Please do not put Spear of Shojin in the game

AstroFerrari ·Jun 6, 2018·17 votes·10,044 views

I don't know what else to say, we all know that Dragons Heart passive is going to be problematic.

43 Comments

AirKingNeoJun 6, 20187 votes

the damage reduction is PRE resistances.

that makes it a lot worse than you think

LoLKiruJun 7, 20183 votes

{quoted}

the damage reduction is PRE resistances.

that makes it a lot worse than you think

Its also capped at 70 damage per hit..... with like 580 AD (give or take); realistically only Jhin could get enough AD to use it to its full potential, but if Jhin is within range of 3 people to activate Dragon's Heart, no amount of DR will save him.

HàrrowRJun 7, 20181 votes

Whats the range of the Dragon heart? He doesn't have to be in range of Kha,Le Blanc and Zed,he just needs to be in range of the enemy frontline and if someone tries to dive him he gets the passive,we just have to wait and see if it will be good on him

My Waifu VanillaJun 7, 20182 votes

Spear doesn't work with Jhin's passive. Jhin actually is EASILY one of the worst users of the item since you basically have to be in melee range to get triple value and his build path is currently litered with attack speed thus diminishing the item further.

Pierce The VealJun 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Its also capped at 70 damage per hit..... with like 580 AD (give or take); realistically only Jhin could get enough AD to use it to its full potential, but if Jhin is within range of 3 people to activate Dragon's Heart, no amount of DR will save him.

I mean, you can regularly see jhin have that many champions get close to him. People make it sound like Jhin is a piece of paper machete that plays like a perfect kite god, but every now and then you will even see challengers get jumped on/get close enough to the enemy team.

And that much damage reduction is both insiginificant and significant simultaneously. 70 damage off each instance of damage, even pre mitigation, is huge. Add in a death’s dance or something and it will be disgusting, I assure you.

Daddy AntsJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

the damage reduction is PRE resistances.

that makes it a lot worse than you think

Luckily it's coded like an actual damage reduction so It's useless vs True Damage.

Unlike Bone Plating which is coded like a shield.

Darius Camille Chogath Fiora MasterYi Vayne : Sorry, Dragon Heart?

Regardless of that, Spear is capped at 70.

Reducing 70 damage off every auto/ability is op as fuck.

That's BEFORE Dragon Heart.

RocketRelmJun 7, 20181 votes

To be fair, what build are you using that gets you to 70? It's a 10% Bonus AD ratio, which means realistically you're not getting it that high, ever, except on a narrow field of champions.

Neverminding that games don't go long enough to get to full build for that anyway.

Daddy AntsJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, what build are you using that gets you to 70? It's a 10% Bonus AD ratio, which means realistically you're not getting it that high, ever, except on a narrow field of champions.

Neverminding that games don't go long enough to get to full build for that anyway.

My question is

is it 20 + 10% B AD (Maximum 70 total) or is it 20 + 10% BAD (Maximum 70 on the BAD scaling)

If it's #1 you'd need ~500 Bonus AD to get it to the cap?

Only champ I've managed to get that Kind of AD on was Zed

RocketRelmJun 7, 20181 votes

I think you need 500 AD to get it to the cap, and there's a few champs that can hit that.

First, it may be possible with a full glass build, I'm not sure.

Second, I'd say Jhin, Rengar, and Darius are other champions that threaten to overtake that cap, depending on their builds.

ApocalypsicJun 7, 20181 votes

Riven. This item is literally tailor made for her.

Kingslayer RivenJun 8, 20181 votes

Literally

DragonSheaJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Luckily it's coded like an actual damage reduction so It's useless vs True Damage.

Unlike Bone Plating which is coded like a shield.

: Sorry, Dragon Heart?

Regardless of that, Spear is capped at 70.

Reducing 70 damage off every auto/ability is op as fuck.

That's BEFORE Dragon Heart.

This shit needs to have a cap that can be increased by HP so anyone with High AD can Cheese it while tanks can't make use of it.

Make the cap go down to 33 flat damage reduction and for every 1 per 100 bonus HP that cap increase so if you have 2200 more Bonus HP the cap is now 55, making it a good item for bruisers.

Daddy AntsJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This shit needs to have a cap that can be increased by HP so anyone with High AD can Cheese it while tanks can't make use of it.

Make the cap go down to 33 flat damage reduction and for every 1 per 100 bonus HP that cap increase so if you have 2200 more Bonus HP the cap is now 55, making it a good item for bruisers.

How would a bonus hp cap make it non abusable by tanks?

Imagine a Cho'Gath or Sion with a bonus hp scaling Spear?

DragonSheaJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

How would a bonus hp cap make it non abusable by tanks?

Imagine a Cho'Gath or Sion with a bonus hp scaling Spear?

What about it only scaling with HP from Items. meaning that HP scaling from passives or talents will not be used. That would stop them from cheesing it while also ensuring that you are rewarded for building bruiser. Kaisa 's living weapon passive follows the same rule when calculating AD, AP and AS so why shouldn't Shojin also?

Pika FoxJun 7, 20186 votes

The boards cried crit changes were massive buffs. The boards cried pyke was going to be broken OP. Forgive me if i think the boards are full of it and the items will be fine. Riot has a better track record than the boards.

InfernapeJun 7, 20181 votes

Suddenly I'm reminded about 7.21 Galio.

