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Petition to remove bond of stone and replace it with something better

Spoofghoul··110 votes·3,595 views

Maybe just replace it with;

Unwavering. Reduces damage received by 2% of missing health after Resistances are applied.

Voila, proper tank keystone scales will with defenses health and health regeneration so its good for any tank or juggernaut.

Or perhaps someone else has a better keystone idea.

But please anything but bond of trash.

EDIT: I have seen a few other good ideas for a new keystone ill quote them here too.

By 6Sfool

Defiance- Taking damage from an enemy champion generates a stack of defiance (dot only applies a stack on the first tick). Upon reaching 3 stacks of defiance, you heal for 10% of your max health. Stacks continually fall off at a rate of 1 every 5 seconds, and triggering the heal disables stack generation for 20-10 seconds (at levels 1-18). The amount of stacks is not visible to enemy champions.

And another one

By DarkRitual

Unbreaking Effects that reduce your Armor and Magic Resist reduce them by 20% less.

Bound in Stone

Obviously neither my suggestion nor these are perfect balance wise, doh, maybe underpowered maybe overpowered but that doesn't really matter it's not the point we want something better then the current one we have.

Anyway i like my keystone idea but i have also seen plenty of people calling it dull or uninteractive since it doesn't really proc anything, and others calling it overpowered which it probably is. But it was more intended as a ''warlords bloodlust'' like option for tanks/juggernauts/fighters.

Anyway ill try to keep updating when i see new good mastery idea's so keep them coming.

Gain 10% of Bonus Armor and Magic Resist when affected by enemy Crowd Control effects.

64 Comments

EROTIC RAID BOSS40 votes

I really don't like your suggestion because like bond, its just boring and invisible. id rather have a proc like the other 2

Dominick Destine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nrrmkh46,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-27T02:27:32.853+0000)

I really don't like your suggestion because like bond, its just boring and invisible. id rather have a proc like the other 2

+1

Champion Skin1 votes

Not only that it is also kind of weird and would probably be difficult to balance... As it would be very effective against repeated low damage hits like DoTs or Zyra plants or something like that.... while being quite bad against big hits like ADC crits or Mage burst or such

(since reducing 750+ ADC crit by 20-80 isn't that amazing... but doing so against like 100-200 damage hits from Zyra plants is way more useful and powerful)

LordGeovanni3 votes

like feror of battle warlord bloodlust and death fire touch windspeakers blessing that speed boost one no one uses grasp of the undyieing and coruage of the colosaus. only really thunderlords decree is focused on being proced by players. some times before level 8 really then it becomes invisible just like the rest

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

courage of the colossus is procced by CC

fervor stacked up and best kept up by staying in combat. warlords is also more effective if youre low hp. basically when you notice the effects of keystones because of the situation you're in or you're using them correctly, they're a lot more satisfying. even windspeakers at least feels better for healers and enchanters because it specifically empowers your heals and shields, but bond of stone is just really boring

LordGeovanni1 votes

courage needs you to at least proc it with hard cc . thunderlords is the same where you ahve to through out a few damageing abilities or auto attack for a short window and is noticeable when it activates the rest of them are all just there and you can forget about them as you play just like bond of stone. and just like bond of stone or the one op suggests you can realise that you have them and play more agressively but they are all invisible just like it.

Spoofghoul2 votes

I see your point

just think of my keystone idea as the warlords option for tanks, that puts it more in perspective it hink

Oglaf9 votes

Soul of Stone

For every 1.000 Health you get a permanent Shield for 10% of your max Health. Recharges after 15 seconds once depleted.

http://funnypictures1.fjcdn.com/comments/Her+daughter+would+never+drink+never+ever+ever+_cffdd169d52250969b7beb4cacbbe4c60.png

FantasySniper2 votes

The exponential health scaling would be impossible to deal with...

RogueWill2 votes

That mastery would be broken on champions that already has a shield. For example Nautilus. Assuming a late 3k HP build you would get a 900HP shield, wait for it to be popped and activate your Titan's Wrath for 600HP. That will yield additional 1.5kHP to Naut making him a 4.5k HP instead of the 3k he has, that is if he only gets one prco of each shield, most likely he will gey 2 since titan wrath CD is similar to the duration.

