counterplay and outplay are endangered

MOuHahaHAhahaaaa·Nov 14, 2018·36 votes·14,629 views

I mean there is so much damage that every single time a champion begins to snowball there is no way to counter him.

for example :

A talon in 5/0 one shots easily a 2/0 fighter or any supp or adc. And while he is using his ult you can't see him the only time you can see him again it's when you are dead. I mean how do you want us to recover from our allies mistakes if you don't allow us to counterplay ?

talon is another example from many. For example leblanc. When you are hit by the chains you can only wait for your death. And if she makes mistakes she can always tp safe away.

There are too many champions with invisibility, mobility combined with huge damage. You want them to have huge mobility or invisibility then nerf their damage.

A champion should not able to be good at mostly everything. Stealth and Mobility are strong mechanics and they never should be combined with insane damage because counterplay is not present enough in those cases.

New champions and new reworked ones have too much tools and strengths compared to old ones.

59 Comments

charge attackNov 14, 201819 votes

Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon.

Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage.

Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E.

Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar.

Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game.

But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything?

MOuHahaHAhahaaaaNov 14, 201812 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-14T11:43:14.662+0000)

Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon.

Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage.

Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E.

Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar.

Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game.

But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything?

I never asked for this i asked for a season 5.2

charge attackNov 14, 201811 votes

{quoted}

I never asked for this i asked for a season 5.2

Well maybe you personally didn’t - but I’m talking about the boards in general.

Also idk if 5.2 was the cinderhulk meta - but that was also super bad. Guess what - tanks weren’t good just cause they were tanky - they also did the most damage in the game.

At least with a squishy KhaZix if he’s fed, you can shut him down with CC. If 5.2 Volibear/Mundo got fed? Nothing - and I mean NOTHING you could do. CC? They’ll eat that shit - they love it. They want you to cc them. Kill them? Lmao. Towers also don’t effect them at all. Ignore them? Nope - they have enough damage to kill you fairly quickly thanks to cinderhulk/sun fire and their HP scalings.

The worst part is they don’t have to play with any brain at all. Even if they get “caught” - you probably can’t kill them until they walk all the way back to their base.

I’m not saying this is the best meta (this season might be the worst) - but people have serious ass nostalgia goggles when looking at past years.

Also everyone’s personal preference is different.

You think fighter players had fun in S5 when Mundo could literally AFK and burn you to death before you could kill him?

Or assassins had fun in S6 when mages (such as Syndra and Orianna) provided infinitely more utility, teamfight presence, and STILL outburst them?

Or how about now. ADC players when they perfectly kite a Jax - flash the counter strike - only for him to literally just walk away and if you try and chase he can probably turn around and kill you quick as fuck - but the 27 autos you dumped on him mean jack shit.

DoktorKaiserNov 14, 20186 votes

Yeah but to deal as much damage as they deal now they would have to be 10 0. Now they just need to buy the actual items, few days ago I was 1 shot by a 0 8 0 LeBlanc while playing a full tank , that is just wrong and shows just how fucked this game is now.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 14, 20185 votes

1 shot by a 0 8 0 LeBlanc while playing a full tank

LB does not physically have the stats to do so. Unless your version of "full tank" involves literally nothing but armor, that is.

Show the replay if you want us to actually believe this, because it's way too outrageous of a claim.

VonToothskieNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

LB does not physically have the stats to do so. Unless your version of "full tank" involves literally nothing but armor, that is.

Show the replay if you want us to actually believe this, because it's way too outrageous of a claim.

i took 1500 damage from a leblanc in aram earlier this week when i was playing a fed tank build Mundo, and later Garen. its real. I wouldnt say 1 single shot, but mid game 3 shots

DuskDaUmbreonNov 16, 20181 votes

1500 damage over 3 combos in mid-game from an assassin? That's pretty low. And isn't even enough to kill Mundo, there.

ShablagooNov 15, 20181 votes

What did you build that doesnt even makes sense? And what do you define as oneshot, she got one full combo and killed you. Im really smelling bullshit here man.

DoktorKaiserNov 15, 20181 votes

Q-R-W-E-ignite I had 3200 HP but just a specter's cowl . Still bullshit, a 0 8 0 early game champion that hasn't farmed very well neither should never be able to 1 shot even a squishy ADC, let alone a 3200 HP fed tank.

ShablagooNov 15, 20181 votes

What items did they have and what level where you, also which champion where you playing too. Im still not believing this, how much cs did they have, and was it a 1v1. I honestly can't see this being true man.

