I don't get why so many "supports" have a problem with buying sightstone.

TheLittlestLulu·Nov 25, 2016·79 votes·3,361 views

Back in my day supports were expected to buy 2 low stat GP10 items, boots, and nothing else but green and pink wards or else they were trolling.

Kids these days.

151 Comments

BakedLotionNov 25, 201618 votes

People who dont buy sightstone are people who were forced to play support

DoseqisNov 25, 201617 votes

This is why,

You are ahead buy item 2049

You are behind buy item 2049

there is no diversity in support builds and it is really boring buying the same items every single game and doing the same thing every game.

KoKobotoNov 25, 20163 votes

I find support builds pretty diverse right now, there's 4 different types of sightstone, item 3190 is situational and they lowered the cost on supportive tank items so you can get to them easier.

VerdadeNov 25, 20162 votes

Support items are crap because they are too cheap and provide too few raw stats. I just hate having inventory cluttered by finished 2200 unable to buy anything legit.

Battlecast SonaNov 25, 201612 votes

man so much diversity, now instead of making item 2049 item 3190 item 3117 item 3222 item 3504 item 2055

I get to make item 2049 item 3107 item 3117 item 3190 item 3222 item 2055

so much diversity.

KoKobotoNov 25, 20163 votes

Hmm maybe that's you but I build different each game based on what my team needs and what the enemy team needs and my champion. It looks like you play Janna every game so I would understand why you don't see build diversity with supports.

Battlecast SonaNov 25, 20165 votes

Not really. It's also my build with Nami, Soraka, Karma, Lulu...

And that's my problem. Those characters all unique - some scale better with AP, some have the potential to do damage, some have more/less peel than others... but at the end of the day, they all want the same items because they're the same "class" of supports.

Support itemization is based entirely on which class you're playing instead of which champ, and I hate it.

AtanchanNov 26, 20162 votes

item 3504 item 3107 item 3222 item 2301 item 3117 on Blitzcrank and Leona is truly the best build. I cannot think of a single issue or weakness it has, ever.

NuparuNov 26, 20164 votes

You can't proc Ardent Censer on your teammates without Redemption or Mikaels?

L0ve Is BlueNov 26, 20161 votes

You have fuck all tankiness when you are supposed to be a tank? Especialy on Leonna?

AtanchanNov 27, 20161 votes

whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

RatbertNov 27, 20161 votes

I could say the same to you when the point was that the support class enchanters (that just so happens to exclude tanks) had a defined optimal build and it went over your head.

AtanchanNov 27, 20161 votes

The tank part is actually irrelevant to the joke I was making.

It also goes for, albeit less extreme, Bard , Morgana , and Zilean . Although only slightly less extreme in terms of Zilean.

RatbertNov 27, 20161 votes

I'd say it doesn't go that much for bard, who has a powerful healing skill but does for morg and zil, but only because both of them are viable midlaners who lean more towards ap items.

chipndip1Nov 25, 20163 votes

On what planet is a huge ass aoe shield that's even stronger than it used to be situational?

Zen FuryNov 25, 201611 votes

I just find it irritating that on a typical first back, I have to make a choice between mobility (boots-upgraded gp item) or vision (sightstone). For tanks, it's not a big deal to get the sightstone, as you're already hard enough to kill. But for supports like Sona, the health from the sight stone doesn't help much. You're still a squishy slow moving target.

What I'd like to see is a variety of sight stones that have stats that are applicable to different types of supports/play styles/situations.

Sight Stone of Fortitude: wards+health Sight Stone of Iron: wards+armor Sight Stone of Wisdom: wards+AP Sight Stone of Valor: wards+AD Sight Stone of Swiftness: wards+MS

One possible way to go would be to reduce the cost of these stones to 350 with a corresponding small amount of stats and allow them to be combined. So for example, each base stone has some small amount of stats and contain one ward charge. When combined (for an additional 100 gold), they give you a set of stronger stats and 3 charges. Combined with a GP10 they give you even more stats and a 4th charge.

