Tired of off meta supports in my ranked games + potential solution

Hallbuster·Jun 14, 2017·2 votes·1,625 views

First things first, playing off meta is not punishable, Riot has made that clear. However, in low Elo where ADC's depend everything on a good support, playing off meta means they will likely get a bad one. Therefore, I have come up with a possible solution, forcing supports to pick a certain champion if the ADC deems it necessary. Before you say, I have my rights, why did you buy the champion in the first place if you're not going to use it as intended?

For example, support has Blitzcrank, but wants to pick, say, Volibear. The ADC should reserve the right to look at their champion pool and force them to pick a given champion.

Thoughts?

73 Comments

ParoeJun 14, 20178 votes

Okay. In that case the support should be able to look into the botlanes champion pool and force them to pick only an ADC they personally feel they can support.

Because a lot of times people are better at supporting specific bot laners. I, for example, find it very hard to support an ezreal or an ashe but find it very easy to support a xayah and a caitlyn. So i should make my marksman pick ONLY xayah and caitlyn, right?

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Okay. In that case the support should be able to look into the botlanes champion pool and force them to pick only an ADC they personally feel they can support.

Because a lot of times people are better at supporting specific bot laners. I, for example, find it very hard to support an ezreal or an ashe but find it very easy to support a xayah and a caitlyn. So i should make my marksman pick ONLY xayah and caitlyn, right?

Supports don't get any say because they are supports, they look after the team and try to keep everyone alive. That's their job, people like ADC's and Mid lane players like me are expected to carry. We have the heaviest burden. If we lose it's completely on us. However me and the ADC can't always carry the team if the support feeds their butt off and makes 0 contribution to the team.

TranquiIityJun 14, 20171 votes

I agree with the support feeding and everything, but "supports don't get any say because they are supports" do you realize how unfair that it for supports? There are already a lot number of people playing support and if the ADC just gets to force the support to play whoever, its no fun and the ADC could troll. Also, every role in this game plays a really huge part in this game. Maybe most of the supports you're getting got autofilled?

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I agree with the support feeding and everything, but "supports don't get any say because they are supports" do you realize how unfair that it for supports? There are already a lot number of people playing support and if the ADC just gets to force the support to play whoever, its no fun and the ADC could troll. Also, every role in this game plays a really huge part in this game. Maybe most of the supports you're getting got autofilled?

Of course it's unfair, playing support by in large means you aren't confident enough to lead the team. Instead you depend on others who won't crack under pressure, and can play consistently from start to finish. Even if I go 10/0 even a single death can set my team behind, because that's 450 gold I'm giving up while the rest of my team is slaughtered because only 2 people aren't feeding.

CannonLordFreedJun 14, 20171 votes

You sound like the kind of person who bitches about autofill.

S0und16Jun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What about auto fill then, why is Riot making me play a role I have no experience with and forcing me to dodge and lose 3 lap with it?

He did it.

CannonLordFreedJun 14, 20171 votes

Hypocrisy, we found the hypocrisy! I got bingo! What do I win? Oh, I get to stay in this saltwater shower. Welp.

TranquiIityJun 14, 20171 votes

I play support AND MID a lot and this generally offends me because supports can have the hugest impacts on your team. Such as Nami who's ult can kick off a fight or Lulu whos spells have amazing sustain and laning. Also this sounds like some of your supports just suck because i've played adc before and my lux support was generally really helpful with snare.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I play support AND MID a lot and this generally offends me because supports can have the hugest impacts on your team. Such as Nami who's ult can kick off a fight or Lulu whos spells have amazing sustain and laning. Also this sounds like some of your supports just suck because i've played adc before and my lux support was generally really helpful with snare.

Both lulu and lux are meta, I don't have a problem with either champions.

Yes, I've read the comment where ADC's could likely troll and make them pick an even worse support champion but why would they try and do this in a ranked game?

NGNL AsianJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Both lulu and lux are meta, I don't have a problem with either champions.

Yes, I've read the comment where ADC's could likely troll and make them pick an even worse support champion but why would they try and do this in a ranked game?

And lux is not a meta support at all

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=NGNL Asian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ne9PdvPe,comment-id=0001000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-14T01:31:58.033+0000)

And lux is not a meta support at all

Not with a 45 percent winrate?

