Why am I losing 20 LP for this?
EDIT: Next game, my auto-filled support is trolling, so I dodge. Following game, top picks Annie into Singed and spends the entire game telling the enemy team where our fucking jungle is and spamming pings.
TheNeemDream15 votesWhat I don't understand is that people never seem to realize that the other team is just as likely to have these trolls on their team. The trolls aren't the reason you can't climb, inconsistent play is. If you consistently play at a level above your rank then you will climb higher as the odds will even out. If you want LP decreased for a loss for having a troll on your then you should receive less LP for winning a game with a troll on the opposing team, otherwise it will be much easier to climb in ranked.
PhDs Nuts5 votesWhat I don't understand is that people never seem to realize that the other team is just as likely to have these trolls on their team. The trolls aren't the reason you can't climb, inconsistent play is. If you consistently play at a level above your rank then you will climb higher as the odds will even out. If you want LP decreased for a loss for having a troll on your then you should receive less LP for winning a game with a troll on the opposing team, otherwise it will be much easier to climb in ranked.
This argument is irrelevant until you've played nearly 1,000 games.
Sp33d Zer06 votesThis argument is relevant if you have played 20 games. There are 5 people on the enemy team who can troll, and 4 on yours. Ex: I am currently stuck in gold 2 despite being plat for several seasons. I have had trolls on my team, but I am not playing well enough to be in plat atm, and I recognize that. Instead of crying to the boards about it, I try to focus on my play, and even in games where my team trolls, use it as a way to practice my kiting.
Supreme Senpai694 votesThe 50% chance argument falls short barring a large sample size. That's just how stats work. If you play consistently your level of skill, then you will reach your deserved rank, <across an infinite amount of games.> 20 games you can have 10 trolls. It doesn't even out until you have a large amount of games played.
Snowman Arc2 votesWell, based on pure mathematics, you would need an infinite amount of games for the perfect balance. You can play 100 games, or 1000, or 10k, still it wouldn't balance out. Point still stands, if you believe you are good, or at least better than what your division shows, you can climb, even with trolls. Last season, I was playing flex with my friends (3 / 4/ 5 man), and most of them are just not good enough. Still, I managed to get to Gold 2 with a 58% win rate in 260 games, because my skill level is not Silver freakin 5 (my 10 placements), but it's at least Gold2.
Pr0Meister2 votesWhat I don't understand is that people never seem to realize that the other team is just as likely to have these trolls on their team. The trolls aren't the reason you can't climb, inconsistent play is. If you consistently play at a level above your rank then you will climb higher as the odds will even out. If you want LP decreased for a loss for having a troll on your then you should receive less LP for winning a game with a troll on the opposing team, otherwise it will be much easier to climb in ranked.
Statistics 101 would like to point out that your statement, while true, can take hundreds, even thousands of games. And as avid a gamer as I am, I don't think even students with all their supposed free time should waste THAT much trying to compensate for every afk and troll they encounter.
TheNeemDream2 votesStatistics 101 would like to point out that your statement, while true, can take hundreds, even thousands of games. And as avid a gamer as I am, I don't think even students with all their supposed free time should waste THAT much trying to compensate for every afk and troll they encounter.
Statistics also say that the odds of getting 5 trolls in a row (or 5 games where a teammate trolls before getting 1 where the enemy trolls) is a statistical rarity. You are much more likely to get the same number of trolls on your team as on the enemy team than to consistently be placed with a troll on your team.
The real problem is that people notice and remember when there is a troll on their own team but are much less likely to remember a troll when it is on the enemy team. This skews the perception of trolls/feeders/afkers on your own team and a huge sample of the league population goes around screaming "woe is me!" when in reality they have likely had even numbers of trolls on the enemy team.
Dynikus14 votesbecause you're on their team. You complain a lot, but you also have bad games, just like that toplaner. I don't think your team appreciated when you went 3/9/4, or 2/8/4, or 2/6/1.
Privileged Jew15 votesbecause you're on their team. You complain a lot, but you also have bad games, just like that toplaner. I don't think your team appreciated when you went 3/9/4, or 2/8/4, or 2/6/1.
Nice red herring and ad hominem. The fact that he has bad games doesn't address the point of the post, which is "why am I getting penalized for afkers and feeders."
Add in a nice "tu quoque" as well.
Supreme Senpai699 votesOne game I went 3/0/2 5 minutes in. Our top laner went 0/9/1 though so when laning phase ended, no matter my "skill" or early game lead, I quickly became something like 4/9/3 and we surrendered. As a team game your KDA isn't a reflection of skill. If anything it even proves OPs point. If his top feeds then come teamfights he's gonna get wrecked.