SSW TalonNov 14, 20182 votes

Old Talon blink was disgusting and it was what kept his entire kit gated

New Talons entire pattern is way better than old Talons play pattern

But yea, you bring up good points, also what would be the point of getting to 5/0 on Talon, LB, Rengar, Kha, Zed etc if they still didn't wipe out a carry? I dunno what other people on the boards expect.

OverlordVladNov 15, 20181 votes

Old talon had an easier time reaching targets(with damage amp and silence/slow), and that made him bad for game health but new talon can escape far far better than old talon ever could with his near infinite wall hops and that makes him much more frustrating to play against.

The problem here is also that old talon when fed could easily wipe out squishies but tanks didnt go down near as easily back then, new talon however when ahead can wipe out just about everything with impunity (especially when played well) not just the squishies(and with far higher mobility to boot).

SSW TalonNov 15, 20181 votes

i'd honestly rather deal with new Talon wall hopping than old Talon blinking to an ADC and killing 3 squishies if he did his combo correctly

New Talon is the objectively better champion but that's just because he isn't being chained down by the functions of his kit like old Talon was. Also, I think tanks dying so easily is a system issue moreso than it is a Talon issue, % arpen probably needs tuning down to stop this from happening.

KaishaNov 15, 20183 votes

That's completely untrue. I played primarily in S2/S3/S4, no 'nostalgia goggles' just reinstalled (and re-uninstalled I'm done with this mess) near the end of S8.

Damage is far higher, burst is far higher, counterplay is absolutely abysmal. Before a fed LB could still be managed if you played it out as she falls off, now there's no chance. Tanks also could actually take a few hits (as opposed to S8 where they get insta-obliterated) so tanks could counter fed assasins with a bit of help. Both Ali and Rammus were solid against LB in team fights.

In S3 the chance of a comeback when one team got 10+ kills ahead was low, around 10%. In S8 the chance of a comeback when one team gets 5+ kills ahead is less than 3%.

While a fed Vayne or Kass was a bitch, they still had to use abilities, and could be CC/focused down, they never would 5v1 opposing teams. In S8 I've seen so many fed graves, yi's and yasuos jumping in 5v1 and getting 2-3 kills while still dancing away. That would never happen S2-4.

I used to play Rammus alot in S3/S4. S8 had a full ad team, picked rammus, stacked armor. I remember zipping into a graves jungle with over 3k hp and getting 2-shot. I hadn't even hit him with my Q and he killed me... a rammus... in full tank runes/items. No Lissandries or fun stuff just straight 100% tank. That never happened once in the 100's of games I played with him in S3/S4. But give graves 2 items ahead and apparently he's now god-mode?

S Lucian/Thresh combo delete'd my adc at level 2. He landed a grip and before the adc could even flash he was dead. At level 2??? Talon diving towers with no minions around 100-0 mages at level 5... no ult needed apparently.

While sustained dmg is about the same, burst has gone through the roof. Everyone is running around delete'ing each other. There's zero counter play, zero teamwork, zero strategy/positioning/tactics. People can't land skill shots, can't dodge them, because it doesn't matter since they have 60000 dashes and can destroy opponents with a right-click.

The game is an abysmal mess.

S3/4 wasn't perfect, but it was 100x better than this mess...

ShablagooNov 15, 20182 votes

Sustain dmg? What is that I've never heard of it I think that got lost. Everything bursts in the game unless they do no dmg and even not having any items hurts.

VonToothskieNov 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-14T11:43:14.662+0000)

Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon.

Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage.

Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E.

Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar.

Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game.

But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything?

item damage wasnt as powerful then. you may be right about raw kit strength, but back then I played mundo and mundo did what he pleases against assassins. now even a dedicated tank can get killed 1 on 1 in under a second.
So yes. some champs snowball hard, but we used to lump that small group of champions together and called them "carries". now 50% of the roster is carries

Misses Old TalonNov 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-14T11:43:14.662+0000)

Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon.

Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage.

Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E.

Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar.

Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game.

But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything?

Except in season 3 every single health item didnt have damage slapped on. AP assassins wouldnt be reaching 2.5k+health, and an AD assassin wouldnt have spell shields and massive MS buffers from Ghostblade, Edge, and Runes. Season 3 was fine in terms of the meta, just some kits were overloaded. Then season 4 happened where almost every champion lost their silences, and the burst meta of snowballing was balanced. Tanks and a few bruisers could stop the snowball, but not much else. But in return a fed Talon would die instantly after killing his target. Leblanc would be on practically base hp, and 1 or 2 autos from any AD champ would kill her. You either werent playing in the golden age of league, or you cant see the obvious differences.

YennDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-14T11:43:14.662+0000)

Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon.

Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage.

Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E.

Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar.

Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game.

But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything?

Uhh what? This is all so wrong that I don't know what to say. Damage was significantly lower in season 3. The idea of going 100 to 0 in 2-3 seconds was absurd. These champions had more consistent damage, but they didn't 100 to 0 you instantly like they do now.

Hayaishi2Nov 14, 20187 votes

Assassins and divers are the most retarded class in the game. The class are insanely easy to snowball with. Its very low risk high reward.

This line in the OP "How can we recover from our teammate mistakes if there is no counterplay?" sums up the game perfectly

Moody PNov 14, 20189 votes

abusing soloQ bads =/= low risk high reward

Hayaishi2Nov 14, 201811 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-14T13:49:54.351+0000)

abusing soloQ bads =/= low risk high reward

Yes everyone in high elo are soloqueue bads too.

Idk if you are a high elo player. But this whole "soloqueue players are garbage unless they are diamond 1+" mentality is cancer for this game. That elitist way of thinking doesn't help balance.

Dorans PantsNov 14, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Assassins and divers are the most retarded class in the game. The class are insanely easy to snowball with. Its very low risk high reward.

This line in the OP "How can we recover from our teammate mistakes if there is no counterplay?" sums up the game perfectly

Try playing a support that is not a tank with instant point and click cc.

"well, assassins should always be able to one-shot you from wherever they are as long as they are ahead." because having 3 kills suddenly makes the fact that their engages are often completely unavoidable fair.

Completely ignoring that there is a class that is always behind in cs and lvls no matter how good they perform and I can´t tell how often these assassins focus the shit out me as a support, even if it means for them throwing the game away as a result. How are you supposed to position yourself, when the assassin dives behind the frontline, then jumps behind the backline just to chase you, who sat even behind the backline, and dives you under 1 if not 2 towers.

Sure you can make it worth for the team, but that doesn´t change the fact that most of the time you as a player can´t do jack shit to prevent yourself from dying. How can this be enjoyable in any form when in 5 consecutive games the enemy assassin goes full retard mode and just suicides into you over and over. You respawn, you can´t stay in base forever, assassin engages you from 2 screens away, you both die (ideally), rinse and repeat.

Or maybe you shouldn´t be able to engage from any point of the map with stupid mobility.

KaishaNov 15, 20183 votes

And the fun is, even if you kite him away and somehow (magically) survive, you get bitched at for not being in the fight. You die you get bitched at. You play like a god, get fed, go 8/0 at the 20 min mark, top dmg on your team... and you still lose because you're a support and you don't matter. Get back to warding... cause apparently that's all they're good for now.

I remember one game against a Yi as Vel support. He ran right at me... no abilities... straight line. I landed a full combo, W, Q, E, W, ult... he was terrible, ate the full thing. By the time I was done channeling he had made his way up to me, right clicked on me and 2-shot me with autos, before running off with over 1/2 his hp... Apparently I was outplayed?

Once had a level 5 Talon dive me under the bot turret (again on vel). I was level 4 at 100% hp with no minions around. He 100-0 me and flashed away only taking a single turret blast...

Dying/losing to people who outplay you is fine. But this insta-kill, hypermobility, right-click'n'win, gameplay means that FOTM classes are basically god-mode, and the rest of us are just there to feed the whales. Doesn't matter how well you play or how poorly they play, once they get their 1 or 2 items, its game over.

no to toxicNov 15, 20181 votes

You are the one who chose to play a support wich can´t do jackshit against assasins despite being the role wich is there to stop hem

KaishaNov 15, 20181 votes

None of the supports can... that's the problem.

Mr Bob BobersonNov 14, 20183 votes

As an assassin player I can say that diving into the entire enemy team to kill one, maybe two targets, and probably dying yourself is definitely not low risk if it's a good team it will almost always be a one for one trade

Well depending on the Assassin that is Leblanc and Zed might be able to get away but Talon and Rengar will probably end up dying

ParoeNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

As an assassin player I can say that diving into the entire enemy team to kill one, maybe two targets, and probably dying yourself is definitely not low risk if it's a good team it will almost always be a one for one trade

Well depending on the Assassin that is Leblanc and Zed might be able to get away but Talon and Rengar will probably end up dying

Rengar for sure. Rengar is more of a diver than an assassin, though.

Talon is sort of dive-ee, but hes hyper mobile so hes a true assassin.

Mr Bob BobersonNov 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Rengar for sure. Rengar is more of a diver than an assassin, though.

