Remember when AP Tryndamere was a thing?

ABlueQuaker·Sep 6, 2016·48 votes·2,977 views

And it got immediately gutted as soon as it started getting played in the LCS?

THEN WHY THE F@$& IS IT ACCEPTABLE FOR AND TO BUILD FULL TANK/OFF-TANK AND NOT EVEN GET TOUCHED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS??

62 Comments

MunchCrunchLunchSep 6, 201622 votes

tank ekko build has been nerfed. pretty much close to 15 times since his release and his still viable ass an off tank

because of his cc really. even though he falls off late game. he still has the cc to back up the rest of the game

start by not nerfing ekko. or tank builds

but by first. reducing the damage. across the board. so a squishie doesn't die. in 0.21 seconds. and a tank doesn't die in around 2.5-3 seconds.

even when i skip black cleaver on darius. and go. full. balls the the walls tank. 4k hp. and 200+ resistances. i still get melted in relatively short time compared to last season.

give them better reason to build squishy. or at least. meh bruisery. not 90% tank.

right now melee carries. and bruisers. suck. the only thing they can do. is splitpush. and splitpushing is very very hard to pull off. even a fed jax. sucks. in team fights. exahust. cc. you dead. you have nowhere to go. the adc does 600+ damage an auto to you. later

ABlueQuakerSep 6, 20168 votes

Well actually, the build just keeps changing. Full tank, IBG tank, TriForce tank...

RalanrSep 6, 20165 votes

Fuck triforce. I've always hated that item.

MelledoneusSep 6, 20165 votes

Now, now. No need to be up in arms at an item because of the she-demon octopus hair of top lane.

RalanrSep 6, 20162 votes

I don't blame it for Illaoi. I blame it for Irelia.

MelledoneusSep 7, 20161 votes

HOW DID YOU GET ILLAOI FROM OCTOPUS HAIR?!?

I'll let you know Illaoi has very well-groomed braids, MISTER.

RalanrSep 7, 20162 votes

Tentacles is what came to mind. Did you mean Irelia?

MelledoneusSep 7, 20162 votes

Yes.

Illaoi is more of a physical drill sargeant than a she-demon.

Troll for TrumpSep 7, 20161 votes

Illaoi shouldn't ever get Triforce.

I mean, it was cool initially, but it's not worth it unless you're really ahead.

IBG is really solid on her, though most people don't like building it on her.

CeexSettSep 6, 201611 votes

1 - By who is that Darius shred excatly? The full enemy team?

2- ADCS have always. dealt. 600+ damage. in late game. that.is not. new

3 - tanks dont die in 3 seconds unless its a 1v5. there is nothing more to discuss. Its the truth.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 6, 201610 votes

{quoted}

1 - By who is that Darius shred excatly? The full enemy team?

2- ADCS have always. dealt. 600+ damage. in late game. that.is not. new

3 - tanks dont die in 3 seconds unless its a 1v5. there is nothing more to discuss. Its the truth.

adcs didn't have all those masteries that gives them 5% damage amp here. 5% damage amp there. 2.5% here and 2.5% there and 3% here. and frevor. the mastery that gives adcs pretty much 20% more damage. even more if your lucian.

ridiculous. also armor pen items are way better agaisnt tanks now. because lord dominks damage amp.

also infernal dragons.

also every single tank item has been nerfed last and this season as well.

CeexSettSep 6, 20169 votes

BS, there isn't that much damage amp in masteries. You have some armor pen, which existed already, some flat armor pen, but for that you have to take thunderlords, some attack speed/ability damage, which existed already. The only new thing giving damage is Fervor, which I admit is a bit stronger than it should be.

HawkefireSep 7, 20161 votes

The difference is mostly that masteries (largely due to keystones), give significantly stronger benefits in the earlygame and midgame (and technically the lategame but it doesn't matter as much there).

Troll for TrumpSep 7, 20161 votes

Maybe nerf item 3078 and item 3025 (The most popular sheen items, maybe up the cost on IBG?) and buff item 3100 (It has been buffed, but it's still not good enough; This may, however be attributed to the champs that build Lich Bane just not being viable in this meta).

I coulda sworn they said Ekko would be up for changes in the assassin update. Now, I'm not sure.

