@Riot you talked about changes to base stats

Big Lincoln·Feb 16, 2017·5 votes·753 views

how do you plan to differentiate tank vs juggernaut, as far as defensive base stats go?

juggs will have much higher base AD I'm assuming, but they're also expected to be usually innately durable too. will they have higher base stats on the expectation that most of them have 1 or 2 item slots for damage? about the same? lower base stats because most of them have strong sustain?

since you guys seem to be getting close to revealing tank update, thought it was worth bringing up

24 Comments

Big LincolnFeb 16, 20173 votes

I would say that juggernauts should have better stats, if only because most of them have no means of reducing or negating damage, only healing it back up

and that they're far less mobile, usually

RalanrFeb 16, 20171 votes

Garen W, Nasus ult, Courage on Darius and Volibear, Mordekaiser shield.

Big LincolnFeb 16, 20172 votes

most

and neither of them take courage RN

RalanrFeb 16, 20171 votes

That's five out of how many? I'm honestly not sure.

Big LincolnFeb 16, 20172 votes

Garen Mordekaiser Nasus Darius Illaoi Trundle Volibear Olaf Shyvana Yorick Udyr (?) DrMundo

i think this is the whole list?

juggernaut patch 2.0 when?

RalanrFeb 16, 20171 votes

I forgot uydr but you're right on most.

Personally I don't think that juggernauts should have higher base stats because since they build the same items they'll too closely compete with tanks on being the most durable champions in the game. I think juggernauts should have higher health against tanks having higher resistances.

Big LincolnFeb 16, 20172 votes

i actually think it should be the inverse; juggernauts are more inclined to build health, so they should have higher base resists

and vice versa for tanks

RalanrFeb 16, 20171 votes

Buuuuut if tank items are building to give less resistances to prevent things like Tank Ekko, then that means the tank class needs great starting and scaling resistances.

SpoofghoulFeb 16, 20172 votes

or possibly larger base health pools and base health regeneration, giving some tank items base health scalings for example to prevent abuse cases. since juggernauts have high base health too this shouldn't be an issue for them either if they want a few pure tank items in their build.

you could make a case for Sion getting higher base resistances since he has to farm his health pool, and this health pool could also be considered base health if they go with base health scalings on items

This would mean that tanks will prefer to build additional resistance items and items which synergize with base health. and juggernauts will most likely opt for the hp + damage hybrid options like cleaver, steraks and titanic hydra.

Sion will definitely end up in a weird spot during this update since he is more of a tank/juggernaut hybrid with a weird way of acquiring stacks compared to all the rest of them as in he has to farm his stats

But there are options for riot to handle that as in giving him more base stats in regen & armor or making his farmed health into base health as opposed to bonus health if that would make sense in the light of item reworks

Big LincolnFeb 16, 20171 votes

i think it means juggernauts need the return of atma's desu

i guess they could have similar base stats? like, they'd still differ wildly in their function just by kits alone; juggernauts will carry and tanks will apply CC. maybe it's just splitting hairs to separate them

Tychusfindlay919Feb 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9tHqtkl,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-02-16T21:42:11.458+0000)

i think it means juggernauts need the return of atma's desu

i guess they could have similar base stats? like, they'd still differ wildly in their function just by kits alone; juggernauts will carry and tanks will apply CC. maybe it's just splitting hairs to separate them

What the hell is desu

Big LincolnFeb 17, 20171 votes

desu desu

Tychusfindlay919Feb 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9tHqtkl,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-02-17T15:08:33.400+0000)

desu desu

Whatever, keep sounding like a fool, that's not my issue.

NGNL AsianFeb 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9tHqtkl,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-16T21:08:32.592+0000)

(?)

i think this is the whole list?

juggernaut patch 2.0 when?

How is udyr a juggernaut?

Big LincolnFeb 17, 20172 votes

no dash, limited CC, mostly focused on being an asshole in melee range

seems like a juggernaut to me, lol

SettDownShutUpFeb 16, 20171 votes

Here's hoping there's actually discussion/player feedback for it first. I very clearly remember Mordekaiser's rework thread.

RalanrFeb 16, 20171 votes

I mean...they got better around the mages. Kinda.

EndlessSorcererFeb 16, 20172 votes

Malzahar begs to differ.

RalanrFeb 16, 20172 votes

I mainly mean Cass. Her mains shut up.

NGNL AsianFeb 17, 20171 votes

I hope juggernauts dont get buffed. It's literally the most annoying class in my opinion. They do so much damage and yet are so tanky. It's nearly impossible to outduel them as melees. Garen gets a free ms buff that is enough to get to a lot of ranged characters. The classic dead mans darius with his E can delete the crap out of you. LIke when you play against one, the stress is just really high unless the enemy isnt playing him right

Big LincolnFeb 17, 20173 votes

that's the point, they have very little CC and offer not much else to their team besides damage and durability. seems fair that they can duel well when they're generally bad in 5v5s, and even then you can still outduel them as certain champs like a late game MasterYi . but if you're playing a diver like Renekton or something, yeah you're going to beat them early on but pretty much all of them outscale you and will crush you in a duel if they catch up or if you never beat them to begin with.

I think more champions should be as limited as juggernauts are; I like that I have to play around having very noticeable trade-offs to compensate for my strengths and actually consider the team comp that I'm with. Would be nice to see mages not being AOE utility burst with low cooldowns and very manageable mana costs. Or tanky marksmen not also being one of the hardest nukers in the game Graves

NGNL AsianFeb 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9tHqtkl,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-17T02:33:20.091+0000)

that's the point, they have very little CC and offer not much else to their team besides damage and durability. seems fair that they can duel well when they're generally bad in 5v5s, and even then you can still outduel them as certain champs like a late game . but if you're playing a diver like Renekton or something, yeah you're going to beat them early on but pretty much all of them outscale you and will crush you in a duel if they catch up or if you never beat them to begin with.

I think more champions should be as limited as juggernauts are; I like that I have to play around having very noticeable trade-offs to compensate for my strengths and actually consider the team comp that I'm with. Would be nice to see mages not being AOE utility burst with low cooldowns and very manageable mana costs. Or tanky marksmen not also being one of the hardest nukers in the game

"Generally bad in 5v5s. Garen presses E in the middle of everyone. Shreds 25% of the armor of everyone with jsut E. Then Getting them cleaver procs and they having only like 45% of their original armor. (Yasuo ults). WOOHOO TRUE DAMAGE

Big LincolnFeb 17, 20173 votes

if Garen is hitting all 5 of you then you really outplayed yourselves

NGNL AsianFeb 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O9tHqtkl,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-17T03:52:00.597+0000)

if Garen is hitting all 5 of you then you really outplayed yourselves

I swear everytime I play against a garen he just flash Q W Es. Or like against a darius and he just walks up to our backline with dead mans and flash, presses E, spins Q and get free cleaver procs with his passive and getting like his passive out on the adc in like 2-3 seconds. And then them true damage ult resets starts coming out.