Am I the only one who finds Maw of Malmortius to be too powerful?

YumaS2Astral··48 votes·6,963 views

While old item 3156 wasn't nearly as good as new item 3156 and probably needed changes, I find the new Maw to be overloaded.

Before, you would rush Hexdrinker only as a defensive countermeasure against APs that unlike other MR options, would still give you damage, You would not upgrade it into Maw until later in the game. Sometimes people would even sell Hexdrinker for other magic resistance items.

However, the new Maw of Malmortius is not just an item that can defend against APs while still providing offensive presence. The new Maw is a complete hard counter to APs. For example, because it has armor penetration, AD assassins and bruisers should no longer worry about losing armor penetration against squishy opponents. They can just rush this as this item already provides everything they want. While new Maw gives less AD than its old self, the armor penetration more than compensates for that, as it also works with a champion's base damage.

But this is not the only reason why this item is such a hard counter to AP champions. The other reason is that the passive of Maw gives any AD champion complete 1x1 potential against any AP champion, making it impossible for almost every mage and AP assassin to do anything against AD bruisers, ADCs, and assassins, because on top of the magic resistance and the magic damage shield, a Maw of Malmortius user also gains sustain and attack speed while the AD champion itself does not sacrifice anything for that. Before, AD assassins would sacrifice armor penetration for this item, but this is no longer a problem for them, making this item even more powerful.

I am the only one who finds that to be problematic?

For example, on my last battle, I was using Malzahar. The enemy team was full AD, with Corki being their mid laner, and they also had Shaco jungle, Gnar top, and Lucian as their main ADC. All of them except Corki built a Maw of Malmortius (but Corki built a QSS so I still had difficulty in killing him too). At this point, I couldn't 1x1 any of them. Even though none of them built a item 3140 (which is supposed to be the actual item that can counter Malzahar) they could 1x1 me as Malzahar because of Maw of Malmortius alone. Due to this reason, even though I got fed early, I couldn't do much later in the game because of this item, and I had to purchase an early Void Staff to be able to do some damage against them. I still won, though, as my team's Vayne got to the late game, and you know that you should not be allowing a Vayne to reach late game else she is unstoppable.

63 Comments

Yenn19 votes

Maw is absolutely overloaded. You can be 3-0 against an AD mid as an AP carry, they rush a Maw, and suddenly your 1v1 potential is totally gone.

Keti3 votes

If you're up 3-0, by the time they finish a maw you should have hourglass + half your next item. You'll still crush them.

Abyssphere3 votes

{quoted}

If you're up 3-0, by the time they finish a maw you should have hourglass + half your next item. You'll still crush them.

Hourglass doesn't do much in 1v1 scenarios unless you're against Zed, though. If you're a mage 1v1ing Yasuo and you pop your Zhonya's then Yasuo just stands there waiting for you to come out of stasis while he takes no damage. If you're 1v1ing Yasuo and you manage to pop his Maw then he keeps attacking you through with the shield and sustain keeping him alive, using the attack speed to increase his DPS on you.

Hourglass is a team fight active. Maw is infinitely better in 1v1s. It's possible that you'll have so much damage with your Hourglass/half a Morello that you will kill someone through their Maw but the Hourglass active is irrelevant in that scenario.

Keti1 votes

Typically I don't need the stasis because when I have a huge lead on ad mids I just play from range and half health them with one skill. If you don't want the stasis, armguard + a full damage item would be great as well. Maybe part of the problem is not respecting the innate ability of assassins to win duels. Not sure what it is but this board sure has a hate boner for every ad mid except the actual broken one (talon).

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Typically I don't need the stasis because when I have a huge lead on ad mids I just play from range and half health them with one skill. If you don't want the stasis, armguard + a full damage item would be great as well. Maybe part of the problem is not respecting the innate ability of assassins to win duels. Not sure what it is but this board sure has a hate boner for every ad mid except the actual broken one (talon).