Talon is sort of dive-ee, but hes hyper mobile so hes a true assassin.

Eh i've always considered assassins and divers almost the same class But I guess assassin are more mobile

And yeah Talon is kinda eh when it comes to diving, Usually i burn my ult to kill someone and unless i'm near a wall or have ghost blade up, I probably won't be making it out alive

I even do this with Yasuo, if I'm behind or just can't do much but can still take on the ADC I'll end up solo ulting them just to take them out of the fight, Usually at the cost of my own life depending on how fast i get bursted or if my team decides to go out of their way to save me I'll probably be dead though

WoodenCreatureNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Assassins and divers are the most retarded class in the game. The class are insanely easy to snowball with. Its very low risk high reward.

This line in the OP "How can we recover from our teammate mistakes if there is no counterplay?" sums up the game perfectly

W/o assassins and divers u would be crying that adc is the most retarded class in the game

Cptn Han SoloQNov 14, 20185 votes

Just look at the new champions. Ofc counterplay is dying when every god damn champions gets a "Ps this doesn't work on her/him" somewhere in their kit. It is just a bad design which the developers think is to easy countered and so they remove the counter, ginoring that there are no other counters available. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

oortoomeebreesuuNov 14, 20185 votes

you can't outplay your opponent if you never had a chance to lose the fight to begin with

it's just a numbers thing, there is overtly, undeniably, too much damage for the amount of crowd control and mobility present in the game, and the more you add the more you have to add. It's sickening, and at this point, maybe irreversible. now we're just buffing tanks damage on Maokai Sejuani Ornn like thats going to fix the problem and not make a new one

ZackTheWaffleManNov 14, 20184 votes

if an assassin or assassin-like diver gets to be 5-0 in the early-mid game, then they're literally supposed to one-shot you

HA I am Shaco HANov 14, 20182 votes

Shaco got his abilities nerfed into oblivion because of his stealth, so in this case i'd rather the stealth nerfed and the damage increased tbh.

ModAcademy KaynNov 14, 20182 votes

You're complaining about Assassins, a class that is actually meant to be able to snowball and Solo carry a game when ahead. Yeah, it feels bad when you have to deal with someone who got fed from a teammate, but that's just the reality of a team game.

ParoeNov 14, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-11-14T19:00:11.245+0000)

You're complaining about Assassins, a class that is actually meant to be able to snowball and Solo carry a game when ahead. Yeah, it feels bad when you have to deal with someone who got fed from a teammate, but that's just the reality of a team game.

Actually... Asassins are not meant to be hyper carries. Hyper carries are meant to be sustained damage dealers - marksmen, juggernauts, fighters - not casters.

An assassins job is to COUNTER the hyper carries, by assassinating them. If an assassin has such low cooldowns that they can act as a hypercarry, theyre broken and in need of changes.

5050BSNov 15, 20181 votes

Riot has forgotten their own game. You can see this with the LeB and Rengar roll backs. Riot forgot why they reworked them.

Its because the company's knowledge base left or moved to different roles and the those at the wheel are like 12.

Mr Bob BobersonNov 14, 20181 votes

As a Talon player I can say that a 5/0 Talon does not one shot and can easily be shut down, and can still fall off, I mean he might lack some counterplay depending on the class, He is suppoed to kill ADCs and supports after all, but later on in the game it'll be easier to deal with him

SSW TalonNov 15, 20181 votes

Nah, a 5/0 Talon for sure one shots but yes he can be relatively easily shut down if you can interrupt his Q dash with a cc.

Of course ADCs, mages and supports have a hard time not dying to Talon the majority of them are squishy as you said, a fed Talon is supposed to pick them off asap. However, they still have some counterplay to him, primarily the ones with cc.

Mr Bob BobersonNov 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=SSW Talon,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-11-15T07:06:58.597+0000)

Nah, a 5/0 Talon for sure one shots but yes he can be relatively easily shut down if you can interrupt his Q dash with a cc.

Of course ADCs, mages and supports have a hard time not dying to Talon the majority of them are squishy as you said, a fed Talon is supposed to pick them off asap. However, they still have some counterplay to him, primarily the ones with cc.

0/5 Talon literally cannot one shot unless you just happen to be very low hp

SSW TalonNov 17, 20181 votes

Of course, but we weren't talking about 0/5 Talon we were talking about 5/0 Talon and those are 2 very different cans of worms.

Mr Bob BobersonNov 17, 20181 votes

I mean 5/0 he literally cannot one shot unless you happen to be extremely low health or he uses them so fast it looks like a one shot

SSW TalonNov 29, 20181 votes

Oh you mean actually 100-0 in 1 hit? Yeah, nobody can do that though.

