fixed
Stacona1 votesLeblanc is insanely overpowered even without her mobility (not even Malzahar has Leblanc's damage just to compare here, so add in mobility and you have insane power creeped champion and same goes for Riven and Katarina) If I made a champion concept anywhere near Leblanc's CURRENT power levels then that post would be downvoted and screamed at as overpowered (I of course would balance my concept and adjust my values accordingly so my concept is balanced) but mobility assassins need to have their damage gutted to be balanced for a healthy state in the game. Sure an RPG is not a PvP MOBA but in an RPG Black Mages are slow and deal hefty damage in single bursts while Assassins are fast but need to deal their damage in multiple tiny burst intervals just to match that of the black mage's single burst damage - this idea has better PvP balancing while being PvE than Leage does where Assassins right now have Black Mage and Assassin properties COMBINED while the immobile mages are strictly Black Mages within league.
ModWulf Helhammer1 votesThat usually happens to a lot of things on the PBE, and doesn't necessarily mean they aren't being implemented. Look at the Darius thread that's at the top of the 'hot' page. Meddler talked about why the current Darius ult changes got reverted on there, and he also said he's check in with the people working on Veigar and see if they could answer some stuff on the boards
Loken Stoneheart1 votesReminder that Nidalee's Q has more AP scaling than the quintessential "burst mage's" ult.