Honestly I think you are generally better off getting Armguard and then finishing Morello's or whatever. I think where the problem comes in is when the AD character who's 0/3 randomly all-ins you before you've even had the chance to throw some poke out - that's going to be overwhelming for players becuase they're not expecting someone who's comfortably losing lane to go on the aggressive so fully and I feel like it's very easy to underestimate just how much dueling power Maw gives, commit to the 1v1 (hey, you're wrecking them, how could you lose?) and then lose it once the Hex shield comes in despite how well you'd been doing previously. Obviously your character isn't naturally adept at 1v1ing melee assassins in most cases, but it's not natural for people in League that aren't supports to be scared of characters that they're comfortably outperforming and I think season 6 Maw is screwing over everyone who's relying on the fact that they could have killed the 0/3 Talon in season 5.

Aaravos6 votes

This maw is like a zhonya what gives:

+10 magic pen +50 armor +100 ap the stasis and a new passive: After the end of the stasis it gives +20% cdr and +20% spell wamp until out of combat (the cdr can break the cap for an additional 10%)

This zhonya would be broken but around equal with maw. And yes this is the power level of maw, overpowered. Oh and qss is also here, but looks like riot doesn't rly care. At least plat 5 adc mains stopped complaining about they get one shotted as Draven if they flash into the midle of the teamfight.

Saianna1 votes

spell vamp as a stat is pretty useless unless you are Vlad/Akali/Swain(?)

Second thing, if you are forced to use Zhyona, then you most likely burned your spells. This 20% CDR is just as useless. Why? Because Mages are trying their best NOT to be in middle of 5v5 shitstorm.

And on top of that CDs of mages are slightly longer to actually use any 20% free CDR for 3s~

Aaravos1 votes
  1. Spell wamp isn't useless if you get it freely

  2. The cdr wouldn't be useless, you don't always burn your spells before zhonya.

  3. The cdr is until out of combat just like maw's stupid passive and not for 3 sec.

  4. It wasn't a suggestion. I just try to demonstrate the strenght of maw using zhonya.

Saianna1 votes

It wasn't a suggestion. I just try to demonstrate the strenght of maw using zhonya.

If so, then sorry.. Lately I'm so poor that I can't even pay attention

Captain Aishi5 votes

maw could certainly do with losing it's flat armor pen, at the very least

YumaS2Astral2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Aishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgvjpxUE,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2016-03-09T03:14:13.746+0000)

maw could certainly do with losing it's flat armor pen, at the very least

That is exactly what I am thinking.

Before, ADs would have to choose between having armor penetration (from sources like The Brutalizer, for example), or having the magic damage protection from Hexdrinker.

Now that Maw of Malmortius offer both, they do not lose anything by building it. Even if Maw is not a dedicated flat armor penetration item, it is still powerful enough that it can be rushed and ADs still have the stats needed to function by mid game.

This item already offers a lot of stats: AD, magic resistance, a shield, and thanks to the passive, it also has attack speed, lifesteal, spellvamp... Why it also needs armor penetration? This just makes this item completely overloaded.

Swae74 votes

yes.. yes u are.

BTW Thats WHy u guys got zhonyas..

Stop complaining u hav ur own shit too.

YumaS2Astral10 votes

{quoted}

yes.. yes u are.

BTW Thats WHy u guys got zhonyas..

Stop complaining u hav ur own shit too.

Does Zhonya give me a shield that protects me against physical damage and scales with armor?

Does Zhonya give me a small amount of mana regeneration to compensate the fact that I am not purchasing a dedicated mana regeneration item?

Does Zhonya give me spellvamp and cooldown reduction after my health drops to a certain amount?

Is Zhonya a cheap, easy to rush item?

Yes, Zhonya has a powerful active, but that does not protect a lot against ADs... At best it protects against Talon and Zed's ults, but it isn't of help otherwise, as any AD assassin can just wait for the active to end and then kill me regardless.

TheDevice3 votes

{quoted}

Does Zhonya give me a shield that protects me against physical damage and scales with armor?

Does Zhonya give me a small amount of mana regeneration to compensate the fact that I am not purchasing a dedicated mana regeneration item?

