True damage is a pretty awful mechanic.

Barkley··10 votes·1,846 views

Especially for how available it is these days.

True damage used to be a pretty niche stat. Now its everywhere. Ahri Chogath Darius Garen Irelia MasterYi to name a few.

I just don't see how damage you can't itemize against is healthy in a game that is more or less centered around itemization. Its basically taking a core mechanic of the game and saying "this doesn't matter anymore."

And I'm not really sure its the actual concept of true damage that's the problem, so much as the sheer amount of it that can be put out, how little skill it requires to put out, and how quickly it can be put out. Cho'gath in particular can INSTANTLY put out 2000+ true damage with a point-and-click skill. Damage like that should happen over time, or over a few skills, or at least something that has some kind of skill expression.

Most champions that deal true damage either deal it with a point-and-click skill, or with auto attacks. You'd think that damage that can't be blocked would be gated behind something that requires skill to execute so there's a fair trade off.

As a squishy champion, its just the worst. Most champions that deal true damage can deal it in the hundreds, and they can deal it very quickly. So as a squishy champion like a mage or an adc, you just die. Especially with how mobile champions are these days. One wrong step and you're dead. Zero forgiveness. Your base armors and your bonus armors from allies and such just don't even matter. And its not like you're building any health anyway.

Its pretty bad as a tank, too. You're supposed to be able to soak damage for your team, and yet you go down like you haven't spent thousands of gold on defensive items. It makes you wonder "why did I go through all that trouble to farm if its just not even going to matter. Why did I even buy these items?"

So yeah... it'd probably be fine if there were fewer champions that had access to true damage. It'd probably be fine if there was more of a "skill gate" on heavy-hitting true damage abilities. It'd probably be fine if champions couldn't inflict true damage with their insane attack speed auto attacks.

But as of right now, true damage is just too easy to access, too available in the champion pool, requires too little effort to execute, and appears in excessive amounts. When you end up in a game with an enemy lineup like Darius Ahri Chogath Vayne Velkoz its just like.... why would I even buy a defensive item at all? Its just gonna boil down to who kills who first.

My bet is on the entire 5 man team comp jam packed with true damage.

32 Comments

Infernape18 votes

True damage is fine. %HP true damage needs to die in the everlasting hellfire that is Bronze V ranked.

Crett2 votes

AGREE

ArfBarkBoof7 votes

{quoted}

True damage is fine. %HP true damage needs to die in the everlasting hellfire that is Bronze V ranked.

Completely agree with you. True damage like from Ahri MasterYi Darius RekSai Garen Chogath is flat damage based on certain mechanics like Fury, the amount of health missing, or the number of passive stacks. HP % true damage Fiora Vayne can be frustrating to play against because it tends to be overwhelming in lane and in later game scenarios when in the case of Vayne she's not only proccing True Damage nukes for 12% of your max health, but is also critting you.

DarkSoul199417 votes

"True Damage used to be a pretty niche stat. Now it's everywhere..."

Proceeds to list 6 champions that have had True Damage in their kits for over 6 years.

Barkley1 votes

just happened to be the ones I clicked on, man. You'll notice they're in semi-somewhat alphabetical order.

DarkSoul19946 votes

The fact of the matter is that there really aren't that many champions with True Damage - and most of them have fairly negligible amounts of it or have to work to get it off (Darius Passive Stacks, Rek'sai Fury, Ahri's True Damage is on the return portion of a Skillshot). Then you have champions such as Fiora and Vayne who have very clear trade-offs for having meaningful True Damage (Fiora is a Pure Melee Champion while Vayne becomes far less effective if she isn't allowed to focus a single target).

I've been on the forums since Season 2 and I'm finally fucking sick of these sorts of threads. I might have to change my Bookmark Link from the Front Page of the Forums to 'Story, Art & Sound' because that's the only place you can enter a reasonable discussion nowadays.

TehNACHO8 votes

Sums up most powercreep threads in general honestly.

Bob the Toastr1 votes

Velkoz: Can't have had true damage in his kit for 6 years if you haven't existed for 6 years [slayer-jinx-wink]

Masala Chai11 votes

True Damage can be itemized against, it's called building health.

Now Max Health True Damage you can't itemize against.

Bârd2 votes

You can, just not very well.

Shields, heals, and lifesteal increase your effective HP against true damage without increasing your max HP.

You're better off itemizing against the rest of their kit, since true damage is pretty much always outweighed by their physical or magical damage output.

LankPants9 votes

You can itemise against true damage, you build HP. The only three champs who have truly problematic true damage are Cho'gath, Vayne and Fiora. Cho because it's just too damn high without him building any offence and Vayne/Fiora because you actually can't itemise against them.

L Psy Kongroo8 votes

Garen's ult is only true damage against the villain, so I think it's fine.

Also, you mention being unable to itemize against true damage, yet you fail to mention the only sources of true damage that you literally CANNOT itemize against: Fiora Vayne .

Regular flat true damage can be itemized against by building HP.