I'm not sure what the stats should be for balance, but the idea is that for a total cost of 800 gold you can now mix and match according to your champion, playstyle, and situation. You could combine Wisdom and Swiftness for an aggressive Sona. You could combine Fortitude and Iron for Braum. If the enemy ADC is hitting too hard you could double up on Iron. The cost in the end is the same, but now it allows for far more flexibility for supports AND you can do it piecemeal.

Unfortunately, this sort of "dynamic" item may not work in Riot's current item implementation. If you had to "hard-code" the items this would be 96 new items (32 possible combinations, plus 3 different gp 10 items). If you restricted it so you can only have one of each type, that would still be 60 new items. But a support main can dream. :)

KuboxNov 25, 20167 votes

Because the item is boring.

Sighstone doesn't make you stronger, your adc stronger, your peel stronger, your engage stronger, make you that much tankier. All it it does is a better job at warding than the yellow trinket you started with. And heck, since they nerfed the amount of wards it carries from 4 to 3 it's even worst as you'll still be vulnerable.

The gold gen items are all pretty cool, have satisfying uses and feel pretty fun to rush. But rushing sighstone is literally you backing with 800 and coming back with no more in-combat utility than before. And just because it's better than back in the days (believe me, I've been there) doesn't magically mean that the current situation is perfect.

ÇhåryzårdNov 25, 20167 votes

Because as far as stats go it gives you nothing but a little bit of health

I also just hate it in general because it gives this idea that supports are the ones who should be warding, so everyone is free to not do it.

"Oh the support has sightstone now so I'm gonna stop focusing on warding as much"

And then people get pissed when the entire map isn't warded without realizing the support can still only have 3 wards on the map, not including a pink,

In my opinion, every role should have an item that benefits their role but also helps as far as wards go.

Gregor GysiNov 25, 20166 votes

No, you simply forgot about the terrors back in "your days". While people nowadays delay their sightstone occasionally, it used to be very common to get a support that would pick something like full AP Nidalee - without Sightstone or support items.

VerdadeNov 25, 20162 votes

This.

VesemirNov 25, 20164 votes

Or Brand going support and ends up dealing the most dmg in the game. I seriously dont get the damage of that inferno guy...

VerdadeNov 25, 20162 votes

Vel'koz does the same. Sub-par budget, deletes people and ends up with most damage on team.

JQKAndreiNov 25, 20164 votes

I you watch pro play, supports don't even buy a 6th item so that they can have 2-3 wards.

Battlecast SonaNov 25, 20164 votes

Because upgraded yellow trinket was better, cheaper, and more user friendly.

And then they took it away.

I wouldn't mind buying SS if it didn't have to sit in my inventory, mocking me with its non-rechargeable wards while the enemy assassin sweeps my wards on CD without returning to base.

The game is very, very different than it was when SS came out, and the prevalence of ways to reveal wards (without necessarily having to return to base to do it) means that an enemy team with 2 sweepers can completely invalidate my sightstone wards, REALLY easily.

I've been playing support since Season 1, and SS was a huge boon. But it needs to be updated to reflect the state of the game - it is WAY too easy for people to remove wards for it to be any kind of fair that to get them back I have to remove myself from the map.

B00B00Nov 25, 20163 votes

Back when i used to support i used to peel, i thought it was expected but i think i was playing it wrong as none of the supports i see now peel at all, spam all abilities on one champion (usually enemy tank) then wondering why our backline is being run down by two steam trains.

Lestat S46Nov 26, 20163 votes

Ahhhhh Good ole Heart of Gold and Philo Stone

Athenes LuluNov 26, 20163 votes

You forgot about having Oracle's Elixir at a 100% uptime or else you are also trolling.

AptestNov 25, 20162 votes

I don't get why so many mid laners are adverse to playing tanks.

Are we even now?

Dasdi96Nov 25, 20169 votes

{quoted}

I don't get why so many mid laners are adverse to playing tanks.

Are we even now?