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

Malphite hmmm

Oglaf3 votes

I agree. Especially after item 3109 being a thing now.

Sherogarth3 votes

Correct me if im wrong but i suppose it works like this: Im 4k max hp tank. I lost 2k hp already. So now every instance of dmg is reduced for me by 2% * 2000 = 40.

The main problem with this is that tanks are supposed to counter burst and be countered by dps. Also what about dot damage?

Anyway I agree that bound of stone should be removed. Its invisible and boring mastery that is also a noob trap right now bc every champion that can use it have much better winrate with CoC than with BoS.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Yes it would work as you described

I figured it be a good tank steroid and work well vs dots and smaller amounts of damage when you get low on health

Which does happen during fight as everyone blows their load and the aoe damage just bursts you down this will help survive after that and keep tanking and it would be a good one for dealing with on hit builds & dots as well as magic dps since there are not many options for these kind of things. It would require more heavy hits to finish you off instead of a lot of little bits of damage, but it's only really effective at low health and with a proper tank build with decent amount of health and at least some resistances. So that adc or mage/assassin of their team will actually have to finish you off rather then the tanks sunfire and the supports basic attacks and some random low damage aoe stuff or dot.

Courage would then be the anti burst option just go in get a big shield absorb the initial damage which gets thrown your way

And grasp can be re tuned as the duelist option, maybe something like 2% damage 2,5% healing more sustain focused but still giving a bit of damage which will be very good in duels and skirmishes.

Champion Skin3 votes

Hmm unwavering doesn't seem that great unless the champion has some ways of sustaining at low HP like % missing health abilities and such

Also unwavering is really bad against high damage things like big ADC crits or mage burst... but it is great against lots of small hits like Zyra plants or DoTs or such (this is because it reduces the damage of each hit by a flat amount depending on missing health)

This means that the mastery would likely be really strong against some champions while almost useless against other champions which might not be all that good as it could make it quite difficult to balance

Lovelle3 votes

Bond of Stone should be replaced with something, but I'm not sure it should be %damage reduction.

%damage reduction belongs further down the resolve tree, like in previous seasons long past. Remember back when we got %damage reduction from both crits and AoE damage in the defense tree? Good times.

Spoofghoul1 votes

bond of stone is a keystone as in the final tier all the way at the top of the tree ^^

DarkRitual1 votes

He's saying there should be a lower tier mastery for flat %damage reudction.

6Sfool3 votes

Defiance- Taking damage from an enemy champion generates a stack of defiance (dot only applies a stack on the first tick). Upon reaching 3 stacks of defiance, you heal for 10% of your max health. Stacks continually fall off at a rate of 1 every 5 seconds, and triggering the heal disables stack generation for 20-10 seconds (at levels 1-18). The amount of stacks is not visible to enemy champions.

Tank champs that take a lot of abuse in the laning phase could use this to not get bullied, and it's a guaranteed heal or 2 in teamfights. It scales well with resistances and health, but it complements health regeneration even better. Ranged toplaners would have to be careful with their poke, either making sure to never reach 3 stacks, or by proccing the heal and attacking during the downtime. Slowing down the poke would make health regeneration more effective.

This would be a less aggressive keystone than courage, and would require more dynamic play on both sides.

How's that sound?

Spoofghoul2 votes

That is actually really good i think,

Ive seen a few other really good ones as well, i think ill edit the original post to include them unfortunately i don't know how to edit the poll i don't think ts possible so it will be a other options vote i guess

But yea this one seems useful for tanks/juggernauts as well

SnowFall2 votes

_**Unstoppable: **_Your body knocks back everyone who touches your hitbox directly and has less movement speed than, you by 50(+5% of your maximum health) units. Cooldown 7 seconds.

DarkRitual2 votes

Unbreaking Effects that reduce your Armor and Magic Resist reduce them by 20% less.

Bound in Stone Gain 10% of Bonus Armor and Magic Resist when affected by enemy Crowd Control effects.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

or maybe sth like "end the suffering"

once the opponent adc reaches 4items your game will automatically deinstall to spare you from further harm.

