So when is LB getting nerfed? Even Faker said he is 12-0 with her just because she is OP.

Junkο·Apr 25, 2015·77 votes·5,717 views

Q. (To Faker) How do you feel about achieving 12-0 on Leblanc? Faker : It's because Leblanc is OP. I don't think it's because of me.

160 Comments

lB2kGRlc8yApr 25, 201531 votes

"lets have her have a kass ult as a non-ult with an undo button built in, but the button won't undo the damage"

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 25, 20158 votes

Why downvote? the guy is right. Kassadin's new R is shorter, but it comes up faster later on. Very comparable given the distance covered by the undo.

Battlecast SonaApr 26, 20154 votes

I think Kassadin actually went in the correct direction for his mobility - his item cap with the new athene's build makes his spike later, his ult range makes his laning phase easier to deal with and makes him more gankable... But his mid/late game is still fine unless you're really behind. Why can't we do something like this to LB?

goldensilver09Apr 25, 201523 votes

Wait. I though patch 5.6 nerf was enough to make her balanced D:

JunkοApr 25, 201512 votes

-50 damage on RQ/RE or 75 damage on RW when she has 1k AP

Yeah, sure

goldensilver09Apr 25, 201578 votes

...

MetalGearTeemuApr 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Wait. I though patch 5.6 nerf was enough to make her balanced D:

"We removed deathfire grasp because it was allowing too much burst"

"Then we created a first buy item on just about every ap that doesn't have the run athenes for mana sustain that provides burst and outputs more teamfight damage then deathfire. "

T RexHasLongLegsApr 25, 20152 votes

Plus it provides wave clear and has synergy with mobility. We thought champs like katarina and leblanc just didn't have enough AOE damage when they completed the items they wanted so we made sure the new burst item for AP champs was AOE splash, and we thought mobility wasn't an issue in the game so we made sure that it would charge faster and deal damage more often anytime a champ could cast a spell that makes them move across more distance.

NarasimhaApr 26, 20155 votes

I have yet to be bursted down by a Luden's. A little bit more damage, but nowhere close to DFG. I'll take it anyday.

NichiyoubiApr 25, 201521 votes

Well, if Faker can do well on her, anyone can, right? Seriously though, she is not an easy champion to play, so her kit should be strong enough to reward players who master her. She doesn't have a high win rate, all in all, not even in high elo.

JunkοApr 25, 201516 votes

Win rate doesn't mean anything when a champion is banned in 40% games and played in almost all the rest. People will just pick champions and expect a free win. But somebody who has a basic idea of how she works will stomp. She is actually fairly easy to play after 2-3 games, the only hard thing to do with her is using her passive, which can still save your life even if you have no idea how to use it.

Dies to WolvesApr 25, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5UIwKjzl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-25T08:30:16.251+0000)

Win rate doesn't mean anything when a champion is banned in 40% games and played in almost all the rest. People will just pick champions and expect a free win. But somebody who has a basic idea of how she works will stomp. She is actually fairly easy to play after 2-3 games, the only hard thing to do with her is using her passive, which can still save your life even if you have no idea how to use it.

as long as riot guts sejuani and a few other champions first, I'm fine with them nerfing LB too. Heck, I'd enjoy them nerfing her so I could play her again - but lets be honest, there are more "nerf-deserving" champions so to speak out there.

LankPantsApr 25, 20157 votes

as long as riot guts sejuani and a few other champions first, I'm fine with them nerfing LB too. Heck, I'd enjoy them nerfing her so I could play her again - but lets be honest, there are more "nerf-deserving" champions so to speak out there.

The difference between LB and Sej is that LB has been a long term problem and actually has underlying kit problems that aren't just numbers being a bit overtuned.

LB is from a class that is generally a high risk/high reward class, however she has no associated risk with her kit. (a problem shared with Zed) She has a lower risk of both failure to assassinate a single target and death than most other assassins do. She also gets the same rewards as most other assassins (Kat exempted) as she can easily blow up a single target with very little trouble. In short she has no true weakness, even lacking some of her classes general weaknesses such as being melee ranged and easy to bully early.

Compared to Sej who actually has weaknesses such as a need to commit to a fight fully and a very poor early game I'd say LB is far more deserving of nerfs.

And yes I know I'm biased as hell, but at least I'm not on a forums smurf so people can clearly see my biases.

DengedenApr 25, 20159 votes

Are you kidding me? She literally face tanks you to do (most of her) damage. With the removal of her silence, she will eventually just get burst down for engaging.

Her problem is simply that she's one of the few champions with an early game edge (and a late game power drop) that are actually viable. A champion that shuts down champions with better scaling is (most likely) impossible to balance, plain and simple. They either manage to shut down their opponents or they don't and auto-lose. Look at Renekton and Elise, either top tier or trash tier.