It is because playing a tank in the mid lane provides little waveclear in a lane that requires it, and it is quite difficult to cs under tower as a tank. Although there is this one korean guy who mains sejuani mid.

AptestNov 25, 20162 votes

And yet you enjoy low wave-clear "assassins" so much. On that basis I do not accept your explanation.

Quat1Nov 25, 20164 votes

name an assassin that has low wave-clear

nice tableNov 25, 20161 votes

fizz, lb, shaco, evelynn, kassadin, kha zix, rengar and akali EDIT: and of course nidalee, katarina and soon to be camille

Big LincolnNov 25, 20165 votes

leblanc, k6 and rengar do not have poor waveclear

Immortal spaxNov 25, 20162 votes

because they want to carry by dealing damage, and if you want to deal damage you needd those 800gold, even if sightstone are the most cost efficient item in the game(it, and every other support item), and then when they "roam", leavingg the carr without a good cover, they flamed the adc because he got dived by Rengar, Leona and Draven. then they go on reddit or in this forum, and ask why supports cant carry, and why rito hates supports.

Battlecast SonaNov 25, 20162 votes

I ask these questions because I've been playing for 7 years and during those 7 years I have seen supports gutted and then left on the floor to die. Riot wanted us to throw them a fucking party when they announced that they were aiming for "1 support a year".

Support mains get continually shafted both by the community and by Riot, and then people like you come in and assume it's all people who don't like/don't play support. I've been a Janna main since Cassi patch, and I'm here to tell you, SS in its current iterations is one of the least exciting, least impactful, and most annoying purchases you will ever make. And your 800g purchase is countered almost entirely by the enemy team getting level 9 and getting their free 8 second ward clear that follows them around. Wanted to buy something other than SS? Have fun getting gangbanged bottom.

The community is totally and completely content with making it the supports job to be a ward/vision bitch, and it's not okay. I'm tired of asking my Marksman to use trink ward and getting a "?" or no response while they have 2 charges. I'm tired of seeing "but you have a sightstone" as an excuse for not warding. I honestly would rather it be completely removed from the game than remain in its current state, because it's basically a "turn your brain off" signal to your team. People immediately stop warding as soon as they see this item in your inventory, and it does not provide that kind of vision control (at least, not anymore).

Immortal spaxNov 25, 20161 votes

about the first part, i already answered in the other post to you.

another points, with people "like me", you mean someone who played a shit ton of games as support and have around 200k mastery in supports(which isnt a lot, but just to let you understand how i used to play supp) in this account

about the second, you say you play since season 1? that means that you are diamond right? but every time i whatch a diamond gameplay/stream i always see 3 pinks placed in the map, that means that in high elo they do vision shit, and thats all, lol is balanced around diamond and they are doing great like this, if low elo people dont want to ward thats their fault.

also, genuine question, exactly, you support main that belong to this strange sub class of support mains, exactly what do you want? the other 4 people who play with have to worry about cs, while they have to worry about the enemy laner, while they have to worry about the enemy jungler. and your jungler have this hard job to sit difficult match up lanes and this big responsability that is his smite. and you supports? u dont want to cs neither to have some responsability like warding or peeling, but at the same time u want to 1v1 people and hard carry games... like what? if rito allows that then everyone will play support and it will easily become the most popular role. this is just a curiosity from someone who played a lot of support game but nether had this arrogance to hard carry games.

VerdadeNov 26, 20163 votes

I have no problem with supports being vision-oriented. However... All supports have been nerfed to ground since their release and everyone is somehow okay with that. Lulu Janna Soraka Sona being repeatedly nerfed and their utility removed. Sure, they're boring to play as and boring to play against, but damn. Tank supports are myth, they don't work. TahmKench Braum Taric were intended to fill "tank support" role but Kench was doing it well and that is not allowed, so just got gutted. Braum's ability to give ally AR/MR was nerfed, and he's now balancing between being tank and disruptor. Taric was viable on release, got gutted because we can't allow actual protector-like support.