Anidan3 votesSounds like a team game to me. Someone feeds the enemy, that enemy wrecks house. The wreckage is not exclusive to top lane. Everyone has to be up to par in terms of skill, which is why we have the divisions.
Which is why the divisions fail, thanks to no shortage of boosted players letting these kinds of matches become even worse, on top of standard-issue feeders and AFKs.
Supreme Senpai691 votesYes. But did you look at who I was replying to?
I don't think your team appreciated when you went 3/9/4, or 2/8/4, or 2/6/1.
I was just replying in context of that, not making any generalizations though
An Undead brat1 votesThank you.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesIts not a red herring or ad hominem, even though it seems like it. It actually uncovers a pretty standard issue, at least in regards to the feeders.
Sometimes he is the one who is feeding. In other games, he isnt the one who is feeding but someone on his team is. In his victories, often someone on the enemy team is feeding. The point may be "why am I getting penalized for feeders" without taking into account that its a 5v5 game. In almost all his games, someone in the game is feeding. Its just how the game is played - a good player will make his opponent into a "feeder" even if the opponent doesnt generally play poorly. Coupled with the fact that every player has bad games and the team with the feeder often loses, its really not getting punished at all - its just the nature of the game.
Getting a feeder is random. Going against a feeder is random. Part of the game depends on whether or not, on average, you can overcome the deficits of your team while minimizing the strengths of the enemy. You cant expect a 5v5 game like League to have its outcome solely determined by your own play. If you want your own skill and no other factor to determine your win conditions, youre looking for a PvE or a 1v1 PvP type of game. If you want a game where you dont get "punished" by feeders, maybe play Hearthstone or Starcraft.
1M Gold Udyr XD1 votesYou are not getting penalized for someone else feeding or afking. Losing -20 LP isn't a penalty. It is not a currancy, it is not a stat.
LordGeovanni1 votesit actually is those less so the first 2 but definitely the last one
LordGeovanni1 voteshow about for the same reason he isnt getting tripple punishment when he feeds because everyone has bad games (and some classes are actually designed to get kills wether its ks or not and some arent)
Hrd2H1t32 votesDID YOU KNOW THAT
If a teammate has 8 deaths, that means the enemy team has at least 8 more kills, meaning even if you are playing well, they can kill you more.
NOW YOU KNOW THAT
ChaoticPinecone18 votes....okay, lets take that as an argument and see if it has any merit.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2400867305/374094?tab=overview Jungle Vi game where he went 4/9/7. Gave up first blood a little over 4 minutes in.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2400759380/374094?tab=overview Brand support where he went 4/9. Gave up first blood a little over 2 minutes in.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2400648701/374094?tab=overview Ziggs mid where he went 1/7. Seems to be the one game where he didnt feed early but his sidelanes fed, and it leaked into his lane.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2398181949/374094?tab=overview Diana jungle when he went 3/9. I think he was just outclassed in the jungle - he did the the second lowest damage on his team (his support did 100 less) while the enemy Graves jungle went 12/6 and did the most damage on his team.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2396755215/374094?tab=overview Ziggs mid where he went 1/6. He was the one feeding kills to the jungler early (2 deaths), who influenced an even toplane (one kill each), who ended up snowballing.
It seems like the one game he was referencing in his original post (the Ziggs game where he went 1/7) is the only one where the situation you described happened. In most of his other feeding games, he is directly responsible in the game snowballing against him.
Warlord Zudane10 votesStop bringing facts into this, you'll start to make people think that they might be doing something wrong and could improve on it or something.
Dirty Bastard1 votesLordGeovanni1 votesexcept after the 3rd death with no kills they dont give any type of gold worth worrying about. so 2 deaths arent anything to btch about nor is anything after.
Troll for Trump10 votesAt least those indicate that he might actually be trying.
If you have 0 kills and assists, with 8 deaths, you're probably inting or trolling
Skorch3 votesNot necessarily especially in top.
Snowman Arc2 votesNot always. I have a 8-1 win rate on Maokai at the moment, and I never troll. I never int, I never do stupid stuff to give enemies an advantage, even if I want to intentionally lose a game. (I have a smurf account that I wanted to be bronze 5, but I still couldn't troll to lose the games. I ended up doing 7-3 in my placements, ending up in G4). The only loss I have on Maokai is vs a Jayce, where I got ganked 3 times in the first 5 minutes by a Shaco, losing my TP and Flash in the process and dying twice. I couldn't escape the gank, since Shaco becomes invisible and Jayce is just too strong. Afterwards, Jayce was just one shotting me even if I was under tower, because he was level 7 and I was level 4 with 30 cs down.
Now, I had two choices. Stay in lane and die whenever Jayce felt like it, or stay in base to avoid feeding. Some games are just that bad, depending on the match up. The most OP top laner at the moment got fed twice in the first 5 minutes so I virtually had no chance in holding my own. I ended up like 3/11 that game I think. It's not that I wasn't trying or I was trolling, but I couldn't just to anything.
