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Sion actually needs a fucking nerf

Tychusfindlay918··32 votes·6,575 views

http://www.op.gg/champion/sion/statistics/top

still 55% win rate, still 7+% pick rate

HAS NO MATCHUPS WHERE HE GOES BELOW 50% WIN RATE. Yes, you heard that right, sion's absolute worst matchup statistically is singed, which he has a 50% win rate against...

The 8.3 bugfixes were huge buffs to sion, and while they were needed because all bugs ought to be fixed by virtue of being unintended side effects, it's time to tone down sion's power numerically.

Let's take another site

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/sion/diamond

lol he's actually even more broken according to this site.

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sion/Top/

Still an indomitable beast according to this one.

84 Comments

Ahristocats14 votes

gut E damage buff Q damage

Escheton7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-18T05:48:21.905+0000)

gut E damage buff Q damage

^THIS

I hate having to go Sorcery poke E early game because Runes Reforged destroyed his full AD runepage/Full sustain-Tank Mastery page set-up he had before that allowed him to spec Q.

Famix2 votes

To me, as someone who's play Sion quite a lot, I agree. They should focus him on his AD damage, and make him viable without that stupid fucking E. I didn't choose Sion to play volleyball, I chose him so that I could feed and still get kills. Sion [zombie-nunu-bummed]

Pandemic Punch2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-18T05:48:21.905+0000)

gut E damage buff Q damage

This is a pretty good idea

Colton14713 votes

Sion item 3147 item 3142 item 3814

Sõna2 votes

Khazix item 3147

flibitydoo13 votes

The actual problem is tied to his E being a cheap spell that's actually pretty easy to hit given it's range/projectile speed. Tied together with comet, scorch and manaflow giving him a consistent wave of harass.

Spoofghoul8 votes

Pretty much this can confirm this as a Sion main

Illâoi Evê Siôn8 votes

I play Sion a lot and I wouldn't mind seeing some E mana cost nerfs.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

And/or cd increase? I end up going cdr on him a lot.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Remember when his E on release was 25 mana at all ranks?

MadeinAmerica182 votes

Not to mention that when he launches a minion it does 200 damage even into merc treads, which because for some fucking dumb reason you have to build them into an ad champion because otherwise the 50% slow on his e will literally leave you crawling, and allow him to use his "balanced and well thought through kit" to "out-skill" anyone who isn't a pure tank that also does inane amounts of damage. because "Hey, lets make people who take the most damage do the most damage as well". literally be forced to leave lane because he has more range than Cait to work with if you are in lane with him. Almost like his e shouldn't reduce armor, slow, do insane amounts of damage, and be one of the easiest to hit not point and click abliities in the game

ÈvilMorty9 votes

Is sion strong right now? yes he is. However, does he have counterplay? absofuckinglutely. (800k points on sion i know what im talking about)

  1. Sion is strong because of high base tank stats (like all tanks), comet scorch mana flow band giving him very reliable harass on his E which is pretty easy to land. The only real people i have trouble facing is darius (walking up to farm and he fucks you). However taking comet means your not as tanky early on and maxing e means you are constantly pushing waves which makes you really open to gank.

  2. However that being said the rest of his abilities you can see coming from a mile away and are easy to avoid/counter. His ult you get noise so you know hes coming, the first 1-2 seconds he uses it he has a slow wind up which gives you even more time to dodge it, hard as fuck to turn and with all the mobility in this game, landing it on a mobile champ makes me want to jump off a bridge.

  3. His q does a bunch of damage if maxed first but, with the last statement, landing this with cc to cancel it and mobility to dodge it is infuriating, why do you think people max e instead of q? Because its reliable. On a side note sion really low mana pool doesnt exactly help either especially his w cost 65 mana on a 300 ish base pool.

  4. As a sion player, after i poke out my laner picking up one maybe 2 kills i still have to rely on my team to bring the pain since out of lane all sion is good for is a cc no mobility kitable as fuck meat shield and unlike some one like Orrn, he cant dash away and his shield %hp damage has counterplay by popping the shield.

  5. To be fully effective, sion has to properly rotate his spells and in a team fight which (again) the amount of cc and or mobility a team comp can have, doing that in a team fight can go from being some what hard to dam near impossible. You ever try to get a hold of someone like vayne or trist as sion in a teamfight? Jokes on you cuz you fucking cant and if you do some how manage to do, congrats you outplayed the broken adcs and they will cry about it. waaaaaaa i have a support on a leash, self peel and do 600-800 per auto but i got hit by sions ult at range which gave time for his team to kill me waaaaaa riot nerf

tl:dr sion is strong theres no arguing that but has strong counterplay which is more then what half the champions can say in this game.

SociaI Justice4 votes

sions counter play is a good riven or gangplank, that's about it buddy.