TranquiIityJun 14, 20171 votes

Can you clarify about what winrate has to do about defining a meta/off-meta support?

HaIlMonitorJun 14, 20171 votes

I think he meant to reference play rate. She is ranked above lulu in play in bronze.... but it is bronze so sion support is technically the strongest based on win rate.

NGNL AsianJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not with a 45 percent winrate?

winrates don't mean that much. Lee sin has a pretty low winrate considering how strong that champion is. In cases like ahri before nerfs, she had high pickrate and winrate so they had to nerf her.

Pie CubedJun 14, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Supports don't get any say because they are supports, they look after the team and try to keep everyone alive. That's their job, people like ADC's and Mid lane players like me are expected to carry. We have the heaviest burden. If we lose it's completely on us. However me and the ADC can't always carry the team if the support feeds their butt off and makes 0 contribution to the team.

I'm glad I'm not in your elo; I'll never have to support an ADC of your likes, or you specifically
Support is a highly influential role and often do far more than they're credited for.
We aren't the ADC's little bitch slave. We're there to provide for the team and save the ADC's ass if they get caught out overextending for one cs. You aren't the boss of the support. You're just one of the people on the team.

ParoeJun 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Supports don't get any say because they are supports, they look after the team and try to keep everyone alive. That's their job, people like ADC's and Mid lane players like me are expected to carry. We have the heaviest burden. If we lose it's completely on us. However me and the ADC can't always carry the team if the support feeds their butt off and makes 0 contribution to the team.

So your entire argument boils down to "SUPPORTS ARENT IMPORTANT" "I AM IMPORTANT AS I AM THE ADC" and "I HAVE THE GREATEST BURDEN"

Okay.

A support is not a slave or a second class citizen. They dont belong to you or anyone else on the team. Further, they dont even have to support YOU or be a support at all. The whole "1 tank top, one jungler, one mage mid, 1 marksman, and 1 support" is a meta. its the macro meta, and the meta does not have to adhered to.

CannonLordFreedJun 14, 20177 votes

Yes, let's just pull someone off of the champ they have mastery 7 with, have hundreds of games on, knows how to play well, and adores playing, to put them on a champ they've potentially played all of three times. If you can't trust a support to do their job, get a duo partner, or go play a different lane. No support wants to deal with your vitriol.

SnakDatSmilesBakJun 14, 20171 votes

Vitriol is an outstanding description, nice word choice!

Pippen The ShortJun 14, 20176 votes

No.

Here's a better solution; git gud.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pippen The Short,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ne9PdvPe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-14T00:57:53.853+0000)

No.

No as in what, no they shouldn't give up personal satisfaction for the benefit of the team. No it's not a good idea? No, I don't have a good argument so I'm just going to leave an incomplete sentence here?

Edit: I'm good enough to carry myself out of bronze. That doesn't mean I want to spend 9/10 games with a useless support feeding.

Pippen The ShortJun 14, 20171 votes

Here, an actual response; the demands placed in the original post are so unreasonable, there is no point in detailing a rebut. You can't force people to do what they don't want to do. That's just an absurd argument to even make. How someone could even come up with an argument like that, is just beyond me and reveals just how deprave their view on the world is. Everyone does not have to serve your interests and you need to learn to accept that.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pippen The Short,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ne9PdvPe,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-14T01:13:41.154+0000)

Here, an actual response; the demands placed in the original post are so unreasonable, there is no point in detailing a rebut. You can't force people to do what they don't want to do. That's just an absurd argument to even make. How someone could even come up with an argument like that, is just beyond me and reveals just how deprave their view on the world is. Everyone does not have to serve your interests and you need to learn to accept that.

What about auto fill then, why is Riot making me play a role I have no experience with and forcing me to dodge and lose 3 lp with it?

Pippen The ShortJun 14, 20171 votes

No one is forcing you to autofill. You accept the risk and reality of autofill by playing the game.

Also, if you really do dodge everytime you get autofilled, you are way more self centered and narcissistic than I imagined. Learn how to play off roles and accept that it's part of the game.