HàrrowRJun 7, 20181 votes

its almost like most of the people here are silver/bronze and dont know shit about what theyre talking about and get offended when you mention their rank

PhearBunnyJun 6, 20184 votes

Look at me with my DD+PD+Ninja Tabi+Black Cleaver+Spear of Shojin+Titanic Hydra. Reeeet reeeeeeeet

ZackTheWaffleManJun 7, 20181 votes

That's my new Mundo build.

Yordle XayahJun 7, 20183 votes

Giving tanks damage is a concept I'll never understand.

Pika FoxJun 7, 20184 votes

Because this isnt an MMO and tanks need damage to function in a MOBA.

Yordle XayahJun 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O81z5eA0,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-06-07T03:16:32.568+0000)

Because this isnt an MMO and tanks need damage to function in a MOBA.

Not with the amount of gratuitous cc they get, no.

Pika FoxJun 7, 20181 votes

Yes, even with their CC. All champions need damage, else theyll just be ignored. Tanks have good, consistent damage so you cant just ignore the tank that just used all their CC, theyre still a threat ontop of you.

And glass cannons die to literally anything because they have no defensive items. Sorry draven, even the enemy support can 1v1 your dumb ass if they hit you first. You built no defenses wtf did you expect?

Yordle XayahJun 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O81z5eA0,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-07T13:35:04.157+0000)

Yes, even with their CC. All champions need damage, else theyll just be ignored. Tanks have good, consistent damage so you cant just ignore the tank that just used all their CC, theyre still a threat ontop of you.

And glass cannons die to literally anything because they have no defensive items. Sorry draven, even the enemy support can 1v1 your dumb ass if they hit you first. You built no defenses wtf did you expect?

If I'm a full AP Syndra, I expect to not be solo killed by the enemy Sion as if he was Lee Sin. I'm not expecting to kill him, but he shouldn't be dueling me and getting away with it.

Pika FoxJun 7, 20181 votes

Your expectations arent grounded in reality. If youre full AP syndra, expect to die to literally anything. Youre a glass cannon, anything should kill you immediately.

HàrrowRJun 7, 20182 votes

You never played an mmo huh,tanks usually even more damage there lol,they just usually need someone to start hitting them first or to get in range

Daddy AntsJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You never played an mmo huh,tanks usually even more damage there lol,they just usually need someone to start hitting them first or to get in range

Tanks on World of Warcraft usually do like 50-60% of an actual damage dealer's DPS.

Tanks on LoL are probably doing like 80-95% of a Damage dealer's DPS. Especially early game.

I'll use 2 examples here.

Ornn and Jax

One is a Tank, One is a Skirmisher.

https://gyazo.com/be211b5e46bee78e7fba3730358e86a8

That's far from acceptable for the amount of Crowd Control and displacement effects tanks possess now a days.

InfernapeJun 7, 20181 votes

One is AoE, the other is single target. If you're hitting 5 people for 20 damage you're going to deal as much damage as another hitting one champ for 100.

Daddy AntsJun 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}

One is AoE, the other is single target. If you're hitting 5 people for 20 damage you're going to deal as much damage as another hitting one champ for 100.

Tanks in my opinion should have enough damage to lane or jungle effectively.

They should not be able to solo fed carries and junglers.

Pika FoxJun 7, 20181 votes

By whos standard? Literally everyone should be able to solo a fed carry, the carry shouldnt be solo. Only vayne and kai sa should be able to 1v1 effecrively. If you build 0 defensive items, youre gunna get clapped.

HàrrowRJun 7, 20181 votes

Yes wow is the only mmo out there,and anyhow i always toped the damage charts with a Tank in dungeons at least

Daddy AntsJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes wow is the only mmo out there,and anyhow i always toped the damage charts with a Tank in dungeons at least

Dungeons...

Where every pull is AOE.

Wizard BlazeJun 8, 20181 votes

atm riot is high on crack. the next patch will be League of Tanks or Tanks of Legends.

SSmotzerJun 7, 20182 votes

Except now that true damage is so prevalent, the 200% damage resistance means nothing. A champion can have ∞ damage resistance and still die to Vayne in only a hand full of auto attacks. Tanks will have no need for the damage resistance because of true damage, and fighters will have a hard time justifying the temperate resistance in place of actual health and resistances.

The only role the spear will be used by is adcs, as a way to not be 1 shot by assassins and burst mages.

DragonSheaJun 7, 20182 votes

Here is what needs to be done. Make the Max HP reduction cap be increased by Bonus HP(1 per 100) That way Skirmishers can't become OP and if they want to get more durability, they should get more HP so they can't scale out of control. Also reduce the max from 70 down to 35.

RainXBladeJun 7, 20181 votes

The fact that it's flat damage reduction that scales with AD already makes it abusable by every single assassin/bruiser in the game.

DragonSheaJun 7, 20181 votes

Darius gets 5 stacks with Spear of Shojin.

https://imgur.com/a/W3zitMQ

My Waifu VanillaJun 7, 20182 votes

Darius gets in melee range of 3 enemy champions to activate the spear [sg-miss-fortune]

DragonSheaJun 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O81z5eA0,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-06-07T17:08:23.862+0000)

Darius gets in melee range of 3 enemy champions to activate the spear [sg-miss-fortune]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIhNEgBc66A