So Jarvan was disabled because his ult dealt more dmg than intended

Junkο·Dec 11, 2014·24 votes·5,150 views

Meanwhile Warwick was allowed an entire patch of single handedly winning games because of an unintended item abuse.

That logic is just, wow...

37 Comments

RiotMeddlerDec 11, 201426 votes

In Warwick's case we suspected he'd be strong in the new jungle with the new items and preemptively nerfed him a bit in 4.20 as a result. That did still leave him too strong, his abilities were functioning as intended however and while too powerful weren't dealing multiple times the appropriate damage - overtuned, but not literally broken.

Jarvan's ult by contrast is currently bugged in a way that causes it to sometimes deal its damage multiple times - random chance to be much more powerful than Warwick's 4.20 state.

CoolKnightSTDec 12, 20141 votes

What about Nunu it's announced this will be the nunu patch.

Lord DusteonDec 11, 201410 votes

J4 ult = Bug.

Warwick On Hit procs synergizing extremely well with on hit items = Not bug.

JunkοDec 11, 20142 votes

Warwick ult is actually bugged too. Even if you Cleanse or QSS it, it will steal deal full duration damage. That's mainly the reason why he was so fucking broken.

Also why was Azir not and is still not disabled? (excluding as soon as he was released)

Lord DusteonDec 11, 20149 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUGRv46z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2014-12-11T16:09:35.735+0000) Warwick ult is actually bugged too. Even if you Cleanse or QSS it, it will steal deal full duration damage. That's mainly the reason why he was so fucking broken.

Also why was Azir not and is still not disabled? (excluding as soon as he was released)

For damage dealing, that's probably because Warwick ult (like Malzahar ult) does not stop dealing damage if cleansed. If you interrupt the channel damage stops, but cleansing only stops the cc portion.

Not really sure on Azir; probably because his bugs are rarer, though it could just be because they want him open because he's playable and dealing the same damage and interactions in most cases.

JunkοDec 11, 20141 votes

Soldiers dealing no damage with AA and Q and his ult not functioning isn't doing the same damage and interactions last time i checked

coppinslingerDec 11, 20144 votes

I've been spamming Azir recently and for the most part, everything works fine. There is just the odd missed auto in there, but not very common.

JunkοDec 12, 20141 votes

But what about when he was released? His ult almost never knocked back, dealt damage or acted as a wall his abilities sometimes didn't look like they went on CD, his soldiers miseed attack constantly, his Q failed to deal dmg, etc...

EnvyDragonDec 12, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUGRv46z,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-12T04:42:03.977+0000) But what about when he was released? His ult almost never knocked back, dealt damage or acted as a wall his abilities sometimes didn't look like they went on CD, his soldiers miseed attack constantly, his Q failed to deal dmg, etc...

He WAS disabled for a little while just after release. His ult dealt damage multiple times, and could - for example - "kill" the edges of Jayce's acceleration gate multiple times, granting stupid amounts of experience for free.

A champion who does poorly on release due to bugs/poor QoL (see also: release Syndra, 23% winrate) is not the same as a champion who has, say, a 1 in 5 chance of doing 10k bonus damage to a target due to a coding mixup.

JunkοDec 12, 20141 votes

One causes the person to 100% win the game, other causes to 100% lose. They both decide the outcome of the game and should be both disabled.

Btw Azir could not deal infinite damage with ult, he could double knockup people with it but that was it. However it broke half of the abilities in the game because "everything is a minion" that is true and that was a ton more game broken than Jarvan. When he was undisabled his ult no longer functioned at all.

EnvyDragonDec 12, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUGRv46z,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-12T18:12:24.668+0000) One causes the person to 100% win the game, other causes to 100% lose. They both decide the outcome of the game and should be both disabled.

What are you even arguing anymore?

You said Azir should have been disabled. He WAS disabled. Then they fixed a truckload of bugs - the ones that plagued both him and his opponents - and then re-enabled him.

Having bugs in a champion's favor is different from bugs against them. If they left Jarvan active, people would've gone into ranked and won every single game due to freelo because he's the best possible option. On the other hand, if a champion has bugs that cause poor performance (ex. release Syndra), then players can just go grab one of the other hundred-plus champions in the game instead... or the hardcore types can play her ANYWAY, and try to learn her strengths despite the handicap (which is what I did. Positive winrate on release syndra ftw).

When a bug truly breaks a champion, like if someone lost their ability to autoattack after recalling, then that's worth a disable because that champion can no longer contribute to their team in any way.

Negative bugs (like the temporary inability to flash-Q for xerath, varus and vi RIGHT NOW) don't totally take a player out of the game, they just reduce a champ's strength.

JunkοDec 12, 20141 votes

When a bug truly breaks a champion, like if someone lost their ability to autoattack after recalling, then that's worth a disable because that champion can no longer contribute to their team in any way.

For example Azir ult not existing?

But w/e not worth arguing anymore. We both have our own views on what should be disabled, and clearly Riot has their own.

