Elise is my main for jungle. I'm looking for a different type of jungler for when I want something different, or my team needs it.
Which one is safer alone after laning? Which one has safer counterjungling? Is Shyvanna significantly better when behind then Hecarim because Hec is item dependent?
Also for this playstyle, who is more fun? Anything else I should consider when choosing?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 voteswell hec is a carry jungler
shy is crap
MrHaZeYo1 votesLol Shyv is a long ways away from Crap.
She has prolly the best clear time in the jungle, she can move around the map fastly (as can hec), can solo drags without trying, counter jungles like a boss.
Shyv is a better split busher while Hec is a team fighter. Shyv also has great dueling power and decent upfront burst with good sustain damage. Her downfall is if you build her to do this she can't be the engage tool, she needs to be played more like a assassin.
She's also a great duelist. Idk how many times I've destroyed Rengars, Shacos and Kha'Zix as Shyv and I can normally outpace my solo laners in exp early game, but I give up gank pressure to do so. If the opponent can't get successful ganks though I tank their entire jungle so they fall behind.
Shyv may not be meta be she isn't shit either.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesshe is crap and until they really do something she will stay crap
MrHaZeYo1 votesLol, she's a A tier jungler right now.
She lacks strong ganks, and CC, excels at everything else.
If we have a tank meta coming soon, she'll get even stronger.
Either way if she catches a Hec in the jungle, she will kill him no questions asked.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesb- tier at best... she has a sub 50% win rate.. has no cc, is a farm dependent jungler and has the 25th over all win rate for junglers
the changes to jungle this season made farm heavy junglers a handicapped class...
junglers that do best is early game high pressure junglers.
so for you to think she is an A tier jungler is laughable
MrHaZeYo1 votesLol's shes the best Farm Heavy Jungler, and unlike the other junglers she doesn't need much time to get that farm.
She may not have CC but paired with laners who have CC she can gank. The fact you think she is B-Tier is laughable.
S ~ 
- These 3 are the un questioned best in the position atm. While 
and 
are still strong and are more the capable to do whats needed and arguably better at team fights then Kha/Rengo. 
I think WW is somewhere in between S and A atm, Like the latter 3 He's moving on up as the top 2 Rengo/Kha (Ivern and Lee as well) are getting nerfs coming in and Graves comes in due to Lethility and Elise makes it back up due to again the Lethilty Mid laners so they need some AP somewhere, while she is a great early game ganker.
A ~ 
- Now I'm sure you're gonna argue Hec and Vi being only A tier, well its true they are strong, they aren't as good as what they need to do like the 7 above do, Olaf, Rek'sai, and Gragas are tanky junglers but with Lethity being so strong they're pushed out by those top 3. Eve and Shaco are strong assassins but they can fall off late game if the teams now how to play around them Noc seems to be on the rise again due to lethilty but he's not and prob never will be as strong as the top 3 abusers. Finally Zac and Shyv with there niche play styles round out this tier. I've already said why Shyv is strong in the right team, Zac with a slower clear time is a excellent ganker and prob the best tank jungler ATM.
Again Vi, Hec, Shyv are all soloQ junglers, they all provide a different job (Well Hec and Vi are similar) but Shyv is a monster split pusher that most champions outside of fiora can't deal with. Sometimes a jungler doesn't need to be a strong ganker if they can keep the enemy jungler down by counter jungling. Shaco and Shyv are best in class at that. Kha is arguablly strong at it but Shyv can generally assassinate a Kha just as fast as he can kill her, She is by far the best Juggernant Jungler (She might be the only one outside of Skarner)
or 
- Core
- situtional
- fun to mess around with.
Also against squishier teams I like to juice them with Thunderlords as the Precision master is amazing for her as she does duel damage (Physical and Magical) Gives her a boat load of up front damage.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesshe is bottom tier the new jungle does not favor farm junglers
MrHaZeYo1 votesNo bottom tier as far as jungle would be a Zed, someone who has no right to go in the jungle.
I'd say Mao'kai is one of the worst junglers as far as someone who could be viable in the jungle.
Also being a farm jungle doesn't make it a bad jungler, Shyv farms faster then every jungler in the game, she can outpace solo lanes. if a Naut, Shen, Mao are top lane thats a free kill for her.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesyea zed shouldnt be in jungle
sad that maokai is bad in jungle n has been considering he was designed for jungle lol
MrHaZeYo1 votesI feel like you've just had some shitty Shyvs in your games lol.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesdont ever see her. for a reason
sub 50% win rate and being bad lol
MrHaZeYo1 votesDarius has a sub 50%, is he bad?
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votescompared to meta and other top laners atm , yea
MrHaZeYo1 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Shyvana
says 51% this patch.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteshttps://na.op.gg/champion/shyvana/statistics/jungle
49.26% win rate over all
MrHaZeYo1 votesRengo is below 50% so he must be bad?
Shit so does Lee and Hec so bad?
and Elise and Vi bad?