Ya know, you should probably quit playing league and get some counseling. You have a lot of personal issues and self centered perspective that you need to work through before playing a team based game.

SnakDatSmilesBakJun 14, 20171 votes

It's a game, cool it with the issues and counseling. There's no need for that.

Pippen The ShortJun 14, 20173 votes

I am firmly of the opinion that everyone should take anger management counseling, especially people that let their frustration and anger get to this level. This dude makes posts like this all time, complaining about people in his games.

Besides, even mentally "healthy" people could use some counseling time and again as a means of betterment of character, self understanding, and mechanisms to be productive and problem solve in a peaceful environment.

S0und16Jun 14, 20171 votes

No, they shouldn't. You have to remember, no matter what rank you are, that it's a game. You aren't going to lose a whole bunch of money unless you're in LCS; and since nobody really knows anyone here, you probably aren't. I'm starting to get into ADC, but I think that everyone should have a good time playing what they want to, even if we're getting stomped.

MagnumopaiJun 14, 20176 votes

BOY.

Sit down and talk to your school counselor/therapist. Your input and feedback strongly hints at you being a habitual hypocrite, borderline personality and/or sociopath.

You say you can't even handle the experience of auto-fill but you want to ROB ANOTHER HUMAN BEING of all of their freedom to do anything outside of serve your childish and asinine whimsy.

What you're suggesting is almost as degrading as forcing the game to be an endless TUTORIAL MODE.

Any mind that would conceive of such a policy lacks moral principle and the essentials of mature reasoning.

This is not an insult, this is an honest-to-God diagnosis of your sordid character.

TheLastShadow45Jun 14, 20174 votes

Learn to not 100% rely on the support to do well.

F0zzyBearJun 14, 20174 votes

As an ADC main I abhor this post suggesting that in some way the support owes you anything. No, you should not take away their pick, the solution is for you to learn characters that are flexible and don't completely rely on the support. You will get great supports and you'll get 0/10/2 full AP Lux supports, you have to plow through it and work at making yourself better.

3TWarriorJun 14, 20172 votes

this was a few seasons ago but...

adc: dude, go thresh

me: ummm

adc: just go thresh

in game ADC: wtf, report this thresh!

me: you're the one who made me play a champion I have 0 games with

NGNL AsianJun 14, 20173 votes

lololol If you rely on your sup to win bot, then you are bad, no offense. Like having a off-meta sup doesn't mean shit as long as they have the fundamentals of supports:

warding
Not taking cs
Sup item

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=NGNL Asian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ne9PdvPe,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-14T01:31:37.835+0000)

lololol If you rely on your sup to win bot, then you are bad, no offense. Like having a off-meta sup doesn't mean shit as long as they have the fundamentals of supports:

warding

Not taking cs

Sup item

Off meta supports like Volibear not only hurt the ADC but the entire team. Just played a game where our ADC complained his support was taking all his CS. After looking at the menu, our ADC Ezreal had 80 CS while our support had 120. Turns out he wasn't just taking the CS from bot lane but from mid and top as well.

TranquiIityJun 14, 20171 votes

The number 2 was Not taking CS and if they don't follow those 3 rules most likely they haven't learned the art of supports

ParoeJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Off meta supports like Volibear not only hurt the ADC but the entire team. Just played a game where our ADC complained his support was taking all his CS. After looking at the menu, our ADC Ezreal had 80 CS and our support had 120. Turns out he wasn't just taking the CS from bot lane but from mid and top as well.

wait... You arent even a marksman main. Youre a vlad main o.O

Also can i have a link to the game youre talking about?

CannonLordFreedJun 14, 20173 votes

That's a legitimate troll, not someone playing off meta. They probably got autofilled and didn't give a fuck. I used to play Old Galio as support all the time, had a great time, won lane for my bitch-ass ADC who thought I was playing a shit champ, and just generally enjoyed myself playing the champ I wanted. You seem to be confusing "Off-meta" with "Troll" and it's making you look like a dumbass.

TranquiIityJun 14, 20171 votes

Agreed.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's a legitimate troll, not someone playing off meta. They probably got autofilled and didn't give a fuck. I used to play Old Galio as support all the time, had a great time, won lane for my bitch-ass ADC who thought I was playing a shit champ, and just generally enjoyed myself playing the champ I wanted. You seem to be confusing "Off-meta" with "Troll" and it's making you look like a dumbass.

