That can 1v3 late game with ease.
Dw I'm not biased against Renekton, there are others doing the exact same thing. Rene just used to be the poster-boy "early game dominance" champ that fell off and basically became a tanky CC bot late game so he's the best example of how much the meta and new additions like Conqueror and Spear have warped scaling.
Jinzo Torrance31 votesDon't worry, they're reworking Pantheon (the last true lane bully that falls off) so he can do that too.
Z3Sleeper13 votesHopefully they just make his Q his right click and his new Q an empowered version of that auto so he can run klepto and attack melee top laners with manaless ranged auto attacks for free harass and gold.
We need more champions like that.
Or just turn him into a better Spear user. No cooldown click target stuns are always fun and it could proc his passive every time.
5StackUltOneShot2 votes[{quoted}](name=Jinzo Torrance,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-06T18:12:08.331+0000)
Don't worry, they're reworking Pantheon (the last true lane bully that falls off) so he can do that too.
Incoming if you hold down Q your spear deals triple damage and sets the enemy on fire procing kleptomancy
Also 150% AD Shield
Lucian Waifu16 votes
can only bully if he is an item ahead, if he is bullying 1v3 then those 3 are either too underfed or playing that fight extremely wrong.
Disembark1 votesDepends on who the 3 are. A non-fed but not-behind Renekton can easily 1v3 at 2 items a Support+Jungle+ADC if he is able to 1-shot the ADC, depending on the support champ and jungle champ.
(A Kaisa+Nami+Elise can easily get 1v3d with a small misstep from Kaisa, an Ezreal+Braum+Xhin will not).
Colton1471476 votes
Z3Sleeper22 votesI thought Riot said URF makes people leave League. Wonder why they made URF an item then :thinkingface:
nGio2 votesI thought Riot said URF makes people leave League. Wonder why they made URF an item then :thinkingface:
Let's be fair. URF brings people back to League. URF going back in the vault makes those people go back to whatever game they were playing before URF.
King Shadow Lord3 votesNo, they said that the numbers show that not just the returning people but long-time players leave due to URF. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/12/ask-riot-urf/
nGio2 votes[{quoted}](name=King Shadow Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T23:05:52.307+0000)
No, they said that the numbers show that not just the returning people but long-time players leave due to URF. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/12/ask-riot-urf/
So URF brings in a bunch of players who otherwise don't play(like myself and several rl friends), then loses those same players plus some people who were playing LCS Simulator prior to URF's arrival? So basically, during URF the player base is at it's absolute HIGHEST, but for some reason they vault the game mode.
Now you'll probably parrot some more bullshit Riot rhetoric about "but players could have too much fun and get burned out", "player feedback", or "but the old client". It would make more sense to offer URF permanently if it brings in and retains more players. But URF isn't LCS, and Riot is all the fuck in on pushing customers into watching LCS or playing LCS Simulator like the pros do. They need VoD hits, and a new crop of kids eating the ranked placebo and shitting themselves for near meaningless borders.
Ranked is shit for many reasons, and none of them have anything to do with the vaulted RGMs that a lot of players would rather be playing.
LordGeovanni2 votesYou mean they leave after URF is gone because the actual game is a poor mans URF.
Edit ^^ i wrote that even before i clicked on your link and read what was said and i guessed right.
Moody P5 votesthis isn't new or unique among top laners lol
MalignMetal2 votesMeta Toplaners ,FTFY
Z3Sleeper1 votesYup, it's not a Renekton only issue. He's just the only one that was specifically labelled an early game lane bully.
Romans VI XXIII5 votesSoly because of this item allowing him to be a late game champ as well.
And Conq makes him an even stronger early game, and late game lol.
D357R0Y3R2 votesan item making him able to reduce cooldowns for 5 seconds after using ult will IN NO FUCKING WAY make him a late game champion
a late game champion is a champion like Jax who can deal 10k damage constantly forever
Romans VI XXIII1 votesLOL, no one said he was Jax tier late game. The Fact remains he is strong late game due to SoS, and Conquer. That is just a fact bud, accept it.
Renektons late game (Past 25 mins) win rate has gone up 5-8% since SoS release. And it went up 1-3% throughout with the Conq changes.