MrHaZeYo1 votesI hope you can see why Win rate doesn't dictate why a champ is good or bad.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesbut it does, and rengar wasnt bad he was broken til they just neutered him
PermabannedGaren1 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NuWTmZxs,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-19T02:46:09.728+0000)
she is bottom tier the new jungle does not favor farm junglers
No, she's average. Master Yi is a bottom tier jungler, other than a troll pick like Janna jungle.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes25th in win rate among junglers would be bottom tier
that means there are 24 other junglers who currently wining at a higher rate then her , not 2 , 5, 8 but 24
CrimsonDawn771 votesOk. Also thanks for helping me with another question =P
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesif you want ajungler that can be more forgiving for mistakes and get tank if need be if you fall behind and be effective i would suggest
hec has to go full damage for the most part getting 
and has a high gold cost to be truly effective...
but VI can do things similar to hec and if you get behind for some reason she actually can be a secondary tank for team. where as hec just dont function the same way.
but if VI gets ahead and fed and gets a 
she can do some real damage and has a way to burst tanks
MrHaZeYo1 votesWhat?
Hec's standard build is
(1 of these boots 
) and a final tank item like
If massively ahead you can go. 
Also you don't build both and as you waste around 1,250 gold on wasted stats (two phage passives)
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesnever said hec gets black cleaver
sighs
i said it works on VI and you get it to help with her armor pen not for the phage passive
MrHaZeYo1 votesYa, that was in reference to what you said about Vi. It's why I added it last. It just common knowledge unless your ok with wasting gold. It's like not building two Sheen items
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votestri dont have armor pen... black clever does...
its not a waste of gold...
MrHaZeYo1 votesYes it is lol, Your overlapping that Phage passive which is worth gold. You pick one or the other.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesONCE AGAIN... YOU ARE GETTING BLACK CLEAVER FOR THE ARMOR PEN NOT THE PHAGE PASSIVE
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
MrHaZeYo1 votesYa I get that dude, your still WASTING GOLD TO GET IT. That gold is gone now and did nothing extreme for you. That armor shred is nice but you still wasted gold to get it.
Think of this, You got Tri, build Phage for BC, go back out on the rift, you now have a item that gives you what 15 AD and 200 HP for 1250 gold? Your missing out on like 400 gold worth of stats cause you already have the Phage passive.
1 AD = 35 gold so 15 AD = 525 gold 1 HP = 2 Gold so 200 HP = 400 gold
925 Gold, you spent 1250, so you wasted 325 gold. Doesn't seem like a lot, but when your going to your next item your 325 gold further away.
Phage itself is 82.7% gold efficent, without the Phage bonus its like 63%.
Tri is 97% BC is 99% but building both moves one down to 80%ish.
So ya if your ok with losing out on overall gold efficient late game, by all means by em both, but you wont be as strong as you could of been. Also seeing how late game doesn't really come as often. I guess its all personal opinion, I'd never buy both. If they're tanky I'd get BC, if squishy i'd get Tri.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesstupid question why dont you show up on my friends list in client ?
CrimsonDawn771 votesI don't know. If I had to guess I'd bet it's a glitch on the new client. Either that or when I'm not on my username is buried in ur friends list somewhere. But the new client is kind of bad, it doesn't give me the option to give ppl in my part inv privileges, and I've been having ip glitches, so another glitch wouldn't shock me.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votestwo basic rune pages you need
AD
9 ad marks 9 armor seals 9 magic resist glphys either 3 ad quints or 3 attack speed quints
AP 9 magic pen marks 9 armor seals 9 magic resist glphys 3 ap quints
CrazyBear19871 votes
Comapred to him, is
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
DoktorKaiser1 votesIf you want early game power clear and invades then play of course when she isnt trash tier. is full late game, his early might be with good damage if you rush triforce but you are squishier than 
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesif you want a true counter jungler
then you are gonna want either 
if you want a true carry jungler
MaeDoSan1 votesHec can carry with good ganks, Shy is afk farming
Linna Excel1 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Hecarim http://champion.gg/champion/Shyvana
Both have comparable win rates, but hec is more often banned right now. Hec gets more kills and assists (he has a better gank), shyvana is a better counter jungler. Hec is tri force into full tank, shyvana can either be full tank (not recommended) or 2-3 damage items plus 2-3 defense items. Hec tends to win the quicker games more, Shyvana is better when the games go longer.
I think the question is do you want to be be able to farm/counter jungle (shyv) or be a mostly tank who can gank (hec).
CrimsonDawn771 votesIf I play Shyv can I just chill and power farm to gain a large advantage in items/lvl and then carry?
Linna Excel1 votesYes but it's better if you counter jungle. Shyv is a pretty good duelist and stealing the enemy's jungle sets him back. If a fight breaks out, there's a 80% chance it's a 1v1 because laners rarely help junglers being countered. Farming your own jungle just isn't worth not setting the enemy team back at all.
MrHaZeYo1 votesShyv is a better counter jungler and split pusher
Hec is a better ganker team fighter. Vi is also a good option.
If you ever build a Tri force on a jungler, build it before you finish you Jungle item, as it'll give you your biggest power spike, earlier you get it the better.
Ex. 
>
> > finishing ( or (if ahead/dont need to be tanky))
You can finish boots before Tri as well, on hec thats a good power spike. Not as big as tri though obviously.
BluePolarizer1 votesHec can invade in a way that isn't giving a free 300 gold to Graves, Lee Sin or Kha'Zix? What Hec are you playing?
NotCounter1 votesshyvana is not that great for hard carrying, or at least there are many situations where she can't teamfight or exercise her lead consistently. her teamfighting potential is conditional and splitpushing isn't always the best thing to rely on in low level