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Less expensive iceborn gauntlet with less mana?

LilxPaprika·Mar 15, 2015·1 votes·476 views

perhaps give a way to adjust how much mana we want to pay for. from 300/400/500mana rigtheous glory for example cost 2500 gold maybe gauntlet could cost 2700/2800/2900 based on how much mana you ask for. this can be retroacted/adjusted at anytime you base giving you back your money. so you could start with a 2900 gold gauntlet but when you build righteous glory you can get some gold back from the mana you won't be needing. I'm looking to play udyr with this build:

But i feel like i'm spending too much on mana. granted he does need it. but the game has changed so much now its all about recalling and homeguarding out etc. rarely do people stay for extended time such that i never end up needing that much mana

people who want to build it with Muramana will most likely want the extra mana. or those who rely exclusively on it for mana. but a lot of people who mainly use it for the sheen proc/slow don't. This would be an awesome item on shen from example but paying that much for mana is ridiculous. same can be said of shyvana.

8 Comments

Hard4HamstersMar 15, 20152 votes

Honestly I do think that Iceborn could be more cost efficient. The reason it's never used is that Triforce is just a better buy in most situations. The only champs I get Iceborn on are Taric and Tank-gas for the peel they provide for a carry(I don't play Skarner, but I imagine its alright on him, but I still might get Triforce on him). IBG doesn't add much more damage; 125% base AD = about 130-150 extra damage on the proc (at lvl 18) as compared to 220 + on Triforce. So you get it for the slowing effect as the other stats it provides can be taken care of with other items (Randuins and Frozen Heart). The Rage effect on Triforce gives you bonus MS on hit so you don't lose much sticking power, so I see IBG as more of a peel focused item. With the recent reductions to Randuins and FH prices, I think IBG just costs too much as a defensive item, so people don't buy it as Triforce is a much better offensive choice.

LilxPaprikaMar 15, 20151 votes

agreed, this could help it in that respect as well. if the extra mana on it doesn't do it for you, triforce is just a better buy.

here are some UI scroll selectors i looked up/edited to give you an idea of what i think it could look like in the shop. http://i.imgur.com/rbAz1A6.jpg as you slide/scroll it, it locks into place when it comes near the integer you like. then you press buy to confirm entry type of thing.

Hard4HamstersMar 15, 20151 votes

I don't think that would be a good idea to have a customized item that gives you the stats that you want. You do pay for extra stuff you don't need sometimes. Like on Gragas, I buy RoA and a IBG when building tanky, I don't really need the extra mana, but the CDR, AP, Armor, and Sheen proc are all worth the extra I spend on mana. I would just say they could buff the item by redistributing some stats or lowering the price.

LilxPaprikaMar 15, 20151 votes

ya but roa is pretty gold efficient given time of course which i guess could be detrimental in some ways. maybe if ibg could scale better into late game like roa does. otherwise i don't see much other ways to give more free stats without affecting price. It'll give characters who actually get the most out of the mana an extra boost / advantage. I think if they want a quick fix they could redistribute 100 mana. but beyond that you start to negatively effect champions who buy it for the larger manapool/their sole mana item like say a skarner or poppy who eat through mana so fast.

But i was also kind of hoping that manaless characters could choose to build ibg as well if they so choose to like they do for trinity force. this would be the solution for it. its a little bit bold of a concept. i know the game shouldnt turn into some sort of sandbox where you play around with stats. So long as they keep it for the rare conflicts like this one it helps provide that little bit of wiggle room or give that gives every champion a more equal footing.

just because its doable on gragas doesn't make it okay. that isn't a good design approach to stand by. Also fyi this would help him in that regards anyways. why be just okay with something. where would adc players be if they were 'just okay' with their itemization.

Hard4HamstersMar 15, 20151 votes

Yeah I understand that it would help Gragas too and it would help most champions who use this item but don't need the extra mana. The build items for IBG is the real problem though as far as mana Sheen + Glacial Shroud give 450 mana, so having an item that builds out of both of them should have at least 450 mana. If it had a different build path, it would be possible, but as is, they can't move any mana from the item. They could give it a free buff by giving it 20 armor or AP and rounding the price up to 3000 gold, but that wouldn't help your less mana hungry champions. If you want a similar effect to IBG, get Triforce or Frozen Mallet on Shen or Shyvana depending on what you were using IBG for.

What would you have as an alternate build path for IBG? Just wondering.. And what would the stats and price be?

LilxPaprikaMar 15, 20151 votes

Sheen + Glacial Shroud give 450 mana

Good point I totally forgot about that.
I'd get mallet if it wasn't so darn pricey. And sheen gives bruisers their reason for being now that there's no more atmas. Its just nice to get the two in one. They could have it build out of chain vest instead of glacial shroud I guess. Zeke's herald can jump 10% CDR on the final purchase no reason this couldn't.

Hard4HamstersMar 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They could have it build out of chain vest instead of glacial shroud I guess. Zeke's herald can jump 10% CDR on the final purchase no reason this couldn't.

A better example would be Essence Reaver, which gets CDR for no reason. I would be afraid that the change in build would make Glacial Shroud less of an item as it only builds into IBG and Frozen Heart. I like Iceborn Gauntlet as an item for specific champions right now, but I do think it could be a better general use item if it had a small buff. Overall though, the risk of having a mana-less champion is that Mana items are not optimal on them. Shen, Shyvana, Gnar, and Rengar can all build Trinity Force because they can afford to throw away the 400 gold of Mana because the stats and passives are so good and cost efficient, but you won't see them buying Frozen Heart or RoA because so much of the cost is in the Mana the items provide. The same is true with Iceborn Gauntlet, it has 1000 gold worth of mana in the item, and that is not worth throwing away for the rest of the stats it provides. Also, Atma's was a stupid item with a stupid build order, :P. I could see it come back if it gave HP regen instead of Crit Chance and had another build order. I liked the idea of Atma's, but you would end up with only 60 AD at 4000 HP. Which means your other items would all have to be HP items to get the most out of it and you would still end up with a small boost in AD with no penetration in the lategame, not to mention how horrible your early game is as a fighter if you don't have a damage item. Basically, Atma's was rarely if ever built because it was such a bad item.

LilxPaprikaMar 15, 20151 votes

Ya I'm kind of fond of glacial shroud too. I do find that to get the better part of the armor on ibg you have to complete it. Building ibg is actually a pretty squishy item until you can complete it which is kind of counter to the role its suppose to serve as. In that respect I think chain vest would make more sense. Also if u need the extra mana there are always mana pots to hold you over. For the longest time glacial shroud was only seen on frozen heart. There's always the possibility of having either as an option by adding a swipe feature of sort. In which case you wouldn't pick among 300/400/500 mana at the end, instead you'd either choose between a 250 mana vs a 500 mana item.

I sort of like the flexibility that the first suggestion offers however. But I think commiting to a fixed amount early on is more fair/less op than being able to expand your mana pool later into the game.

Here's an example I made of a swipe feature: I wanted to have hextech revolver build into an item like cutlass's in place of building cutlass to complete gunblade. So you'd choose which option before you buy. buy one but not the other. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Mpwzcf57-swipe-feature-to-build-cutlass-out-of-hextech-revolver-poll

So in the case of ibg u could build it out of either chain vest or glacial.

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