U R Good At Game1 votes[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-05-07T20:17:42.275+0000)
Renektons late game (Past 25 mins) win rate has gone up 5-8% since SoS release. And it went up 1-3% throughout with the Conq changes.
Yeah that's good lol. No champion should be balanced to where you just auto-lose because the enemy picked a stall comp. Do we want rock paper scissors or not? Looking at his graph: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/renekton He still clearly falls off after his early power spike.
Dingding1234 votesAs someone who has gotten gold/plat every season with primarily Renekton since his release (more recently on another account), I can say with confidence that the croc can make use of some pretty goofy runes and while only somewhat giving up his early game bully mantle actually have a really good lategame.
Celerity + Nimbus + Relentless Hunter + Phase Rush/Arcane Comet (yes, with !) is fun; they let him roam around the map with ease once he has a bit of KP and either of those keystones are pretty good in lane considering Ren's abilities are all instant. He can rush Youmuu's or DMP with those runes and despite never finishing t2 boots still become a roaming machine, although against Vayne etc. 
is pretty mandatory. My favorite items with said runes right now are either double Doran's + Youmuu's + Sunfire which may sound awful together but Youmuu's active complements Sunfire really well or actually finish t2 boots + Titanic or Spear + DMP, which is just as oppressive as it sounds. With either build he becomes beefy and extremely mobile while also having a good amount of burst.
I'm not about to say Renekton's as broken as some other top laners (his WR isn't quite 51%), but it is hilarious how in a season with an already short average (meaningful) game length he can be amazing lategame anyway. It really speaks volumes about the current state of the game - champions can pretty much have their cake and eat it too.
Z3Sleeper1 votesI'm not about to say Renekton's as broken as some other top laners, but it is hilarious how in a season with an already short average (meaningful) game length he can be amazing lategame anyway. It really speaks volumes about the current state of the game - everyone can pretty much have their cake and eat it too.
Yeah it's a really great time. I don't think Rene is way up there on the list of champions that are out of line. I reserve that for every single viable safe ranged top lane lane bully with self-peel CC right below Riven who is finally being addressed.
Sucction1 votesAs someone who has gotten gold/plat every season with primarily Renekton since his release (more recently on another account), I can say with confidence that the croc can make use of some pretty goofy runes and while only somewhat giving up his early game bully mantle actually have a really good lategame.
Celerity + Nimbus + Relentless Hunter + Phase Rush/Arcane Comet (yes, with
I'm not about to say Renekton's as broken as some other top laners, but it is hilarious how in a season with an already short average (meaningful) game length he can be amazing lategame anyway. It really speaks volumes about the current state of the game - everyone can pretty much have their cake and eat it too.
Why is tabi mandatory against Vayne compared to other adcs?
Vayne is literally the one ADC it will do the least against.
Z3Sleeper1 votesI'm surprised you got that far. I'm still stuck on the Phase Rush/Arcane Comet thing.
FCJAAAAGOOOO4 votesWhy is tabi mandatory against Vayne compared to other adcs?
Vayne is literally the one ADC it will do the least against.
Counterpoint: without T2 boots, Vayne is one of the only marksmen that Renekton can't possibly catch.
Counterpoint 2: despite the true damage, literally all Vayne does is autoattack.
Counterpoint 3: Vayne is one of the only marksmen that people play toplane.
Sucction1 votesCounterpoint: without T2 boots, Vayne is one of the only marksmen that Renekton can't possibly catch.
Counterpoint 2: despite the true damage, literally all Vayne does is autoattack.
Counterpoint 3: Vayne is one of the only marksmen that people play toplane.
Counterpoint: you die in 6 auto attacks either way.
ModAcademy Kayn4 votesYou mistake the idea of an early game champion. An Early Game champion means they have a gameplay pattern that makes them best suited for laning scenarios. Their primary strengths are in situations where they don't need to think about anything but killing the folk right in front of them. Where they suffer, is their ability to contribute to teamfights, or traverse teamfights.
They never get any worse at their ability to kill, they're simply put in to situations late game where their strengths early game are no longer relevant, like Renek's ability to Dash-Stun-Damage-Dash out, with little reprecussion to himself. This same strength isn't found late game, where ideally, everyone should be grouping up as a team. Renek, if he got ahead, should still have kill potential all the way to late game, but that doesn't make him a sitting duck once he gets there, if he's still ahead of the other champions.