Statistics don't lie, out of every game I played, it was always the auto filled support that trolled. It didn't matter if he was on my team or the other team, there was always one and it was always had to be the support. Why, because he didn't play Meta and couldn't do anything for the team once he started feeding. So he just gave up!

CannonLordFreedJun 14, 20172 votes

It was always the auto filled support

Umm... Do you think, that maybe, possibly, that might be the most important factor here, and not the fact that they were playing off meta?

ParoeJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Statistics don't lie, out of every game I played, it was always the auto filled support that trolled. It didn't matter if he was on my team or the other team, there was always one and it was always had to be the support. Why, because he didn't play Meta and couldn't do anything for the team once he started feeding. So he just gave up!

.... So what youre saying is that someone who filled to the least desired role in the game doesnt understand the role to begin with? Im looking at the match there and i see someone who doesnt understand support who was likely autofilled and tried to make up for his teams lack of waveclear and split push by building the only way they knew how.

Thats... more an autofill problem than anything else. If the volibear was like... 1/8/2 while the ezreal was 1/2/3 then youd have a point but.... their KDA is comparable. YOUR KDA on the other hand - when compared to that of your team - indicates that you werent there for team fights and didnt group. Considering your score and your AP, you could have easily split pushed. But the post-game chat seems to say that you instead gave up?

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

.... So what youre saying is that someone who filled to the least desired role in the game doesnt understand the role to begin with? Im looking at the match there and i see someone who doesnt understand support who was likely autofilled and tried to make up for his teams lack of waveclear and split push by building the only way they knew how.

Thats... more an autofill problem than anything else. If the volibear was like... 1/8/2 while the ezreal was 1/2/3 then youd have a point but.... their KDA is comparable. YOUR KDA on the other hand - when compared to that of your team - indicates that you werent there for team fights and didnt group. Considering your score and your AP, you could have easily split pushed. But the post-game chat seems to say that you instead gave up?

I'm not a person that like's blaming my team, it's what kept me from climbing for awhile and can literally make you drop entire divisions once you do. That being said, my chances of winning the game were, close to 10 percent give or take with( takes a deep breath) everyone feeding. I'm not saying they were the main reason we lost, but..... there's only so much you can do as one person. I did try split pushing for awhile until they reached our inhibitor, then I was forced to make a recall and by then the game was over.

ParoeJun 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=NGNL Asian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ne9PdvPe,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-14T01:31:37.835+0000)

lololol If you rely on your sup to win bot, then you are bad, no offense. Like having a off-meta sup doesn't mean shit as long as they have the fundamentals of supports:

warding

Not taking cs

Sup item

Cringy but yes i must agree - a support is a support as long as they follow the doctrine. item 2049 item 3341 are the only "must haves" for any would be support. Whether the champion they chose is capable of support is another matter... because you need reliable soft CC or hard CC to be capable.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Cringy but yes i must agree - a support is a support as long as they follow the doctrine. are the only "must haves" for any would be support. Whether the champion they chose is capable of support is another matter... because you need reliable soft CC or hard CC to be capable.

Any champion can be a support, any champion can go top, any champion can go mid, any champion can go bot, and any champion can jungle. Is there anything else I missed? Yes, there's a meta, a meta you should follow because you want to play a champion that suits the team, not because you "felt like it."

ParoeJun 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Any champion can be a support, any champion can go top, any champion can go mid, and champions go bot, and any champion can jungle. Is there anything else I missed? Yes, there's a meta, a meta you should follow because you want to play a champion that suits the team, not because you "felt like it."

Thats a fallacy. In order to support - to actually fill the support role and not just be another bot laner - you need to be actively SUPPORTING the marksman. To support the marksman the easiest and generally most accepted method is to "set up kills". Setting up kills can be done via reliable soft CC - DrMundo cleavers for example - or good hard CC - Kennen stun.