Nymzo1 votes

I sometimes build Bond + item 3109.

Idk if they stack on each other but if you can, you can absorb up to 18% dmg that your adc take, which is huge.

LordGeovanni1 votes

considering the postion of adcs in relation to tanks that isnt ever gonna be relivant as people rarlely trade without the jungler who will be closer and by the time as you have item 3109 you're in team fights and your position is next to your front line or your mages so bond of stone wont effect the adc unless you are doing nothing for half the fight waiting for an assassin to possibly jump on them. and if you are the only tank on the team as support ( i want to see the item built else wear but if it happens) its gonna be nerfed to levels that there is no reason to pick it up on your champion unless you want to die just so your adc lives in solo que sacrifice gets you harassed because you as the support going 2-8 doesnt have a score like 5-1 evein if your have 14 assists and the other guy has 2.

Nymzo1 votes

I don't build item 3109 on Alistar or Leona since I have Collosus for them instead of Bond anyway.

I only build it on defensive tanky support like Braum or TahmKench.

NahDogSolRahn1 votes

but think of what its like to be in midlane with the enemy ADC and see a Leona with item 3009 item 3109 item 3512 zip up the lane, I laugh so hard everytime, no one is expecting you to move so damn fast.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Now its no better on tanks than anyone else and the adcs now have more tools to survive that assassination

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

I think it should be similar in the nature of its duo synergy but replaced with a better and more visible mechanic.

Kitty Clarissa1 votes

Honestly Grap iis a keystone that just needs an overall change. Its nerfed to the point to where champs who can use CoC will take it instead. Imho BoS is good enough for early game and KV will make it better.. Honestly If grap was a mastery that healed you for a % ammount of hp for withstanding x amount of damage and next attack will recover that hp that would make it at least better for bruisers who dont have hard CC like Garen Kled
thats just me doh and it would likely be abused by other champs but its just an idea.

HazyCloud71 votes

Replace it but not with something as busted as you suggested.

LankPants1 votes

Reduces damage received by 2% of missing health after Resistances are applied.

This has some major problems, the main one that sticks out to me is Ashe. She will always lose damage by activating her Q into an enemy with this keystone, since her Q makes her deal ~30% damage 5 times this would apply 5 times.

Let's say the target has 3k HP and 200 armour and Ashe hits for 500 with a normal crit AA.

-without Q=0.33x500-60=105 -with Q=(0.25x0.33x500-60)x5=0, technically -94

Yes that is correct, in this case Ashe would literally deal 0 damage because of how strong post mitigation flat resistance is.

Champion Skin1 votes

Ehh obviously Ashe wouldn't lose damage while using Q if the target is at 100% HP.... since it is based on missing health and as thus as no effect at all while on full hp

Though yes it is really good against multiple hits like Ashe Q or DoTs and such while being really bad against powerful hits

LankPants1 votes

In the case of 500 damage crit Ashe you'd need 2063 missing HP to be completely immune to her. That's not OK at all.

PB4UAME1 votes

And at least 200 armor* don't forget.

LankPants1 votes

Most tanks and Juggernauts build up towards 300 armour and build Randuin's, which even further reduces this number.

PB4UAME1 votes

Build up towards 300 armor? No, not really, they don't. Building Randuin's Omen, Sunfire Cape and a Deadman's Plate, using half of all of your item slots for armor at the cost of everything but health, will only give you 160 armor. If you throw in Ninja Tabi and a fucking Thornmail (who really builds this anymore anyways?) and you still are just shy of 300 armor built, at 290. Oh, and you've used 5 item slots on pure armor.

Oh wait, and did I mention, all of this is pre-armor pen? Adding in that young Last Whisper, and now we're back down to. . . 203 armor. Make it into a Lord Dominik's Regard and that armor is now 159.5, oh, and Ashe's damage is increased by 15% as well, which more than counter acts Randuin's lowering crit damage by 10%.

So yeah, I have no clue what you're talking about, but even at a 5 item pure armor build, no champion, after armor pen is building more than 160 armor, let alone "towards 300" on "most" tanks-- never mind the fact that building that much armor and and no magic resist or damage isn't really viable on any juggernaut.