Northmund5 votes

Agree on GP. With comet right now riven can be poked out of lane, but gp can sustain for eternity in lane and win late game.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

The only issue is that E makes Q braindead to hit. And E is already braindead to hit.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

As a sion player, after i poke out my laner picking up one maybe 2 kills i still have to rely on my team to bring the pain since out of lane all sion is good for is a cc no mobility kitable as fuck meat shield and unlike some one like Orrn, he cant dash away and his shield %hp damage has counterplay by popping the shield.

ofc... he's a tank.

sion havee a good wr with all keystone decent on him not onle comet

Rexxiee6 votes

He has been broken for a while.

Jinx Hunter5 votes

Sion has the most counter play out of any other champion in this fucking game, get the fuck good and don't stand in his Q. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-18T08:46:05.980+0000)

Sion has the most counter play out of any other champion in this fucking game, get the fuck good and don't stand in his Q. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Statistics > your stupid whining

Spoofghoul4 votes

Historicallyhis E is where his problems where in previous seasons as well

He is otherwise fair to play against i mean if you get hit by his fully charged Q then it's 100% your fault same for his W and R

Pre runes reforged he was nowhere near OP

It's just that he can throw E's your way until you start crying in a corner now the E itself isn't neccesarily overpowered or anything but add comet and scorch and there you go You can still dodge them tho which is something a lot of people seem to have issues with not sure why players think they should be able to facetank everything and get away with it

But there is a downside to taking comet & scorch it makes you more vulnerable as well since you wont have the defensive options in the resolve tree

However there is another side to this as well Sion has never had a weak early game but comet manaflow band and scorch can make it oppressive And Sion gets hard to deal with in the midgame if, and only if, he gets ahead early which suddenly got easy with comet etc he also doesn't really suffer from not going the defensive route later on because games are too short for that anyway

If games where not such a snowball fest this would honestly not be as much of an issue as it is now

TheProfezzor3 votes

I can't play him supp for some reason. Feel like I do not damage.

AmazoX3 votes

His kit is the most fair in the game, I don't get how his OP in anyway? His numbers are fair & so are the abilities.

Tychusfindlay9185 votes

{quoted}

His kit is the most fair in the game, I don't get how his OP in anyway? His numbers are fair & so are the abilities.

his kit is fair, his numbers aren't with the current rune system.

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

his kit is fair, his numbers aren't with the current rune system.

Oh okay.

Northmund3 votes

Sion is easy to counter:

  1. His Q charge can be interrupted
  2. W can be destroyed so it does not deal damage
  3. E is tricky you need to watch how he stands towards minions.

And it is not champion who is broken, those are runes who make him strong. Games last short and people take comet+mana flowband, max. E and farm+poke all day long. There are flows to that strategy: A. Comet will be useless out of lane and won't scale as he goes tank not damage. B. Wave will be constantly pushed and Sion has no escape tools. C. That poke is easily countered by item 1054 and Second Wind (if you struggle to dodge or desperate for that sustain in lane).

I suggest you to try non comet+manna flow and then comet/manna flow you will feel the difference

Tychusfindlay9183 votes

{quoted}

Sion is easy to counter:

  1. His Q charge can be interrupted
  2. W can be destroyed so it does not deal damage
  3. E is tricky you need to watch how he stands towards minions.

And it is not champion who is broken, those are runes who make him strong. Games last short and people take comet+mana flowband, max. E and farm+poke all day long. There are flows to that strategy: A. Comet will be useless out of lane and won't scale as he goes tank not damage. B. Wave will be constantly pushed and Sion has no escape tools. C. That poke is easily countered by item 1054 and Second Wind (if you struggle to dodge or desperate for that sustain in lane).

I suggest you to try non comet+manna flow and then comet/manna flow you will feel the difference

Darius has a ton of counterplay too and that didn't stop him from being nerfed back in season 5.

Just because you have a lot of counterplay doesn't mean you should be allowed to be broken.

Northmund1 votes

That moment problem was Darius. It was Darius, not masteries making him strong. He got nerfed. Sion on the other hand was meh before runes update, people barely picked him.

Tychusfindlay9183 votes

{quoted}

That moment problem was Darius. It was Darius, not masteries making him strong. He got nerfed. Sion on the other hand was meh before runes update, people barely picked him.

There was another time where darius got nerfed because he could abuse courage very well.

Point still stands, sion is statistically, objectively overpowered.

The statistics do not lie, he needs a numerical nerf. I raised no issues about his kit so that you brought up his mechanics and counterplay is meaningless, he needsa number nerf somewhere.

Monkey Strangler1 votes

{quoted}

There was another time where darius got nerfed because he could abuse courage very well.

Point still stands, sion is statistically, objectively overpowered.

The statistics do not lie, he needs a numerical nerf. I raised no issues about his kit so that you brought up his mechanics and counterplay is meaningless, he needsa number nerf somewhere.