Troll for Trump4 votesIf you have 0 kills and assists
vOmvbrawfU2 votesThe majority of the league community reads at a 1st grade level. You're wasting your time here lol.
Snowman Arc1 votesI could still have ended up with 0 kills and assists, if I never received any gank to get some, or if my TP play bot wouldn't be followed up by anyone.
freeloader257 votesThe enemy Toplane is 0-8-0 and the enemy team has an afk. Why are you getting 20 LP for this?
Youre right that this kind of stuff isnt ok (in any gamemode btw) and that a lot more people should be penalized (especially afk seems to be very bad from what ive seen this season) but when you dont get penalized for having these people on your team you shouldnt be getting rewards for having them on the enemy team aswell.
rtbf761092711 voteswhy in the hell should you NOT be rewarded for killing your laner a enough times that it wins the game?
LP - gained for winning a match but not by too much don't do that it hurts peoples feelings and you get no LP if you do
Glory ln Death3 votesYour head
Sarcasm seems to be lost on you.
rtbf761092711 votesit's a lot more common for people to be retarded than sarcastic, my bad
Glory ln Death2 votesIt's hard to detect sarcasm through text a lot of times... they need to create a universal sarcasm font or something.
But, yeah - it would have been more clear if he had said "if you don't get penalized" instead of "when".
idontgiveabother4 votesI just had a game where our top lane garen decided to rush 3 cloaks of agility, get a bamis cinder, get a 4th cloak then build an IE. I believe he ended up 3/9 or something. He spammed pings at us from time to time, went on a blood thirsty hunt into their jungle at one point too. He let their top laner free farm and push. It was a mess. I've also had several afks over the past week or 2. If it werent for all this bullshit I could probably be a division higher right now.
It also seems to be increasing and increasing everyday. Maybe im just an unlucky guy who isn't deserving of anything :^) But seriously, something is wrong here and I don't feel like me or ANYONE but the offender should get punished for this (ie. losing lp ect.)
Snowman Arc3 votesJust think of how many times you stomp an enemy laner and you think you're god, but they just troll and mess around instead. You don't notice it, until it happens at your expense. Earlier today, I was top lane as Graves vs Vayne. I stomped that lane hard (85ish cs vs 30 at 10 mins, no kills though). That Vayne at some point just backed and I didn't see her top lane for like 3 minutes. Was she trolling? Didn't seem like it, because she was having a hard time top, so she left to help other lanes or whatever. Did it seem like trolling to the enemy players? Probably. Enemy players were probably thinking "oh my god wtf Vayne go back to your lane troll get out of my farm wtf ur 120 cs down".
idontgiveabother1 votesI see what you mean but I do occasionally wonder if the person is actually trying.
Snowman Arc2 votes99% of the people are actually trying. The fact that it happens to your teammte though enrages you, because you are probably gonna lose because of it, that you think he is trolling. Maybe, sometimes it's lack of skill, let's say in top lane where you might get smashed, or lack of better judgment, like engaging on a call that turns out to be wrong.
Mostro Gallo3 votesThis has always been a problem in solo queue. If you don't like it, make a ranked team or don't play ranked at all.
Stillname2 votesThis is why I never understood people putting solo queue on a pedestal while we had dynamic queue.
This is literally the type of thing people complained about to make Riot think "hmm... the players don't like playing the game with bad randoms. Maybe we should let them play ranked with their friends"
It didn't quite work out that way but people just love having something to blame that isn't themselves I guess.
Matthew100x2 votesI remember when I made a post like this a long time ago and got downvoted. Nearly every ranked game I play I roflstomp my lane opponent only for most of my team to feed the game, making it become a lost one. I think the worst games occur when I'm really fed and my teammates instead of working with me and staying by me sabotages the game by going out by themselves and commit suicide. Like y'all need to be carriable otherwise your not getting carried, at all.
