Olaf jungle will make a huge comeback, Master Yi will be strong, Nasus, other tank junglers, Tryndamere, and MANY more will be used because they won't fear the Lee Sin having the most retarded mobility mixed in with stupid high damage and a %health execute(seriously riot?).
Cale01725 votes"Master Yi will be strong"
I'm sorry, but I wasn't aware he was weak in the first place.
XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes{quoted} "Master Yi will be strong"
I'm sorry, but I wasn't aware he was weak in the first place.
the item nerf hurt his jungle :(
Cale0171 votesWhich doesn't change that Master Yi was never weak in the first place. And honestly I'm okay with it hurting his jungle. Maybe I'll be able to not have to ban him anymore to keep from having to see one.
MEMEME6701 votesIf you're getting crushed by Yi, the answer isn't to ban him.
It's to get good. Seriously. He has many counters, the easiest of which being cc him for 1 or 2 seconds in a teamfight and then kill him.
Cale0171 votesUnless of course the issue isn't me, but rather idiot teammates who aren't aware of
A) not to push blindly when Yi is jungling or
B) to hit him with CC and shut him down for a few seconds
If I'm playing in the top lane, or the mid lane, or even in the jungle and I'm just not near enough, while my bottom lane is just feeding double after double to him, there's nothing I can do about it. He can get fed so early that even if he's easy to shut down in the late game, he'll be so strong that hitting him with some CC isn't going to do a whole lot when the guy's got several levels and an item or two on you.
You can throw out there the basic excuse of how CC shuts him down (as though it doesn't do the exact same for almost anyone else in the game anyways) but it doesn't change that a fed character is still going to take whatever you throw at them and still track you down to finish the job.
Cale0171 votesIn other words, the reason I'm saying his playstyle is toxic isn't because I don't know how to handle him. It's because he makes it entirely too easy to abuse people who either don't know enough, or aren't skilled enough, to stop him. And that can make a match entirely unfair after he's already gotten fed or has gotten his teammates fed.
MEMEME6701 votesYou weren't saying his playstyle was toxic though. You were saying you need to ban him to not see him in your games.
Which shouldn't be a problem if you can easily beat him, or if your mmr is high.
Cale0171 votesJust because I know how to keep from feeding a Yi doesn't mean people that I get lumped in with do as well. The reason he's toxic is that he can easily stomp people who aren't smart or skilled enough to keep from putting themselves in positions where a Yi can just sweep them. Evenly matched, Yi is easy enough to take down 1v1 if you have some hard CC of your own to lock him down. But if a Yi runs at you with one or two more items, several levels, and 10 kills more than you because other lanes have been feeding him he's still going to take you out as soon as your stun/snare/root fades off and he resumes the chase.
MEMEME6701 votesYou weren't saying his playstyle was toxic though. You were saying you need to ban him to not see him in your games.
Cale0171 votesYes, I need to ban him not to see him in games because the people that I get stuck with in games inevitably feed any Yi who shows up because his playstyle is toxic for idiots.
I don't know how much clearer I can make this for you.
Yi = stupid people feed
me = have to deal with stupid people feed Yi
so me ban yi so no deal with stupid people feed yi
Narasimha17 votesOlaf jungle will make a huge comeback
Yeah..... No.
Kowe The Ewok15 votesLee is setting unrealistic standards #allJunglersAreBeautiful
FyshinaTux8 votesLoL... Then please, explain why Lee Sin can be banned in competitive play, and they still only play from the same list of 3-4 junglers?
Kuroi865 votesThe "meta" fell around a small group of junglers.
Strong early games and with enough skill, still viable and functional late game.
People learned these champs were strong at counter jungling, and thus the late game junglers died out in popularity.
Pretty certain that's why not only have most of the "meta" jungle champs seen numerous nerfs in the last season, but now a more difficult jungle can limit their ability to charge off into the enemy jungle to try and farm the enemy jungler. We've just got to see how things turn out.
FyshinaTux2 votesWhat's funny is... those "late game" tanky junglers have to deal with the same jungle... and from what I've seen, they still can't cope well enough. If an early game jungler ventures into their jungle, whether it be Lee, Kha, or even Vi, the tanky Jungler WILL lose that engagement if their team doesn't respond to pings IMMEDIATELY.