Does Zhonya give me spellvamp and cooldown reduction after my health drops to a certain amount?

Is Zhonya a cheap, easy to rush item?

Yes, Zhonya has a powerful active, but that does not protect a lot against ADs... At best it protects against Talon and Zed's ults, but it isn't of help otherwise, as any AD assassin can just wait for the active to end and then kill me regardless.

item 3165 item 3151 can mess up a maw pretty bad. Even if you Zhonyas as Malz your dots should finish them off while you're untargetable.

Anyways, the immobile mage update will probably release some new items for mages so ..yeah

WadeWilson13378 votes

Morellos doesnt affect the shield, so that argument is entirely irrelevant. If you rush morellos, you also wont have any armor..completely negating the entire point of his argument. Liandries is okay i suppose, but its not a great item on every single ap in the game, whereas maw can be built on literally any AD carry or bruiser. Your dots dont do THAT much damage lol, without your ult you wont 100-0ing like a Zed would.

item 3156 gives you an insanely free lane. If you are playing an AD champ against an AP, and somehow manage to lose in a straight up 1v1 against them, chances are you messed up, really, really hard.

Well the thing is APs have been in a bad spot since November and its March so..yeah.

TheDevice3 votes

{quoted}

Morellos doesnt affect the shield, so that argument is entirely irrelevant. If you rush morellos, you also wont have any armor..completely negating the entire point of his argument. Liandries is okay i suppose, but its not a great item on every single ap in the game, whereas maw can be built on literally any AD carry or bruiser. Your dots dont do THAT much damage lol, without your ult you wont 100-0ing like a Zed would.

item 3156 gives you an insanely free lane. If you are playing an AD champ against an AP, and somehow manage to lose in a straight up 1v1 against them, chances are you messed up, really, really hard.

Well the thing is APs have been in a bad spot since November and its March so..yeah.

I never said item 3165 affected the shield. What it does affect is its spellvamp and lifesteal.

Most ad mid picks counter ap champions and is why they are picked. This has been true since forever. Like wow I didnt know Talon wasn't supposed to completely annihilate a Brand if he stepped out too far.

So i see what you want. You want AP champions like Brand and Velkoz etc to no only be extremely good at keeping their distance from fights and doing massive AOE and CC but ALSO want them to be the better duelists in lane... Gotcha.

Why stop there? Why not also allow them to be just as tanky as tanks and be just as mobile as assassins. This just isnt fair that mages cannot do exactly everything every other role can do but better.

WadeWilson13373 votes

Youre actually quite wrong. All of these ad mids that are popular are all melee, granted they have a fair amount of poke. Pre6, they are supposed to get absolutely pooped on by most of them with harras from their ranged counterparts. If you pick a melee into a mid, youre basically supposed to have a hard time doing anything against them, looking for all ins once you get your ultimate, or you roam. You dont pick ad mids to win lane, atleast thats not what the concept is atleast. The actual result however is complicated by that item.

SoMNia1 votes

{quoted}

granted they have a fair amount of poke.

Exactly. They can hold their own pre-6, and once they do get their ult, they all-in and destroy mages. That's the whole reason they're played, and it has nothing to do with Maw (not to say that Maw doesn't significantly contribute, just that this was already the case). Diana is played mid for the same reason, and while she could build Maw, it's really not the best idea.

Steelflame4 votes

Actually, Diana has been "building maw" for seasons. Abyssal is, on her, almost the exact same as Maw is for an AD champion, when it comes to efficiently countering AP midlaners. It grants her a large chunk of MR, AP, and grants Mpen. AP scales into her shield, granting her even more effective health, while the Mpen makes her decent base damages high enough to get burst kills out.

WadeWilson13371 votes

You have to remember Diana is designed to be an ap bruiser as her W scales massively with ap. Shes surprisingly tanky, so shes not a fair example when comparing how ridiculous ADs get with maw as shes an outlier compared to something like Ahri who isnt tanky at all.