StephenizgodDec 12, 20141 votes

Actually QSS will stop Malzahar's ult, every time someone QSS's my ult it gets cancelled.

Solidair3Dec 12, 20141 votes

{quoted} Actually QSS will stop Malzahar's ult, every time someone QSS's my ult it gets cancelled.

It only cancels suppression, the damage will still continue. until the target moves out of the tether range.

StephenizgodDec 12, 20141 votes

Yep im aware of what it is suppose to do, but for me it just straight up cancels it most of the time. One time the opponent even asked me "Is it suppose to cancel your ult?". Ive already reported it as a bug but idk if they got it.

City of TorontoDec 11, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUGRv46z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2014-12-11T16:09:35.735+0000) Warwick ult is actually bugged too. Even if you Cleanse or QSS it, it will steal deal full duration damage. That's mainly the reason why he was so fucking broken.

Also why was Azir not and is still not disabled? (excluding as soon as he was released)

That's not a bug. Warwick suppresses you and deals damage. QSS cleanses suppress, it doesn't cleanse damage.

Bears Dont CareDec 11, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rainbowe Dash,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUGRv46z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2014-12-11T16:09:35.735+0000) Warwick ult is actually bugged too. Even if you Cleanse or QSS it, it will steal deal full duration damage. That's mainly the reason why he was so fucking broken.

Also why was Azir not and is still not disabled? (excluding as soon as he was released)

Not a bug actually sincr you are in range.of it. Happens with malz.

Hyrum GraffDec 12, 20142 votes

Shouldn't the range be melee, though?

DrCyanideDec 12, 20141 votes

This! I managed to hit Warwick with a Gold Card as he went to ult me last patch. I didn't get suppressed, and I started to walk away, but still died from Warwick's mysteriously increased range.

DirewolfiezDec 11, 20141 votes

It dealt pure damage, which was most definitely a mistake, unless Riot decided to go ahead with some massive WW buffs and didn't say anything.

Lord DusteonDec 11, 20141 votes

{quoted} It dealt pure damage, which was most definitely a mistake, unless Riot decided to go ahead with some massive WW buffs and didn't say anything.

The mistake wasn't "WW's ult makes this item do pure damage" it was "this item does true damage". Big difference.

JunkοDec 11, 20143 votes

There is also a huge difference between Jarvan dealing a bit more damage and an item making a champion able to kill GA, Trynd,, Kayle, etc..

Yet who was disabled? Jarvan and not the item

DirewolfiezDec 11, 20141 votes

No, actually, it was a WW buff, considering he's easily able to buff his AA speed, so he's one of the the champs that can most easily abuse the bug, not even mentioning his ult. Buffs to items can be considered buffs to champs, you know. The item broke WW, no doubt, but parts of his kit were already oppressive and too forgiving anyway.

His ult shouldn't be used to kill, it should be used to immobilize squishy targets before they flee and lock them down for your teammates.

KonidiasDec 11, 20145 votes

This explains why when I dove a Jarvan last night who was the same level as me, he absolutely decimated my health while I barely scratched his...

Wow. Glad that wasn't me just being bad. lol

jimmylismDec 11, 201423 votes

I think you mean demaciated Awww yeahhhh

Jeddy017Dec 11, 20145 votes

DEMACIATING Bitches all day Garen

AbodyHUN666Dec 12, 20141 votes

damn, I'm late xD

Rock RockburghDec 11, 20142 votes

What's so bad about that? I mean, by some definitions you were still at 90%!

CindikleDec 11, 20142 votes

The problem wasn't WW. it was an item.

And they were not about to disable an item when they're still working on getting the stats and feedback they need. I'm guessing it couldn't be easily fixed in a hotpatch like J4's ult. And they had to decide what to do with it as well.

QuephaDec 11, 20141 votes

i doubt skirmisher + ww ult was unintended, they were probably thinking of him specifically when they designed it. they just underestimated how powerful it would be vs. the cost of spending your ult AND a summoner simultaneously.

Bears Dont CareDec 11, 20141 votes

Cool and so.. how is ww supposed to hwlp do a kill if he has no way to stick to someone?

Oh hey i ulted for no damage. My only gap closer. Guess ima just go back now. Ww is over nerfed.

JunkοDec 11, 20142 votes

Not like his E gives a speed boost or anything, or that Botrk is core on him, or that you can buy Chilling Smite and slow

Yep no way to stick to somebody

DirewolfiezDec 11, 20141 votes

To be fair, he has lower mobility than most other popular junglers, but yeah, it's not like he's as immobile as Vel'Koz or Ashe. If you're not able to proc his E, you're not playing WW right. Ideally he's supposed to come in when he's least wanted by the enemy team, lock down a squishy, and chase them down and Q them to death.

ImHerVoiceDec 11, 20141 votes

Now j4's ult lets people walk out of it despite ulting them mid animation and they recieve no damage. Happened 4 times today to me. Thanks riot. Another FINE JOB.