My hypothesis is that the "current" meta junglers will likely remain at the top until they're all nerfed for whatever reason.
We may find some new junglers coming into the fray as well, but I HIGHLY doubt any of them will be the "tanky" late game junglers.
Kuroi861 votesDon't know, we will simply have to see how things fall. Even if the current meta falls, it will simply continue to spiral the way it has before. Nerf the current top tier into unusability and the next highest damage dealers will take their place.
FyshinaTux1 votesWhat's sad, is that it's the hyper-aggressive style that makes tanky junglers not fit in the meta.
Even if they nerf the top junglers right now, the next tier will simply move into the top tier, and we'll still have duelist junglers being good. I feel like the only way that the "Tanky jungler" meta will every return, is if they give tank junglers some manner of actually beating down the duelist junglers in the early game. The only issue here being that they would then lack a particular weakness (strong early game/strong late game).
Just seems like that would be the way of things to me...
Raptamei1 votes{quoted} LoL... Then please, explain why Lee Sin can be banned in competitive play, and they still only play from the same list of 3-4 junglers?
Junglers only need to do 4 things:
Those 3-4 junglers are the only ones that meet all 4 criteria. All other junglers fail at one or more and are therefore not valid picks.
FyshinaTux1 votesYes, that's kind of the point I was getting at... >.>
AnomalousChimera1 votesKha'zix actually does not check all of that since the implementation of the preseason changes.
Hasztalan28 votesIf Lee Sin gets nerfed to being balanced
Which will never happen cuz of "muh e-sportz"...
/endthread
OverpoweredSoap7 votesIdk if I want to see more of Trynd jungle.
KidKaiser6 votestake out his %hp execute. and bam. max rage from Pro's world wide.
Malgana5 votesWhy not just ban him in every game you ever play then? it's the same effect.
Leblancs Boob4 votesI don't know about you guys but i love having 3-4 junglers to pick from because if I pick anything else and the enemy team picks Lee Sin I'll never get to step foot in my own jungle.
chumbler5 votes{quoted} I don't know about you guys but i love having 3-4 junglers to pick from because if I pick anything else and the enemy team picks Lee Sin I'll never get to step foot in my own jungle.
But you should respect the #LCSBIGPLAYS that the Lee Sin might do and consider yourself privileged to be graced by the presence of Riot's golden boy.
redniwediS3 votesBased on the pattern of new champions that are coming out I think it's more likely we will see all those other junglers reach the level of current Lee Sin, rather than Lee Sin nerfed down to their level.
Eyrgos1 votes{quoted} Based on the pattern of new champions that are coming out I think it's more likely we will see all those other junglers reach the level of current Lee Sin, rather than Lee Sin nerfed down to their level.
...no.
Lee Sin is just too strong. It would be inappropriate to balance up to him.
Wiser to tune down him & perhaps a few others than buff up most of the entire roster.
redniwediS2 votesGood idea or not that's how things feel right now to me.
Drogmyre2 votesLee Sin is just too strong. It would be inappropriate to balance up to him.
Much as I hate to say it, no, he's not.
He's too well rounded, not too strong. He does everything at a capable level. He's a decent tank, decent assassin, decent counterjungler, decent jungler, decent everything. He's got good mobility, good damage, good utility, and good CC. He has a good early game and can transition into a utility tank late game (which he's also good at.)
He's a jack of all trades that just happens to be very very good at those trades. He's not broken, he's just super well rounded.
To put it on a scale, Lee is a straight-B champion all across the board. Some champions might have As in certain categories but Cs or Ds in others. Lee is consistently good at basically everything (which isn't a bad thing.)
Nerfing him isn't a good answer. Buffing everyone else to his level might cause problems, but IMO it's healthier in the long run to have every jungler capable of handling Lee Sin without stomping everyone else or being outright OP to do so.
Lee himself isn't oppressive or particularly overpowered, he just dominates the meta by being what he is, a solid, always viable, always reliable champion with a high skill cap and high potential.