WadeWilson13371 votes

Except Zhonyas costs 300g more, doesnt give magic penetration, and you cant do any damage while youre untargetable whereas hexdrinker allows you to do so, and maw even gives you a nice little passive with lifesteal thrown in because why the f not. Zhonyas is not very versatile at all and while it scales well, its an absolute garbage item to rush.

Also, ads have item 3139 , another AD/Mr item, atleast giving you a choice.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Maw is a passive. Zhonya's is an active.

Slamurai Jack4 votes

Oh no, Maw is finally viable after being one of the worst items in the game for years! Quick, nerf the fuck out of it!

Saianna7 votes

finally..... viable?

Do you even... It's so "viable" that I even consider to buy this on my MAGES..

morris11 votes

Vladimir and Fiddlesticks could probably abuse it. EDIT: Akali too, how could I forget shrugs

Malicious Metal1 votes

Funny thing. I actually toyed with the Idea of including it in my Mordekaiser build.

YumaS2Astral10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgvjpxUE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-08T08:16:18.809+0000)

Oh no, Maw is finally viable after being one of the worst items in the game for years! Quick, nerf the fuck out of it!

Being one of the worst items in the game for years is not an excuse for this item be overpowered now.

item 3124 has been literally the most underused and one of the worst items in the game for ages, and is now one of the most ridiculous items.

thumbnail94 votes

The life steal makes it over the top, they never needed to add it.

It's the same with Scimitar.

Aazzlano4 votes

Maw is 170% gold efficient vs AP (and Hexdrinker is 160%) and that is a huge problem when the counterpart to it (Zhonya's) is 87% efficient before the active.

One hundred and seventy percent. That's more gold efficient than a fully stacked RoA (and even then the mana on it is not a direct combat stat whereas all of the stats on the Maw are)

It's sad really.

Hayaishi23 votes

As powerful as it needs to be to survive magic damage and be an offensive item.

No more building MR by min 20 and still not being able to fight back the mid laner with a single AP item.

Blue Moon Wolf3 votes

What I'm hoping is that when the Mage update comes, it will rebalance old AP items and release new ones that will be on par with the new/ reworked AD items and balance everything out... That's the hope anyway >.>

Envy Sin3 votes

No it's the same pattern riot always follows.

ADC's start bitching Mages are to strong, Buff ADC's so they don't insta die to them. Adc's stop bitching. (or mages get nerfed)

Mages start bitching Because now assassins and adc's are insta killing them without any effort due to item changes/buffs ad champs got.

Riot buffs mages, Mages now can beat ADC's (the way it's supposed to be) And assassins can't just steamroll them from level 1 (Hey again the way it's supposed to be)

Assassin mains bitch because they can't one shot the Adc's and Mages that both got buffed. Riot buffs assassins.

Then riot buffs ADC's

Then riot buffs mages.

Then everyone is doing STUPID amounts of damage, Tanks get buffed start raping the game, Riot buffs tanks and tank items, Supports start using said items, Riot nerfs supports. making them even more shitty then they already are.

See the pattern? they can't just find the happy medium.

TacB VIPEREYE1 votes

Ive always toyed with the thought "What if they nerfed dmg for everyone but left everyones HP scaling alone?" maybe counter play and fighting would be come more involved and last longer then 5 seconds

TacB VIPEREYE1 votes

mechanics would play a much bigger role.

Opistach2 votes

Maw isn't overloaded, it just seems that way because AP items don't compare to it. Just buff the AP items and lower the costs too purchase them IMO.

SwiftKitten882 votes

As an AP mage/assasin mage.. i disagree

i don't feel its OP at the moment, i think its balanced..

HOWEVER, it should NOT have been buffed without fixing the AP vs AD itemization the issue isnt that item 3156 is too storng... it isnt the issue is that AP have NOTHING to use in response to it

we need somethign that has AP and armor and mana regen

something that builds from likeitem 3191 anditem 3114 into an item likeitem 3155 that gives armor and mana regen

and then that item needs to build into something else with a somr sort of passive or active, maybe addingitem 3145 for some Spell vamp

and we ALSO need something to build out ofitem 3140 its a fantastic, item but once you get to late game it stupid to have one of your six slot filled with an item with worth only 1300 and that has minimal stats

Catastrop1 votes

It's become what Zhonya's is to Ad champions to Mages except they have don't have control on when the proc happens.