Zair UmbrasApr 25, 20159 votes

I really, really hate when people say LB has a late game power drop. All of you who say this have no idea what they're talking about.

This issue was something that kept LB out of the LCS and other competitive games. HOWEVER. That was S2. Since then, she's gotten numerous buffs. Before, her ratios were iffy, but with the redesign of her R that was a complete buff plus the loss of mana cost on it early, which made her mana problems fade away.

She used to only have a 20%-40% boost on her Q. Her Q's damage hasn't been overall changed really. It's always done a .8 ratio in total. It used to do 330 damage in base at max, which meant it would do 462 in total on her maxed R. Currently, her maxed R does 600 base with both parts proc'd and a 1.2x ratio. Old ratio was 1.12. Her Q did lose 20 base damage though since then and she lost a silence...

Do you see where I'm going with this? Her damage used to be all in her early game that was botched by a mana cost and if you used your R incorrectly in a team fight, like doing a mimic W or mimic E if you didn't have that ability leveled, it wasn't doing any damage. Now, it DOES do damage. She has amazing ratios now, amazing bases, very low CD's, very low mana costs outside of her W...

LeBlanc does not fall off. She simply doesn't. She snowballs harder than Akali and the only actual counterplay to her is to Zhonya's when she tries to combo, or buying a GA. The only other way to stop her combo is to knock her back as soon as you see her dash. This stops her dash, which stops her damage MOST of the time. If you stop her at the very second she presses W, which takes inhuman reflexes, you'll stop it, otherwise, you interrupt the dash and still eat the damage. Plus you still ate the double Q, which is 610 base damage (300 from the full Q and the initial 300 from the R'd Q) plus the 1.4x ratio (.8 from the full Q and initial .6 from the R'd Q).

She has reliability, high mobility, huge damage, CC, and a passive that makes her even harder to kill. She's got old Fizz's reliability and damage with old Kassadin's mobility, and easier mana management than Zed.

JefftiffyApr 25, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Well, if Faker can do well on her, anyone can, right? Seriously though, she is not an easy champion to play, so her kit should be strong enough to reward players who master her. She doesn't have a high win rate, all in all, not even in high elo.

Doesn't matter if she has a high skill cap. It is the same reason Lee Sin, Orianna, Zed, and Gnar have all been nerfed or at least been complained about.

Skill cap should not lead to have a better champ. Le Blanc has stupid high burst on a person who even builds some resists and hp to the point where she can one shot them even with those with a relatively low CD and 4 mobility spells combined with a spell that buys her even more time to escape (her passive). She can use her W up to 2 times forcing you to choose to either chase her and just have her swap back (because it is so hard to push a button when she is over 1500 units away from it) and her ult is the same. On top of that her mobility also does a ton of damage giving her the potential for wave clear.

All Le Blanc needs: .5s cast time on her swap on both spells (causing the symbol to glow even through fog of war). And Distortion: MAGIC DAMAGE: 85 / 125 / 165 / 205 / 245 ~~(+ 60% AP)~~->(+30% AP). On top of this. (same reason Kha'Zix has his leap nerfed into the ground)

Mimic MIMIC: DISTORTION: ~~150 / 300 / 450 (+ 90% AP)~~-> 100/250/400 (+45% AP)

Why nerfing the damage on her mobility? To make her choose if she is going to go in hard and blow people up for less damage and escape or to stay a bit closer and blow them up for a guaranteed kill and then escape.

BakedLotionApr 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Well, if Faker can do well on her, anyone can, right? Seriously though, she is not an easy champion to play, so her kit should be strong enough to reward players who master her. She doesn't have a high win rate, all in all, not even in high elo.

Not easy? Q W for 3/4th of someones health or if u want to be a bitch and 100-0 press an extra button with Q R W. WOW SO HARD Oh you got ganked? double dash away. Oh they chased you and flashed? go back to w mark. Oh they're close? snare for 20 seconds. Oh they flashed? HAH the tether is like 5 miles long. Oh wait i can just 100-0 them in less than a second with my point and click nukes.

Trash MammaIApr 25, 201518 votes

As much as I Don't like her at least she can die. Riven has just as much retarded mobility and damage only has cc and tankiness to help

IllusoryLuminesApr 25, 20159 votes

{quoted} at least she can die.

[citation needed]

DomainSpecificApr 25, 201510 votes

tbh LeBlanc can't die if she mastered the champion.

Only good thing now is that the tank meta keeps her power in check because tanks can effectively peel for the carries. As soon as this meta goes away, her power will go up really fast.

VarkreyApr 25, 20153 votes

People have forgotten poor Galio, counter of assassins.