In my honest opinion you shouldn't lose LP at all for being the only good one on your team and you should be penalized really harshly for doing the worst. Towers, farm per minute, KDA, killstreaks, and other factors that are already accounted for in the grading system can just as easily reflect on the LP system giving minimum LP loss per game. Hell I'd even argue up to low gold giving tiny amounts of LP for getting an S when your team throws the game because it wasn't your fault.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesYup. Too many players with 1,5´KDA on average and average 10 deaths stay in higher tiers just because the current system is so forgiving on doing bad and not really rewarding on doing good and you will get carried once in a while and somehow maintain that ~50%winrate. And i still highly believe that riots system puts you into trashteams on purpose. On my smurf i have 75% winrate currently playing in silver 1 with hig gold/plat already. Always the same, after 3-5 wins or as soon as i hit promo my teammates have an average winrate of 40% or even worse. The current meta of: jungler roflstomps every lane just adds so much frustration. Literally one gank and a kill is enough so both are a level ahead and snowball out of control. In my last few smurf games i was doing well, really well but there was just no way of getting back or carrying because everyone snowballs sooo hard and my team wasn't even feeding THAT hard. Like the highest deathcount was 6. Which is average to say in gold tier. But a small lead leads to 5 towers+firstblood and suddenly the enemy is 5k ahead and rofl stomps you. Add on the current dmg creep where everyone gets oneshotted=freelo even for mechanically trash players and this is what bothers me the most. I average around 8-9 cs/min in most of my games and having more CS is winning the lane, denying XP and cs for example but it literally doesn't matter when they are already back or ahead once they got one single gank or FB tower.
Silent Gravity2 votesIf you're roflstomping your lane opponent consistently and also losing the game consistently, you could consider focusing more on the macro game. Minion wave management, vision, vision denial, communicating your plan of action via pings or text, whatever.
It sounds like your mechanical skills are above par, and they brought you up to your current rank. Your opponents seem to be using vision in the jungle to make picks and then move to objectives. They used that set of skills to gain their current rank. For them to improve, they need to work on their mechanics, right?
As to gaining/losing more/less based on how well you did compared to your teammates, that sounds iffy. People would work to protect their relative rank within the team rather than making the plays best suited for the team to win.
Matthew100x2 votesI do, I'd like you to take a look at some of my Ryze games where I consistently have around 300 farm. I usually have between 150-180 cs by twenty minutes with an archangels fully charged. The issue comes is when I leave my lane how are the other lanes doing. In any given bronze game you can either expect me to completely stomp my lane or go even because the enemy won't trade with me. I like to farm the early game into mid so that way I have stronger roams. My teammates have different ideas of how to lane. Most of them will just repeatedly suicide into the enemy if they died once because they think they can fight him (I know this because my lane opponents usually keeps doing this and never learns his lesson). Yes I'm good, Yes I don't belong in this elo, but its very frustrating to have to deal with several fed enemies simply because my teammates decided the best way to lane is to launch themselves at the enemy till they've got four or five deaths. Other issues are trolls, afkers, 12 year old kids who rage at the simplest of stuff and others who turn a potentially winnable game into a 4v5.
Before I go I would like to direct your attention to this game: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2398709872/219387867?tab=overview
In this game I got uber fed because the enemy was simply terrible at the game. I thought it was winnable but my team proved me wrong. While I was clearing out superminions to prevent them from destroying nexus towers my team who was severely behind decided it would be best to fight 4v5s without their carry. When they all died to the enemy and 5 enemies rushed nexus, there was absolutely nothing I could do even with my 18 kills and 300 cs. I ended that game with an S+ being overall unsatisfied because of my teammates. People just don't care in bronze and sometimes in silver and it just makes climbing a harder task because each game you roll a dice and pray that you get good teammates and all the trolls go on the enemy team.
Sraeg20132 votesRiot's stance on this:
Yenn1 votesJust had someone force our mid to swap with them or they were going to troll, and I already dodged my last game. They got mid and went 5-13. Same shit with the jungle Shaco, it just fed all game.
LordGeovanni1 votes0-8-0 top you can help that dont btch help them. afk jungle you cant do anything about that
Matthew100x2 votesYou can't help and 0-8-0 top laner, trust me I tried. You can gank them, you can give them kills, but in the end, there was a reason why that person is 0-8-0. Not even one assist? Did he not join the team at all? No that person was either trolling or wasn't ready for ranked because I've had similar circumstances where a teammates was feeding and I gave em a couple kills. You want to know what happened? They were always that idiot who got caught out in a teamfight and got killed or they''re the idiot who never grouped. These people are destined to lose no matter what.
Bigg Facts1 votesYepp. Theres a limit on how bad you can be, before you're no longer worth helping.
LordGeovanni1 voteswhen i do bad i usually end up staying in my lane (top laner) and not leaveing because my jungler when they do come only takes farms for 3 mins the leaves. i mean a 0-8-0 score at the end of the game the most he could have fed in the first 10 minutes is 3 deaths in a 20 minute game. and even if you cant play a standard lane you realise that him loseing lane can fuck up your whole game right dont play the standard lane and help him even if you dont get as fed as you want. its always MY TEAM cant do shit but never i need to help MY TEAM they are struggling its always i need to get my self fed fuck my team until later i just hope they dont feed. dont hope do something about it. Ps even if you help the person dont give the the kill they are already feeding assists will help them just fine no need to reset their gold value thing smart not think K/D
Bigg Facts1 votesSounds like an average day for me