Same as Pantheon, he never loses his ability to kill people, he simply loses his strengths to poke you in lane with his spear, and his dedicated combo-stun. Still just as likely to kill late game, but he's not going to have those one-sided strengths like in laning. Same as Illaoi, her having her tentacles all around her in lane, but less likely when moving with a team, but she can still kill you regardless.
Z3Sleeper7 votesYou assume I'm mistaken. You assume wrong.
If you simply look at Renekton from that point of view, you'd see what I'm saying still holds true. Renekton used to have limited target access -- being that he only has a moderate range dash on a long-ish cooldown that can only be cast twice if it hits someone. This means to get to the back line he had to barrel through the front line which wasn't easy to do with how modest tenacity and healing were back then. Thus he built tanky so he could survive late game teamfights enough to put out at least some damage (with his ult, Q and Sunfire) and serve as a CC bot if he could close the gap on any priority targets.
Now fast forward to today. Everyone is a valid target due to Conqueror and BC. He can't waste his spells on non-priority targets because Spear has them right back up after a W and an auto. Thus his mobility is also not being gated, meaning he's dashing around more and able to access priority targets more easily. He can't be as easily killed when building damage anymore due to a combination of Legend: Tenacity + Steraks + Merc Treads (if necessary, not always all 3) and his overbuffed Q healing combined with Conqueror and Death's Dance's broken interaction together with AoE spells. And ofcourse BC shredding everyone during his rampage.
So 1) his damage doesn't fall off and 2) his viability in teamfights doesn't fall off either. Both scale much more as the game goes on now.
Aaand onto Pantheon, he is the exact opposite.
His damage does actually fall off. He needs to build bonus AD to scale whatsoever (due to the tAD ratio on E being removed) but doing so just isn't a viable option. Sadly the meta is so warped that building actual tank items and being a CC bot is no longer an option, so instead he builds BC, GA, EoN and Steraks to unload as much damage as possible while still having more health to tank at least two or three more attacks but with no sustain to back it up.
His teamfight presence for the above reasons is absolutely lacking. Either he performs like a jank assassin/diver and kills someone only to immediately die afterwards or he simply does some damage then dies or he serves as a mediocre peel for the ADC (the latter being the most viable option, which is why you tend to see Pantheon in the support role most of the time). While he does have the BC AoE shred like Rene his is a short range channel that isn't helped out by a double dash re-positioning -- it's harder to land on multiple targets and half the time it gets cancelled or they walk out of it.
This is why Panth is being reworked. He's gonna be changed to somehow fit into this damage + sustain meta.
Sasogwa1 votes[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=No9Yhfx8,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-05-07T00:28:53.676+0000)
You mistake the idea of an early game champion. An Early Game champion means they have a gameplay pattern that makes them best suited for laning scenarios. Their primary strengths are in situations where they don't need to think about anything but killing the folk right in front of them. Where they suffer, is their ability to contribute to teamfights, or traverse teamfights.
They never get any worse at their ability to kill, they're simply put in to situations late game where their strengths early game are no longer relevant, like Renek's ability to Dash-Stun-Damage-Dash out, with little reprecussion to himself. This same strength isn't found late game, where ideally, everyone should be grouping up as a team. Renek, if he got ahead, should still have kill potential all the way to late game, but that doesn't make him a sitting duck once he gets there, if he's still ahead of the other champions.
Same as Pantheon, he never loses his ability to kill people, he simply loses his strengths to poke you in lane with his spear, and his dedicated combo-stun. Still just as likely to kill late game, but he's not going to have those one-sided strengths like in laning. Same as Illaoi, her having her tentacles all around her in lane, but less likely when moving with a team, but she can still kill you regardless.
No that's wrong. Earlygame or lategame is completely independent from role. Renekton used to be a good laner that actually fell off in lane, and in the 1v1, to finally only have a true teamfight stunbot tank lategame, which was actually fair, considering his crazy early damage. If we take another example, Nasus, he's garbage earlygame but scales to become an excellent laner and splitpusher by midgame. You seem to completely forget that there are items or scalings that make patterns less relevant. Panth can poke you early because you can't trade back or all in back. When it's mid/late game he simply can't do that EVEN IN THE 1V1 because you just all in and kill him. Champions stay the same but patterns change according to game time, even outside of teamfighting and even if no objectives have been taken on the map.