GrompishApr 26, 20159 votes

Hah. I hate to admit it, but I feel the same way as a leblanc main. I really don't care who I'm against, if I get leblanc middle, you had better be at least three times my skill level to win. If you try to counter-pick me, but are not incredible at that champion, I will still win. If you do not have a ward in every bush, I will surprise you and get free kills. I'll likely steal your junglers buffs and escape before you even have time to collapse. If you surround me, I will W to the one open area, return.. Ult, return... W, return... Until you are all behind me. Sure, I die in games, but... It's usually because I'm majorly snowballing and being cocky. It's kind of crazy actually.. I've had teams that dropped nearly every summoner spell on me, most of their flashes, dashes, blinks, and still not even come CLOSE to catching me. Usually when I lose with Leblanc it is because someone was absolutely destroyed during laning phase to the point that I couldn't even get there to gank. I mean, she has two amazingly long-distance snares that I believe have the same issue as Morg's ult (Where you clearly escape range but still get stunned). You usually waste flash if you try to flash away from her chains. Also, if you get snared you probably have an 80% chance of death. Two jumps that I believe are further distance than flash (Is that right?) And one very high probability 100-0 combo. (If she snowballs, you will get 100-0'd by any combo) Also, an ult that usually breaks most ults (Since you have a clone AND you go invisible for a decent amount of time) Caitlyn ult? Let me just walk my clone over ANNNDD wasted. Also, zhonyas. Let's not even go there.

Okay, silence me, stun me, snare me... But if you don't chain those skills.. I'm getting away.

Only Play DariusApr 25, 20158 votes

Her winrate is like 46%.....

I mean hell even Zed is about 50%.

JunkοApr 25, 20159 votes

She has 65% pick/ban rate, of course she will have a low win rate because some people will pick her expecting a free win.

Btw if your round her winrate it's actually 47%, meanwhile Zed's is 48%. But same thing applies to Zed.

qetzelApr 25, 20152 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Leblanc

Sadly wrong. She only breaks an average of a 50% win rate for players that have over 125 games on her.

Zed is different - http://champion.gg/champion/Zed

RyzeReworkApr 25, 20156 votes

i dont think lb is strong at all honestly shes very easy to counter and is really bad against cc i mean its her job to kill 1-2 people then escape and if you dont have cc you deserve to lose to a lb lol

Darcade333Apr 25, 20155 votes

most of leblanc's power in gameplay comes from jukes, which is highly based on her passive like voli... one should know how to counterplay her and engage while the passive is on cooldown or she has a differentiating mark on her... for eg. when i use yasuo and get her on 50% health, i use my e-q combo so that when she splits i could figure out which is the right one , as my e leaves a mark on the target... small tricks like these will help to play aganst her much better...

Tip: Zed loves item 3290

JunkοApr 25, 201521 votes

I play LB every now and then, and i'm pretty sure her power comes from the fact that she can instakill somebody every 24 seconds(not counting CDR) with pretty much no counterplay because 2 of her skills in her combo are point and click and the other is an almost instant dash.

Juking power and CC from E are just added bonuses that makes her even more obnoxious that she is supposed to be.

Darcade333Apr 25, 20151 votes

i dont recommend it much, but if she is fed early you could do 2 things

build a qss for the sigil and also for MR
dodge the chain

the CD for qss is very high as compared to her sigil but it will decrease he burst significantly and you have a small window to kill her or atleast deal too much damage on her that she may be forced to retreat. call your jungler then to do the dirty work :P then go back and heal, play a li'l defense and engage once you got qss up... this will reduce her feeding speed and you'll have the time to catch up

if you're AD then its better as QSS will build into merc. scepter do this only if you think that leblanc is gettin fed and she is a real big problem than any of her remaining teammates.. then she'll start to roam when she sees she cant kill you in one shot. ward the river for that and during her roam, you farm mid and this will reduce her farm too as she will be wasting time roaming and trying to gank bcz river is warded...

and if she stays to farm then mission accomplished, she wont get any kills and if she gets aggressive, call your jungler

Trivia : should heal from ignite summoner 14

LankPantsApr 25, 20151 votes

dont recommend it much, but if she is fed early you could do 2 things

build a qss for the sigil and also for MR dodge the chain

The thing about these suggestions is that they only work until LB dashes directly on top of you. When she jumps into you you don't get any time to QSS a sigil or dodge a chain, and while you can QSS the chain snare it really doesn't matter, because you're already dead.

Darcade333Apr 25, 20151 votes

i never said to qss the chain, leblanc has to put a sigil on you before the dash to do that extra burst damage... you have a very short time in which she does that. so as soon as she land sigil you need to qss . you will get damaged from the dash but wont die because of no sigil. not dying is the key.

