So why are we thinking of redesigning a champion like Ryze when there are others like Gangplank

Salt Miner 49 Er·Feb 6, 2015·1 votes·486 views

Who essentially exist in a limbo of irrelevance?

9 Comments

SEKAIFeb 6, 20151 votes

As a game company, they don't want pirates to be mainstream.

Is my guess.

SaltyToplaneGoatFeb 6, 20151 votes

Let me explain this: it's easier to design flash spells and mechanics for a caster that for a melee fighter/carry.

Also a melee carry is a contradiction in itself. Ranged ADC have their squishyness as a weakness, melee champs do the same damage, but are also resistant as hell, also they need to be mobile, another weakness most adc's have. ALSO they're awesome at splitpushing...

On the other hand how much intersting abilties and mechanics you can build in to a champ who's only aim is cutting you melee with a pirate sabre?

Most melee champs have a terrible kit with no real synergy, full with hidden power stuff... just look at Irelia, Tryndra or GP and compare them to recently released champs. Compared to them they look like an inspirationless and badly designed balls of stats without any special character.

There are only four or five melee champs I consider actually well designed: Riven (although she need a little number tweaking), Gnar, Jayce, Yasuo (poor guy was nerfed into the ground...) and to some degree Zed (if SOMONE would actually fix armor pen and add a short cooldown for his ult shadow so he can't jump right back immedeatly. But apart from that his kit is good.) Oh and maybe Renekton, but I don't know about him exactly.

See these champs? Their kits actually all offer an unique playstyle around the champions weapons and skills. GP on the other hand...

SEKAIFeb 6, 20153 votes

Idk about you, the actual melee carries, there are only 3 of them Yi, Trynd and Fiora and none of them are resilient as hell except Trynd with his ulti.

Rest falls into the fighter category, you're prob thinking about fighters when thinking about melee carries. Since if anything melee carries are just inferior to ranged carries in every possible way except prob scales slightly better.

Your well designed list of champs tho, err how can I say this, it's full of former and current cancer picks...

But I do agree GP's kit lacks synergy and is completely devoid of special character since he is just a poking and buffer machine who hopefully can scale and aa 1 shot people grey scale by mid game.

SaltyToplaneGoatFeb 6, 20151 votes

And why are they "cancerous"? Because compared to others they are actually good designed. Yasuo is not just a right-clack machine. Riven's kit has amazing synergy, as well as Zed's. Some need an number tweak or a really small change of one side aspect of their mechanic, but that's it.

Something similiar also applies to Gnar and Jayce. They offer clear windows of counterplay... unless you play a too linear outdated champ who can literally only do one thing and if they are stgrong against the one thing you lose. Good Design > Bad design.

SEKAIFeb 6, 20153 votes

Overloaded design doesn't mean it's a good design. If you are more versatile with no drawback, more mobile with no drawback or more powerful with no drawback or any of these 3 combined together then it's a bad design, simple as that.

I would rather take an AA champ with clear strength and weaknesses over a champion so spammy he might as well be a 1 man army.

Riven and Yasuo were both broken at some time and they got the nerfs they deserved, overnerfed or not is for another day. Jayce single handedly dominated top lane for a period too not so much now, meanwhile Gnar is still the bane of top lane players to this day.

Yeah having a kit that is twice as big or no cd/resource is fun to play I will be the first to admit, but that does NOT mean it's healthy for the game itself in general.

League is NOT a 2D fighter, it's a stripped down RTS. Any champion that is designed with the idea that the players can do A LOT to EVERYTHING by himself in a game like this, would only have 2 places to go,

Nerfed so hard so no longer relevant. or,
Always up there, always viable, always playable and always strong in all situations disregarding the team comp, counterbuild or counterplay.

SaltyToplaneGoatFeb 6, 20151 votes

They aren't "overloaded".

The old champs are "underloaded".

And honestly, the champs I named are WAY more fun to play and I rather see the old champs getting reworked to get to their level instead of Riot "dumbing down" everything and wasting so much potential with champion design. I honestly have enjoyed almost every rework (apart karma, but let's not start the discussion here) and I really hope that one day every champ will be "overloaded".

Because when everything is overloaded, NOTHING IS xD

Well, "always viable" ain't a problem. If every champ walike this it wouldn't be a problem. Instead of bitching about nerfing stuff that is OP we should consider reworking those champs who are obviously outdated to get them to the same level.

Honestly, if riot would listen to all those Nerf cryers every champ that gets popular once will be nerved to the strenght of a caster minion. Is that the kind of LoL you want to play? I guess not.

SEKAIFeb 6, 20152 votes

What is easier and more practical, rework/nerf the last 10 or so champions with some exceptions from the old crowd.

Or rework those "underloaded" champs, like idk 60 - 70 or more of them altogether in 1 go.

You see the problem? LoL champions were always made with strength and weaknesses in mind, at least attempting to for the most part, until these overloaded champions started to kick in and ruined the balance completely by having extra stuffs with no draw backs to trade it off.

The game nowadays became "who has the better champion" instead of idk skill, teamcomp, plays or synergies? This is what happens every time in pro scene if there was no fotm that suddenly came out due to last changes that made something obvious OP.

There was always meta in this game I know, yes, but were the meta so unforgiving it allows nothing to come out of the new toy box? No. Multiple meta existed and shifted like sands during S1 and 2 until S3 kicked in then it just became worse. More and more overloaded kits were crafted into the game, they did their supposed job well, AND MORE, with NO extra weaknesses on the table and it actually removes the class's fundamental shortcomings in a lot of ways.

So they started to push people out, push the old champs out, push other classes out etc. But for whatever reason their philosophies to keep new shiny champs in check, was instead of nerfing outliners they bat down the whole class, this history repeated again and again into today's balancing state.

Overloaded champions have no place in this game. If you want to add them, that's cool, after you've updated all the previously made champions to a competent level as they are otherwise it's a straight No from me.