A lot of tank builds are also possible because of the free dmg off keystones. Even though the ones they abuse(fervor and Grasp) have been nerfed, the nerfs just hurt other champs and seem to have little impact on champs like Bruiser Ekko/Yas. This means that the problem is those two champs.

The problem isn't so much as the dmg, as those two champs having particularly overloaded kits.

Voluug13Sep 7, 20162 votes

Nerfing the sheen items that Ekko abuses only hurts everyone that uses said items and is balanced.

Ekko will just migrate to another item to abuse, or simply build Lich Bane and 1 AP item then go full tank.

The real problem are assassins with utility, mobility, good/high scalings and base damages.

Troll for TrumpSep 7, 20161 votes

The thing is basically everyone abuses the Sheen item at this point. IBG and Triforce have been some of the most popular items this season.

The thing is with the Lich Bane and 1 AP item, he's going to basically be regular AP ekko for the rest of the game. These days, games pretty much end at 2 items+boots.

Voluug13Sep 7, 20161 votes

Abuses, or uses? Yeah Ekko and Yasuo are abusing the item, but an item being strong on the champions its intended to be used on its not abusing. If specific champions like Irelia are too strong with the item, that is generally a problem of meta and the chmpions itself, but aside from Jax and Irelia, there arent many strong Trinity users. And I am being generous by calling Irelia and Jax strong because their winrates are firm on the 50% and their playrates are pretty much under 10% both.

Basically, the problem are Yasuo and Ekko, not the items. Nerf Trinity, watch them find another item to abuse while building tank and abusing the fuck out of mastery damage. Utility assassins with %hp damage are cancer, simple as that.

Troll for TrumpSep 7, 20161 votes

They use it normally, but Trinity got overbuffed.The overbuffs just pushed certain champions over the top, like Irelia and Jax and opened the gate to things like Yasuo and Ekko.

Not just trinity, but iceborn.

Yaas doesn't have percent damage. His kit is overloaded, but he doesn't need a sheen item. If he did, he'd be rushing it. Ekko taking Lich bane would be fine. You actually need considerable AP to make Lich Bane worth it.

Voluug13Sep 10, 20161 votes

Both Jax and Irelia are both winrate, banrate and playrate balanced.

And YES, Yasuo IS RUSHING TRINITY. That is the entire root of this ''trinity is OP PLEASE NERF'' bandwagon, Yasuo and Ekko rushing it because their utility, base damage and survivability allows them to abuse a bunch of items they shouldnt have access to.

SoundChaosDebugSep 6, 201611 votes

because those characters have flashy plays that involve more than just hitting R, even though yasuo could technically just hit R and still make plays.

VeltoxSep 6, 20162 votes

Still broken and obnoxious but as long it makes Riot money then fine but if only they would use it for things people asked for a long time like league movie or anime.

Hello I am BirdSep 6, 20168 votes

Hasn't ekko been nerfed... Repeatedly.

IceKingChernobogSep 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hello I am Bird,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NaoWMYQa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-06T06:44:32.035+0000)

Hasn't ekko been nerfed... Repeatedly.

Yes, he has. The problem with ekko is his god damn utility. As long as a good portion of his utility remains there will still be Tankko.

EnloctSep 7, 20162 votes

The problem is that Riot released a champion with a kit that screams tank, called him an assassin, and legitimately seems to believe Ekko's kit could be anything but a tank's. AP Ekko will not be viable without tank Ekko being OP, unless he sees a full rework.

Zane ZephyrSep 6, 20168 votes

Ekko has been hit repeatedly and is actually getting hit again this patch if im not mistaken

THE RlVER KlNGSep 6, 20161 votes

Yeah because -3 Ad is a substantial nerf

Zane ZephyrSep 7, 20161 votes

He actually had a change on the PBE that had to deal with his ult damage, but it looks like it got scrapped, I didn't even that he had that nerf as well.

He actually did have nerfs to his ult and his W but they got reverted.

THE RlVER KlNGSep 7, 20161 votes

Anything to hurt precious Ekko before Worlds is too much I see

Zane ZephyrSep 7, 20161 votes

I never said that at all. All I did was state facts.