III DNA III1 votes

[deleted]

L Psy Kongroo4 votes

[{quoted}](name=III DNA III,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NkmToabj,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-01-07T03:45:31.530+0000)

You forgot the massive %HP True damage of AP Varus (harder to play but still OP)

Varus's W does magic damage.

Who Fed Ru6 votes

all of the champs you listed are pretty old and had their true damage for years, apart from Garen.

and true damage is there to be played against, not build against. basically every true damage needs some requirements to get it off.

Barkley2 votes

Just because something has been in the game for a long time doesn't make it any less unhealthy.

How long was "dodge" a thing?

xelaker5 votes

true damage isn't remotely as bad as dodge...

Barkley1 votes

Oh I think its worse, in some ways.

Kinkou Order3 votes

Crit is a bigger issue than true damage.

Someone gets 20% and gets 2 or 3 crits in a row and snowballs of it.

True damage you at least know what to expect.

You know Irelia will do 15 to 75 true damage on autos when the ability is active.

You know you don't want to get hit by vayne 3 times in a row.

You don't know if that Jinx is going to crit you 4 out of 5 times or 1 out if 5 times.

LordGeovanni1 votes

only % max hp true damage and % max hp damage ingeneral need to not break the 10% threshold except for ults which needs to not break the 18% threshold

Mordepool2 votes

{quoted}

Just because something has been in the game for a long time doesn't make it any less unhealthy.

How long was "dodge" a thing?

I think it got axed in S3? If I recall correctly

yonggon1 votes

you dodge under fountain getting pentakill

Axzarious4 votes

In a perfect world, you'd itemize HP when going against True Damage. However, % true damage is pretty cancer and pretty much impossible to truly itemize against outside of passive abilities granted by items. For Vayne you want Randuins Omen and Tabi, and even Frozen Heart helps cut the pain effectively when she's under it's aura. On the other hand, I think Fiora is more than a little out of line in that regard, since she can not only deal obscene amounts of max HP damage, but also gains a heal and movement speed on top of it all.

bwop2 votes

I agree, true damage can be a really anti-fun aspect to play against, especially when you're playing from the behind, then it feels like the game is just unplayable because I'm getting melted as soon as I leave my base. But they're are things that counter True Damage, and that would be health and loads after loads of shields.

Vapor Wave Vibes2 votes

True damage isn't on that many champs and darius, vel'koz, cho'gath and vayne have to do work for it. For ahri it's not a huge component on her kit and I think it should just be replaced with magic damage.

DJ 019752 votes

Fiora As fun as she is to play is definitely the biggest issue when it comes to this. I play her in the jungle a lot recently, Bloodrazor into Trinity Force, and at level 11 my ultimate does 40% max health as true damage (10% per vital) on top of the % damage from Bloodrazor and the constant Sheen procs from my Q. If I'm half awake, it's very hard to CC me to whittle me down and with Fleet Footwork and Legend: Bloodlines, I don't need to rush a Ravenous Hydra like most people do.

I even get spicy and build an Essence Reaver third if I'm super ahead since her E guarantees a crit and Trinity gives enough mana that the % mana return you get basically means you're never oom.

Bârd2 votes

"Now it's everywhere"

No, no it isn't.

There are 23 champions with innate true damage.

Of those...

Nunu can only eat creeps. Ivern can only "free" monsters. Twitch does so little that I don't count it. Zoe does true damage based on the post mitigation damage they took, so it isn't even really tue damage.

So, more like 19 champions with innate true damage, around 13% of the roster.

Now, if you think it used to be so much better, lets see how much has been added since, say, 2014 (when Vel'koz was released).

4.3 Velkoz with "Organic Deconstruction" 4.21 RekSai with "Furious Bite" 5.14 Gangplank reworked, gains "Trial by Fire" and "Death's Daughter". 5.15 Fiora reworked, gains "Duelist's Dance". 5.16Garen reworked, gains "the Villain". 6.11 Velkoz gains "research". 6.20 Ivern with "Friend of the Forest" (if you really want to count that). 6.24 Camille with "Precision Protocol" 7.7 Amumu reworked "Cursed Touch" 7.15 Urgot reworked, gains "Mercy" 7.23 Zoe with "Sleepy Trouble Bubble" (if you really want to count that).

In the last four years, true damage has been added to champion kits 10 times. Two of those were on the same champion, and two aren't even proper true damage.

For context, 22 champions have been released since 2014 and 35 gameplay updates have taken place (and that's with all the roster updates being lumped together).

Adding true damage to the game has really been pretty slow.

Whisper871 votes

I think it's like you said. Riot puts in true damage champs because they want only HP stacking tanks to be able to deal with them.

Kivolan1 votes

Most of the champs you've listed only have one form of true damage, usually tied to an ult.

Even Vel'koz, the king of true damage, only ends up doing about 25% of his total damage in true damage each game.

Ahris1 votes

Hp is counter to true damage. People dont usually build against an Ahri since she doesnt do any damage in general even with true damage. Building tank armor item with hp is enough to ignore Ahri's damage which is sad as an ap carry.

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

" no way to itemize against" I'm pretty sure you can buy this stat called health, which increases your total health pool thus giving you more durability against true damage.

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