Disruptor supports (what you call "tanks") such as Alistar Blitzcrank Nautilus Leona Thresh never protected anyone, they just CC and disrupt enemy champions as much as possible. You can as well call them "kill supports" because of how high their base damage and strong their CC is.

What's new is mage/poke supports, such as Velkoz Zyra . These are actually pretty good, fun to play and much more entertaining to play against. Some people just hate them because "HURR DURR ITS SUPPORT HE SHOULD BE WEAK". In fact, these champions are extremely specialized, and sacrifice everything to get power they need - they can't afford anything but more MRpen and AP just to stay relevant.

Yes, i realize Taric, Sona or Janna had 55%+ win rate for a time, and got nerfed because of that. But what about buffing others at their level instead of nerfing them? They actually felt good to play, felt like real support not just "im weaker than everyone else because reasons". Gut base damages of supports, there shouldn't be Blitz capable of soloing you at level 6 because of his huge bases. Let supports dictate flow and style of the game and gut their raw power, so they aren't able to go into solo lanes.

TyrekGoldenspearNov 25, 20162 votes

Can't tell you how many times I saved my ADC from a gank because of this thing. item 2049 . Combined with this item 3341 , it makes the vision war possible.

Best part about building it on Leona or Taric is that I can buy item 2045 which gives me a beautiful chunk of health for the low price of 800 gold. (After item 2049 is bought of course.)

VerdadeNov 25, 20164 votes

Yeah, is decent on Leona and Taric. But what about supports where is HP just waste of gold?

TyrekGoldenspearNov 25, 20161 votes

Which supports find HP a waste of gold? It means you won't die as fast.

I can only guess you're talking about mage supports.

VerdadeNov 25, 20163 votes

Janna, Vel'koz, Soraka, Morgana, Zyra Just to name few.

SSShutTheDuckUpNov 25, 20161 votes

item 2301

VerdadeNov 26, 20162 votes

2200 gold and item slot for 25 AP ...RIGHT

NuparuNov 26, 20161 votes

Item CD reductions are really good on almost every other support, especially since Locket and Redemption are both insanely powerful items.

Also Face of the Mountain/Talisman CD reduction is amazing as well.

VerdadeNov 26, 20163 votes

Stats worth of 1330 gold cluttering one item slot. It's simply not worth it, regardless of how you justify it.

item 2045 item 3092 cost 4000 gold 500 HP 50 AP 75% mana regen 10% CDR 20% item CDR spooky ghosts

item 2301 item 3116 for 5400 gold

600 HP 125 AP 100% mana regen 10% CDR passive slow from Rylais

Both have the same warding and gold-generating capabilities. Sure, cost-efficiency might be same, or even better in first case, but building 1800gold items just makes you extremely weak, as you are limited to 6 (5 with wards) items. There isn't single decent expensive support item, all of them is just 2000-2500gold trash

Riot changed supports by nerfing their base numbers (on both damage and utility) and buffing AP ratios, and then screwed them by adding support items with LAUGHABLE amounts of AP on them. Instead, we got useless health.

Mighty MorteinNov 26, 20162 votes

I would assume being ahead in lane would give you more incentive to buy a sightstone. You have more gold to spend + you have a target on your back from either the enemy mid or jungle because of the shutdown gold plus first blood tower gold.

La BarbotteNov 26, 20162 votes

sightstone should be a sumoner spell tbh

Phyuq YiuNov 26, 20162 votes

Seems that when you ward you see the enemy and when your boost ass alli sees the enemy he has to go to him and fight. Then he runs into the other guys that he didn't see. Now it's the supports fault, you only had 4 wards down.. "can you support? ward? poke?". What do I do with this frustration? Sell the sightstone! ADC is sad and wont let you use relic charges? back and sell it, get coin, always get coin if you dont know this adc!

Dominick DestineNov 26, 20162 votes

I remember I once got called a "troll" for building double philo, boots and 10 green wards.

The person that (continually) called me a troll was later reported by everyone in the game.... modern support players do not understand harshness.