Maximum MordeSep 6, 20164 votes

Pepperidge Farm remembers

Cloud273Sep 6, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=FA Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NaoWMYQa,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-06T06:37:43.155+0000)

And it got immediately gutted as soon as it started getting played in the LCS?

THEN WHY THE F@$& IS IT ACCEPTABLE FOR AND TO BUILD FULL TANK/OFF-TANK AND NOT EVEN GET TOUCHED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS??

Because Yasuo isn't being played in LCS. As for Ekko, I'm not sure what Riot is going to do with him.

VeltoxSep 6, 20161 votes

Do you even watch LCS?[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Sire HippingtonSep 6, 20164 votes

The qualifier were his first(frequent) apearance in a while, and he gets nerfed just the next patch after he saw pro play. Thats a faster reaction than on ap-tryn actually....

ProfDrDeathSep 6, 20163 votes

The nerfs for Yasuo even were on PBE before Yasuo was even played...

HateDaddySep 6, 20162 votes

Because neither of these are nearly as abusive, unhealthy and overpowered as AP Trynd

agbudarSep 6, 20162 votes

[zombie-brand-mindblown] wtf did i just read

Spaceman5pffSep 6, 20162 votes

AP Tryndamere is still perfectly playable! item 3115 item 3146 item 3124

Akali is SO HOTSep 6, 20162 votes

Because those kinds of off builds are 20 times worse to play against. AP Trynd and AP Rengar were both nerfed pretty quick because the playstyle is exactly the opposite of what the characters were intended to do. Yasuo and Ekko still play like Yasuo and Ekko even with these builds. Trynd and Rengar did not.

SlashStrikerSep 6, 20162 votes

people can build tank items despite what champions they play. Just because we haven't seen tank Vayne Vayne doesn't mean there are not people who build her this way

Yasuo is getting nerfed next patch but i doubt people will stop building tank yasuo

MasterYi is suppose to be Critical Strike Champion. No jungle item that supports that item 3153 item 3071 item 1419 item 3742 item 3102 item 3022 You see how many critical strike items i got?

arc95Sep 6, 20162 votes

geez why cant people read surrenderat20 before they farm upvotes with Yasuo threads

They are nerfing tank Yasuo... they're making his bonus pen only apply to crits and they're nerfing his attack speed scaling meaning you have to build attack speed to reach your Q cooldown cap...the nerf will probably come through on the next patch(worlds patch)

VoidStaresBackSep 7, 20162 votes

Because AP Tryndamere was a very simple fix: gut AP ratios. it's simple, easy, and cut-and-dried.

With Ekko and Yasuo, the combination of their kits and the fact that their tanky builds still give them decent damage from one/two damage items when used on a sustained damage champion like themselves while also giving them stats they'd like anyway (tank stats) makes it a lot harder to change. You can't just remove the utility from their kit, at that point you may as well rework them. There isn't one number you can tweak to change things to keep them from building tanky is to make them completely unviable to begin with, and while an argument can be made that they are annoying to fight there are nowhere near at the level of genuinely problematic as the two champions I can think of who've also received this type of gutting, old Yorick and Aatrox (I'm not counting high skill-cap champions who were made basically useless to beginners by balancing for high tier play like Azir or Kalista). Yorick was gutted because his lane was ridiculously safe and basically uncounterable by any champion while Aatrox was gutted for being unbalanceable because he is one of the purest forms of a stat check in league of legends.

TL;DR: There isn't an easy way to force their build path, unlike with Tryndamere.

Best princess EUSep 6, 20161 votes

tank yasuo will be dead in next patch.

morris1Sep 6, 201611 votes

Not really. He still rushes Phantom Dancer that already gives 60% crit chance and he can get a cloak then build bruiser again.

ABlueQuakerSep 6, 20169 votes

Pretty much. Off-Tank Yasuo still generally looks something like item 3047 item 3031 item 3046 item 3022 item 3143 item 3026 .

Literally just standard Yasuo + anything with % Damage reduction or defensive gimmick + mallet.

doombotMECHASep 6, 20162 votes

well I mean with utility like that, who needs damage?

Small TiddiesSep 6, 20161 votes

the sad thing is that changing his passive to 30% increased crit chance or 25% so he has to buy MORE crit items to Garen tee crits so he has less item slots for tank items.