Tip: wanna climb faster in ranked? "Never repeat your mistakes"

LankPantsApr 25, 20152 votes

i never said to qss the chain, leblanc has to put a sigil on you before the dash to do that extra burst damage... you have a very short time in which she does that.

You can't QSS the sigil if she dashes into melee range and procs with a Q-R-E combo, it's not possible within human reaction speed. This is LBs problem, she can 100-0 you far too easy and as long as she doesn't fuck up she kills you.

Tip: wanna climb faster in ranked? "Never repeat your mistakes"

You're bronze. That doesn't mean you know nothing about the game, but it does mean you don't know how to climb. I don't have to make a mistake in order to die to LB, the only counterplay to her is to ban her.

A Miss FortuneApr 25, 20151 votes

Hold up, just would like to mention that Veigar can also instantly kill even a tank when his ultimate is up too, plus he HAD the most overpowered crowd control in the game. It was an instant massive AoE root if it wasn't a stun. Only way to get out of it was to burn a flash.

Burst damage mages are burst damage, if you think LB is overpowered then I know a little girl with a bear that's next to be called out for being broken.

SgtCrispyApr 25, 20152 votes

Annie doesn't have the mobility LB does, she requires Flash to even make plays.

Loken StoneheartApr 25, 201513 votes

{quoted}

Hold up, just would like to mention that Veigar can also instantly kill even a tank when his ultimate is up too, plus he HAD the most overpowered crowd control in the game. It was an instant massive AoE root if it wasn't a stun. Only way to get out of it was to burn a flash.

Burst damage mages are burst damage, if you think LB is overpowered then I know a little girl with a bear that's next to be called out for being broken.

And you know what Veigar didn't and still doesn't have?

MOBILITY.

Or, for that matter, the ability to kill someone every 20 seconds rather than every 80.

EvilRabbittApr 25, 20151 votes

Then Veigar tosses his Cage and ults her.

Loken StoneheartApr 25, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Then Veigar tosses his Cage and ults her.

And then she W's or R's out of it because it has such a massive delay, and kills Veigar for walking so absurdly close to her.

LegendaryLemurApr 25, 20154 votes

Whatever happened to the PBE nerfs from May 2014? http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/05/523-pbe-update.html

LeBlanc

Distortion (W) mana cost lowered to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120
Mimic (R) damage from Mimicked Sigil of Silence  lowered to 60/110/160 ( .5 AP ) from 100/200/300 ( .65 AP )
Mimic (R) damage from Mimicked Ethereal Chains  lowered to 60/110/160 ( .5 AP ) from 100/200/300 ( .65 AP )
Mimic (R) damage from Mimicked Distortion  lowered to 90/165/240 (.75 AP) from 150/300/450 (.975 AP)

They just changed their mind i guess?

JunkοApr 25, 20157 votes

They probably realized that removing 150 damage at 1k AP did nothing. Idk why they did it again 1 year later but only removed 50 though.

LegendaryLemurApr 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5UIwKjzl,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-04-25T08:50:20.926+0000)

They probably realized that removing 150 damage at 1k AP did nothing. Idk why they did it again 1 year later but only removed 50 though.

Except these changes also heavily nerfed the base damages not just the ratios.

JunkοApr 25, 20154 votes

Oh yeah you are right. My bad

Mooing KevApr 25, 20154 votes

Lol look at all these ppl defending lb but when it comes to zed they just can't stop complaining bout him.

Demented LemurApr 26, 20151 votes

there both pretty OP to be honest

Mooing KevApr 27, 20151 votes

Both are really good but everyone hates zed more even though leblanc can be just as annoying.

Demented LemurApr 30, 20151 votes

well the only thing I will say is that Leblanc at least cant easily last hit and has mana but there both annoying fucks

DepóngoApr 25, 20153 votes

Are you sure Faker wasn't just joking?

aaronconlinApr 25, 20152 votes

I've never understood the hatred for LeBlanc (except release LeBlanc, fuck that). If you make it past laning phase, even a fed LeBlanc will have trouble carrying a game. Plus, item 3102 counters a ton of her burst. Galio also exists, and crushes Leblanc

YOU BEEN WARNEDApr 25, 20158 votes

Yeah pick an immobile champion to counter a mobile one that can pressure all over the map while you're sitting there.

The same thing could be said for Zed & Riven and countering them with anything really. They can roam because they beat over half the roster.

aaronconlinApr 25, 20152 votes

Gallo benefits from stacking MR, so items like item 3174 item 3001 item 3111 and item 3065 work on him against any mage very well. If they roam, follow them. can't really count on your teammates to listen to your pings so you can turn a 1v2 or 2v3 into a fair fight, and Galio's ult is an amazing team fighting tool