In terms of insta-gibbing which is probably what the people in this thread were talking about, Talon is one of the quickest and most reliable at doing that, especially with a lead.

Mr Bob BobersonNov 29, 20181 votes

It's confusing when people don't specify, Most of the time I just assume some salty person means they literally one shot when no one can do that, I mean I have seen legitimate one shots but it's extremely rare

I just wish people would specify between a one shot and a very quick combo that kills you very fast

SSW TalonDec 1, 20182 votes

Yea people have a bad habit of not really differentiating an insta-gib and an actual one shot. Legitimate one shots require you to be like 25/0 and have a 3 item lead but insta-gibs most certainly don't.

Mr Bob BobersonDec 3, 20181 votes

This is indeed true, most one shots require either that or a lot of set up and some stupid meme build Like Jhin with the rageblade bug and celerity

ShablagooNov 15, 20181 votes

Isnt that the idea of assassins though to get a lead and then win the game. Thats literally all they could do, sounds like the Talon outplayed you by keeping his lead and controlling the whole game to me. Also seems like you just dont like playing against assassins too.

MOuHahaHAhahaaaaNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Isnt that the idea of assassins though to get a lead and then win the game. Thats literally all they could do, sounds like the Talon outplayed you by keeping his lead and controlling the whole game to me. Also seems like you just dont like playing against assassins too.

getting 100% to 0 in 3 shots by an assassin while having 300 armor with malphite getting a good amount of cs and kills seems normal to you ? A shaco player defending assassins it's normal... However you aren't being honest about assassins in general in this meta. i Play since season 2 and they never have been this broken in the game.

ShablagooNov 15, 20181 votes

Where anywhere in my statement did I say that assassins should be oneshotting tanks, also can you show me proof of an assassin doing that? Bro you took what I said an made some random nonsensical and road with it. You seriously think that me saying that assassins should be able to keep their lead and spread it around the map is equal to them being able to oneshot tanks? How does that work?

My point is that a assassins who spreads his lead around the map and is able to control the game has outplayed you. That is how they have always functioned. They get a lead early and close the game early with that lead. Just like adc's farm early and become powerhouses later. Also I main rengar but in truth I play what is meta, thats why I play xin, graves, jax, and MF. I'm not exclusively a assassin player, but I am a assassin main. I can tell you Kass is overbuffed, and akali is annoying to play against. However I can understand the feeling of being able to get a lead and push it all over the map. That is not the same as being able to oneshot tanks, that is something that you made up to make some random point. I dont care what season you played in man, it still doesn't change the fact that what you said is bullshit and has nothing to do with what I said.

MOuHahaHAhahaaaaNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Where anywhere in my statement did I say that assassins should be oneshotting tanks, also can you show me proof of an assassin doing that? Bro you took what I said an made some random nonsensical and road with it. You seriously think that me saying that assassins should be able to keep their lead and spread it around the map is equal to them being able to oneshot tanks? How does that work?

My point is that a assassins who spreads his lead around the map and is able to control the game has outplayed you. That is how they have always functioned. They get a lead early and close the game early with that lead. Just like adc's farm early and become powerhouses later. Also I main rengar but in truth I play what is meta, thats why I play xin, graves, jax, and MF. I'm not exclusively a assassin player, but I am a assassin main. I can tell you Kass is overbuffed, and akali is annoying to play against. However I can understand the feeling of being able to get a lead and push it all over the map. That is not the same as being able to oneshot tanks, that is something that you made up to make some random point. I dont care what season you played in man, it still doesn't change the fact that what you said is bullshit and has nothing to do with what I said.

the issue is that assassins at this point have too much tools to escape after killing. and that even in 3v1.

ShablagooNov 16, 20181 votes

After getting one kill, they need to or else they wouldn't be any different from divers. Also that literally has nothing to do with oneshotting tanks, you said none of that in the original response. Regardless its simply solved by cc, get a item 3364 when Talon goes invisible. There is counterplay, especially for Talon which you are talking about. There is also the fact that you can play mid and make sure that Talon doesnt get fed in the first place, you can ping missing when Talon is missing, or you can outroam Talon and affect the map more then Talon. There is counter-play you just refuse to accept you own misgivings. I am not defending burst or saying that it isnt high or that certain champions are not op. Talon isnt one assassin I would think is op, compared to assassins like akali or Kassadin. However you have to accept responsibility to some extent, it isnt always the champion, sometimes another palyer outplays you and you lose.