Lovelle3 votesOnly because armor and mr have literal awful scaling, coupled with the defensive rune page being terrible in general. If counter-building had any real value he would fall off by around the 15-20 minute mark, along with all those cheesy bursty type champions (assuming they didn't end the game before that point).
Need Gold 4 Tent2 votesThe problem is Renekton isn't even as strong a lane bully as he should be and loses to a lot of matchups that he shouldn't be losing to. Quoting RTO: "He's a midgame monster" which is roughly (yes as you said) the Shojin power spike. Not too different from Nasus ironically as Nasus also spikes midgame with his Triforce and ~400 stacks but falls off later due to lack of mobility, at least until super super lategame and that's only because he 1 shots turrets, not because champions are scared of him.
The irony is, lategame dawg spikes earlier than he should, and falls off when he shouldn't while the early game croc takes longer to spike than he should and doesn't fall off as hard as he should.
Z3Sleeper1 votesHe’s talking comparatively to other similar top laners such as Riven and safe ranged top laners.
Nowadays those are all lane bullies on par with Rene, which also shouldn’t be a thing.
TheHoodOfSwords1 votes1v5*
Sire Hippington1 votesunless the 3 contain a peeling sup/tank and an adc...
hoganftw1 votesThe difference between Renekton and Panth though is that Renekton can actually survive long enough and usually reach his targets to basically oneshot them.
Z3Sleeper1 votesAnd maybe one or a few of their nearby friends, especially when Renekton's team is also present.
Saezio1 votesIn all these scenarios you make... What champions do the enemy team have? 5 Ranged minions? Why isn't anyone stunning and killing him?
Any peeling support worth their salt can peel a renekton away from the adc in a 5v5 fight with half their kit. It's not like he is 
Z3Sleeper1 votesWitnessing firsthand or simply watching RTO will answer this question better than me talking hypothetically.
Galaxyburstz1 votesDid someone watch Voyboy's latest video? [sg-ahri-2]
Z3Sleeper1 votesNo :O
Sorry Voy.
Meteora7071 votesDw I'm not biased against Renekton, there are others doing the exact same thing. Rene just used to be the poster-boy "early game dominance" champ that fell off and basically became a tanky CC bot late game so he's the best example of how much the meta and new additions like Conqueror and Spear have warped scaling.
I mean its been a very long time since that's what renekton was, think it changed in season 4? not sure.
Z3Sleeper1 votesNo the Renekton bar was removed then. That’s a whole different thing. Essentially Rene then was so good that he was unbeatable except by one or two champs that I can’t remember atm.
But no, lane bully has been and still is a thing via PtA, but most have given that up for the much better scaling viability of the new healing Conqueror.
Meteora7071 votesthe "renekton bar" removal was basically making him a lot better late game while nerfing his early, he also got changes in the same direction afterwards so it seems like that was the intended direction for him all along. they have gone a little bit overboard with it rn but ya know I'm kinda glad rene is back in the meta at the same time.
Z3Sleeper1 votesYeah it’s nice that he’s in the meta after being cucked so hard by several early nerfs but this just ain’t the way to do it.
Meteora7071 voteseh personally I enjoy champions power being more close to each other, the "I'm strong early game and you can't do anything" and "now I'm strong cause we passed 10 min mark and you can't do anything" isn't really for me, champions being around the same power at all times offers a more interesting laning phase.
Jingerbeardman1 votesummm yeah they know and hes meant to be that way. You are supposed to pressure him and hold him back without going balls to the wall all the time giving him an advantage...
LordGeovanni1 votesriven is a late game hyper carry that does what renekton does early game while taking less damage. good thing she doesnt have healing despite ignoring damage with shield but dammit she bought a vamp scepter and her only supposed weakness is gone.
U R Good At Game1 votesI mean I like it better than just auto-losing the game past 20m.....did you see renektons old win rate vs time duration chart? It basically said if they don't ff at 20 you lose...
His new win rate vs game duration chart is pretty balanced if you ask me and it clearly still shows that he falls off reaching near 40% in the mid-game it's just not an auto lose anymore: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/renekton