IMO buffing champions to be on Lee Sin's level is a better plan, though it's risky.
not a starburst2 votesLee Sin certainly has an A in mobility, and that's basically the straw that's been consistently breaking his kit's back. He has an AoE damage ability that reveals people, a multipurpose slow, and a sustain ability. That's his E, by the way. He does too much too well, yes. This isn't up for debate, really. But he has great mobility, not just good mobility. He can engage with Q, slow with E, and then just dash out with his W if the fight ever goes badly. And that's assuming none of his abilities come off cooldown before the fight ends. He still hasn't used his ult, by the way. And Lee Sin doesn't really have a meaningful weakness as a tradeoff. Leblanc is a squishy who gets destroyed by any chained CC, Fizz gets wrecked if he fails to burst the enemy, and Kassadin struggles hard against AD mids. Lee Sin's weakness is in theory falling off lategame, but the reality is different.
Xtremey3 votesi really dont want to see more yi being played.
Joe Dredd2 votesYou are incredibly stupid if you think nerfing Lee will change anything about the current jungle except remove one champion from viability.
Joe Dredd2 votesDecided to actually read your post, you are incredibly stupid. Lee isn't the factor holding back Olaf jungle. Master Yi is already a good pick. "Nasus, other tank junglers" lol wtf If Tryn is picked, im 95% sure he'll be picked top lane instead of jungle.
hobomann22 votesevery other jungler is some amazing wine and lee sin is the cork
and riot is the retarded winery that want you to eat the cork
SeCKS Egai1 votes[{quoted}](name=Varin Omega,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O1zenx9A,comment-id=,timestamp=2014-12-14T05:57:39.302+0000) Olaf jungle will make a huge comeback, Master Yi will be strong, Nasus, other tank junglers, Tryndamere, and MANY more will be used because they won't fear the Lee Sin having the most retarded mobility mixed in with stupid high damage and a %health execute(seriously riot?).
Why would you ruin your credibility by even mentioning Olaf would make a come back. There's a lot more keeping Olaf out of play than lee sin, namely his outdated kit.
You still see the rest in competitive ranked play, at least as far as the lower elos.
junglerboy161 votesLook at every game where Lee is banned. Right now, the top picks are still people like Xin, Kayle, Pantheon, and J4. Removing one top contender doesn't actually fix as much as you assume, since even when Lee is banned, nobody plays Olaf, Tryn, Yi, or Nasus jungle. Olaf, while decently powerful, just isn't that impactful, and does better in a lane. Same with Tryn and Yi until late game. Nasus could be good in the new jungle because of his life steal, but they would have to make adjustments to how his siphoning strike scales off of monsters (like how Sion gets 10 HP for large monsters, but 2 for small ones) in order to be a better jungle pick than a top lane pick.
Starrow1 votesNot true.
NeoScout1 votesremove his shield and lifesteal, his niche will be, movement and damage and nothing else
chumbler1 votesThe jungle is too shallow to ever have more than like 3 good choices, unless they somehow make only tank junglers the good ones, which is not possible because anything that benefits tank junglers benefits any other junglers way more.
junglerboy161 votes—except totally starving junglers of gold and XP, since tanks don't need as much of that to succeed as say a fighter or assassin.
MattAkhavan1 votesthis isn't true. if lee sin is disabled for a month nothing will change. you'l still see the same junglers just minus lee sin.
Madra1 votesI'm pretty sure that Rek'sai will see competitive play. Just like Azir has started to see play, too. Riot's new goal is to add champion diversity to the game by designing new champions that can do a lot of everything so they can compete on the professional scene.
Spacefight0r1 votesLee has a 47.5% win rate in Diamond. Fiddles has a 57.4% win rate. Are you sure Lee is really the one outclassing other jungle picks?
ImHerVoice1 votesjarvan was popular once. Then he got his EQ gutted by rito gaymes. Now it doesn't knock up people standing directly on the endpoint anymore its great. should see it sometime.
BigIdea1 votessince when did lee prevent these other junglers from being picked? i find i can play whatever i want when i jungle whether or not the opposing jungler is lee. nasus and trynd are not good examples. they pale in comparison to so many junglers, not just lee. i hope riot's balance team makes an independent assessment of lee's power level and doesn't cater to the masses on this one. i understand riot wants to be 'player focused' and heed the voice of the players, but the balance team members are the experts on balancing and the people making unsubstantiated threads such as these along with the other 50 people upvoting all of them are not.