As long as you have CC, arent stealing CS and purchase the doctrine, you can claim to be a support. Theres also a HUGE difference between "stealing CS" and "taking CS". In lower ELOs bot laners will miss 60~80% of CS. In higher ELOs its perfectly acceptable for the support to take what CS the marksman simply cant. In lower ELOs its unacceptable because "MUH CS!!!!!!!". Last season when i was a support main i even had ADCs rage quit over me out CSing them - with nothing but a face of the mountain.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thats a fallacy. In order to support - to actually fill the support role and not just be another bot laner - you need to be actively SUPPORTING the marksman. To support the marksman the easiest and generally most accepted method is to "set up kills". Setting up kills can be done via reliable soft CC - cleavers for example - or good hard CC - stun.

As long as you have CC, arent stealing CS and purchase the doctrine, you can claim to be a support. Theres also a HUGE difference between "stealing CS" and "taking CS". In lower ELOs bot laners will miss 60~80% of CS. In higher ELOs its perfectly acceptable for the support to take what CS the marksman simply cant. In lower ELOs its unacceptable because "MUH CS!!!!!!!". Last season when i was a support main i even had ADCs rage quit over me out CSing them - with nothing but a face of the mountain.

He took so much CS out of bot lane, our Ezreal couldn't finish a single build before the game ended. That's how much support Volibear took.

3TWarriorJun 14, 20171 votes

it was such an uncommon occurrence, but you made me remember, lol. Those poor souls who don't understand how a support can function

why are you taking my CS? because you have 0.7 attack speed and the entire spellcaster minion wave targeted that one minion while your auto attack is on "cooldown" XD

though relic shield and etc are worse in regard to people thinking you are taking their farm.

Had a game once where we had 3 marksmen bottom (no one wanted to switch) the Ashe and I ran relic shield and fed kills which could have rightfully been ours to the "carry" well, 5 minutes in, we are 6/0 with 4 of that for the carry and plenty of gold

then "carry" : You aren't playing the game right, ughh

they leave to "jungle", promptly get their ego handed to them on a silver platter by the opposing jungler and the underfed real carries could not carry when our setup was ruined

5 minutes in, a tower at 5% or less health, 6 kills and plenty of CS for everyone...all ruined by that one "carry" XD

dolphinosplash24Jun 14, 20172 votes

Why doesnt everyone just pick each others champions then. Maybe i wnat my jg to play urgot and my top lane to play janna.

HallbusterJun 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why doesnt everyone just pick each others champions then. Maybe i wnat my jg to play urgot and my top lane to play janna.

Supports are supposed to follow their ADC, hence support them.

3TWarriorJun 14, 20172 votes

Bard

any kill lane support

Illaoi : I can only laugh when you call me "support"

Zilean : umm, i'm technically not a support but I work well as one and I was reworked kit-wise to accomodate this

Yorick : everyone forgets yorick...I forget whether it's a thing or not at this point

Morgana : they will all fall before me

Blitzcrank : i'm not even a support...my stats just suck and I was permanently placed in bottom lane because I have tremendous kill pressure (due to mana shield, his base stats are low)

Nautilus : even as a support, no one knows the depths of my power!

Sion : what's that? you killed them? I did 90% of the damage and i'm currently one of if not the only support that can be a threat even when dead

Ziggs : hey look, no more AD meta! wait...there are like 3 of you in the other lanes...

Mordekaiser : KALISTA...IS MY SUPPORT!

: I have a declining win rate, but I out scale my marksman!

There are more. A support's job is to help the team, not just make sure the "carry" doesn't feed the match to the opponents

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 14, 20171 votes

here is a list of champs who are accepted as a support now but was consider off meta Anivia Annie Fiddlesticks Galio Gragas Lux Malphite Malzahar Maokai MissFortune Morgana Nautilus Shen Syndra Taliyah Trundle Velkoz Xerath Zyra

due to item changes, buffs, nerfs, indirect and direct , meta shifts etc all these champs once were designed for a different role and in due to changes in game made it META for them to be supports

volibear support was fairly common. its not ideally great but it can work if you and the person playing it understand how to play the lane and play to strengths and weakness

RogueWillJun 14, 20173 votes

Back when the meta was melee engage supports volibear was a very viable support, so it was mundo with his self regeneration. Now that the meta has changed to ranged mage supports it has been difficult for melee supports without dashes to overcome the range difference