Terchio1 votes

I do like the idea of Unwavering. It'd play like Poppy's old passive, and I don't think that's a terrible thing, but it did have some extremely annoying counters, such as DoT (which would be OP or UP, depending on how that's applied over this passive). However, that should take CotC's place, as that will never balance properly since it's dependent so heavily on kits, and can't be procced in any way that I'm aware with items or general champion attributes. Bond of Stone, while a bit boring, can at least be dependent on champion location, and more importanly, will be the supporty choice in the Resolve Tree.

Also, while I do mention the "boring" factor, I hate the idea of it. Masteries are supposed to be boring. They're general, basic attributes for champions, but now everyone and their dog (Nasus) can use a thunderbolt as they please, and the game starts catering toward those who make it easier to proc it. I hate that the game becomes "Who can abuse this keystone the most?". At least "5% more damage dealt" is generally equivalently abusive to a large number of champs, as is basically anything in the tree above the keystones (in most cases).

Champion Skin1 votes

Unwavering would kind of be the opposite of Poppy passive While Poppy passive took 10% of her current health and reduced all the additional damage by 50% meaning it was really effective at stopping mages with high damage but high cooldown abilities or other big hits like crits but doing basically nothing against DoTs or lots of small hits

Unwavering would be the opposite in that it would give a flat reduction on each hit based on missing health meaning that it would be really powerful against DoTs and lots of small hits (like Zyra plants or something) but have very little effect on big hits like ADC crits and mage burst This would potentially make it quite difficult to balance (making it useful in general without making it absurdly strong against DoT champions)

Terchio1 votes

Hmm unwavering doesn't seem that great unless the champion has some ways of sustaining at low HP like % missing health abilities and such

Or basically Poppy old passive. Poppy passive was only annoying because you could live forever at 100 HP, I'd know, I played it a good bit. In fact, despite spells getting the strongest damage drop on old Poppy, it was about the only way to finish her off on a true regeneration build, as autoattacks would just make her defenses and regeneration stronger at 50 HP instead of finishing the job. Even at its strongest, Poppy only blocked less than 50% of all damage, so unless your sustain was impossibly high, you tended to float around 100-400 HP, not enough to survive a caster. When you're that low, the 10-40 mandatory damage taken doesn't mean a whole lot, and the majority of every autoattack is still in the block zone.

And again, DoTs are either OP or UP, depending on how it applies to the passive. However, let's be real, DoTs would not deal 12% missing HP less damage (or more) to any champion who gets this mastery, it's simply not happening. As such, DoTs would probably be excluded from this mastery, and therefore actually be a counter, unless some countermeasure was adapted. However, they'd probably keep the DoTs out of the mix, just to keep the skill from being too challenging to understand.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

After Resistance is applied? Flat amount reduction (as in x - y rather than x - (y%x))? That could nullify damage. Don't really see them implementing that.

FancyKiwi1 votes

Why not replace it with SoA?

MinaZer01 votes

I like the suggestion of another keystone to replace BoS, a tank support as leona can simply buy item 3109 and have CotC, its alot more effective.

Legendsofthedark1 votes

I'd like a new keystone, but not the one you recommend, as that one has the same inharent fault as the Bond of Stone. I'd prefer something more interactive than just a bundle of stats. Something triggerable with (hopefully) animation.

GigaPube1 votes

you just somehow managed to suggest an even more boring keystone, on top of making it confusing and unclear. 2% of missing health, so if a 4000 hp tank has 20 hp left, the only thing that can kill it is....2% of 99.5% of his health? or his missing health? so that means it takes 80 damage to kill a 20 hp tank, if he had absolutely 0 resistances? meaning......anything less than 150 damage or more would do a flat 0 damage because its not 2% of his missing health and the resistances are already applied?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Honestly, I kind of love bond of stone... it is LESS interesting now that we have knight's vow though. I will give you that much cred.

Jabberwöcky1 votes

Perhaps a Keystone that reduces True Damage?

Doozku1 votes

I agree. Make it something for divers since support tanks can already use coc.

ItsOrval1 votes

Petitions dont work in Rito's community

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