Envy Sin1 votes

Lawl, Change the Zhonya's active. So sick of this being a excuse.

Make it do the same shit maw does but for AD, Give me a AD Shield, Give me all that shit. Why? Because you can MOVE with the shield. There are only a few cases using the active is even worth it, Because as soon as it ends they just kill you instantly

Catastrop2 votes

Honestly, a lot of people have asked for it to be changed because of how it gimps mages in defensive itemization. Unfortunately Riot doesn't seem too keen on removing or changing it anytime soon. Then again, they could use the mage update as an opportunity to clean up AP items.

Choaru1 votes

To be fair I was playing Jhin last night and bought a Maw and the enemy Kat basically 100-20 me .-. She basically did my health + Maw shield so shrugs Thank god for life steal and Janna or I would have died.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

If a Kat is doing that to you, then your team probably let her snowball. Not many people play Kat now a days, her glory was last season. Also it doesn't help that Jhin is naturally squishy anyway, being an ADC n all.

There can be multiple factors in this situation of a Kat doing that, but then again, I don't know all the details. Just sayin'.

QjTHqo3RTq1 votes

{quoted}

being an ADC n all.

Graves Graves Graves Graves

Choaru1 votes

Never in a million years will I play Graves lol

Choaru1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2118308577/216666675?tab=overview Dunno if this will help at all...but I'm just saying that Maw is useful sometimes, but other time the Shiled is completely useless when the Mage just pops the shield in less than a sec :3c

SoMNia1 votes

So...the fact that it's now considered worthwhile to actually finish the item is a bad thing? Treat it like a Veil. Pop it, back off, and come back when your cooldowns finish.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

So...the fact that it's now considered worthwhile to actually finish the item is a bad thing? Treat it like a Veil. Pop it, back off, and come back when your cooldowns finish.

Being worthwile to finish the item is not an excuse for the item being overpowered.

And there is a big difference between Banshee's Veil and Maw. BV does not give you any damage, and only blocks your initial spell. It can be a problem early during the teamfight if it is still intact. Once you pop the shield, however, it is irrelevant (save for the stats themselves).

Also, both shields are different. BV provides a spellshield, while Maw provides a damage shield that, while not blocking the effects of your spells, it negates the damage of ALL them instead of only one. And if that wasn't enough, it also provides attack speed, lifesteal, and spellvamp when activated.

BV does not compare to this. It is still a good item to buy when you need even more magic resistance, generally in cases where you need to block a dangerous spell like Leona's ult, or when the enemy is mostly magic damage (Corki ADC with 4 APs for example) - However, such situation is unlikely to happen. Generally, Maw provides enough magic damage protection to make you unkillable and unduelable by AP champions.

SoMNia1 votes

BV, on the other hand, provides actual permanent health and makes its owner much harder to kill in a way that is not on a timer and can't be ignored by physical damage. I'm not saying they're identical.

{quoted}

Maw provides a damage shield that, while not blocking the effects of your spells, it negates the damage of ALL them instead of only one. And if that wasn't enough, it also provides attack speed, lifesteal, and spellvamp when activated.

That is why you need to back off when you see it activate, at least until the shield goes down. It's not overpowered. It just creates a moment of power that you can't afford to ignore.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

{quoted}

That is why you need to back off when you see it activate, at least until the shield goes down. It's not overpowered. It just creates a moment of power that you can't afford to ignore.

In other words: It creates an artificial window of power that no AD champions were balanced around.

QjTHqo3RTq1 votes

Change Rageblade passive, Rageblade op, give old rageblade passive to maw, maw op.

I struggle to understand how that works, but I feel you, maw is very powerful.

Fraggleroc1 votes

Maw of Malmortius has an excellent build path towards it. Both items building towards it are too good. That is the only slight imbalance I feel.

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