The statistics imply that a bunch of die hard Sion mains pumped his winrate up way higher than it really would be were he someone appealing like Yasuo. Sion doesn't have a 1k true damage ult or a massive AD steroid or a spammable heal that increases the more targets he hits with the outer edge, or 2 big ass slows, or a pull. You get hit by Q, you're fault. You get hit by max range R, very likely your fault. You get hit by E, learn to dodge better (at least that's what people used to say about Illaoi dealing too much damage). W too stronk? Pop the shield.

The increase in playrate is just your usual bandwagoning that'll be over in a couple weeks and then it'll be back to "nerf Irelia pls".

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zookeeper Sion,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=00110000000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-20T09:49:37.194+0000)

The statistics imply that a bunch of die hard Sion mains pumped his winrate up way higher than it really would be were he someone appealing like Yasuo. Sion doesn't have a 1k true damage ult or a massive AD steroid or a spammable heal that increases the more targets he hits with the outer edge, or 2 big ass slows, or a pull. You get hit by Q, you're fault. You get hit by max range R, very likely your fault. You get hit by E, learn to dodge better (at least that's what people used to say about Illaoi dealing too much damage). W too stronk? Pop the shield.

The increase in playrate is just your usual bandwagoning that'll be over in a couple weeks and then it'll be back to "nerf Irelia pls".

Nope.

http://www.op.gg/champion/sion/statistics/top

Play rate still climbing; he's now at 8.56% up from 4.5% and yet his win rate is still 55+%

Monkey Strangler1 votes

Let me rephrase, Sion mains pumped the winrate up, people saw his winrate, figured "oh hey, Sion opop", then they play him, they do well because people are way too retarded to dodge his Q and R (I mean they legit flash/dash in a straight line to "dodge" the R or they walk out of the 1s charge and walk right back into the 2s charge which deals more dmg and knocks up for longer), which is exactly why Sion mains manage to do so well aside from cheesing people and learning how to drift to hit the harder ults. He was in the top 5 winrates for top and support for pretty much over half of last season because of mains pumping him up there, nothing has changed aside from comet and manaflow coming into play, other than Riot fixing his E which they broke with the preseason patch and his Q which they broke with the season 8 patch, and he even got a pretty hefty "nerf" to his E with the fixes since you're currently unable to use any jungle creeps to damage or slow a champion.

okamiyasha951 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zookeeper Sion,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0011000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-21T03:06:08.220+0000)

Let me rephrase, Sion mains pumped the winrate up, people saw his winrate, figured "oh hey, Sion opop", then they play him, they do well because people are way too retarded to dodge his Q and R (I mean they legit flash/dash in a straight line to "dodge" the R or they walk out of the 1s charge and walk right back into the 2s charge which deals more dmg and knocks up for longer), which is exactly why Sion mains manage to do so well aside from cheesing people and learning how to drift to hit the harder ults. He was in the top 5 winrates for top and support for pretty much over half of last season because of mains pumping him up there, nothing has changed aside from comet and manaflow coming into play, other than Riot fixing his E which they broke with the preseason patch and his Q which they broke with the season 8 patch, and he even got a pretty hefty "nerf" to his E with the fixes since you're currently unable to use any jungle creeps to damage or slow a champion.

Or maybe dodging his q isn't as easy as people try to make it seem. Even without you slowing them 150%, it doesn't take long to charge up a q enough to hit them and yes it does do a considerable amount of damage.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=001100000001,timestamp=2018-02-18T19:58:14.118+0000)

Darius got nerfed because of whiny little cry babies that got dunked by him because they don't know how to play. So get gud my bruh and stop being a little excuse maker and whiner and looking for reason other then you on why you are bad. [sg-ahri-2]

haHAA I post on a level 11 account, probably silver 5 btw, get gud

Jinx Hunter1 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=00110000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-18T20:25:22.605+0000)

I don't see you disproving me. [sg-lulu]

There's nothing to disprove in your vapid posting.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0011000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-18T21:18:14.913+0000)

"Your facts are stupid" is basically what you are saying. You are basically calling facts stupid because you don't agree with them and then because you cant disprove them you try personal attacks on the one that presents the facts.

You are not going to win buddy, just give up. You already lost the debate you cant out argue facts and you know it. accept your loss and avoid further admonishment. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

"you try personal attacks"

Funny considering your recent posting history in this thread.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=001100000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-19T00:37:08.410+0000)

I didn't cast the first stone. Everyone gets civility until they take a shot at me personally, then they get the same in kind. Don't like it? Don't respond. [zombie-brand-clap]

"I didn't cast the first stone"

"get the fuck good (followed by jinx emote)"

LUL

NemeBro2 votes

Yeah he's really strong right now, and has been on the rise for a while.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

Yeah not sure why more people haven't been complaining about him. Could definitely use some nerfs.

Pumping Iron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXwe6WP1,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-18T05:50:25.256+0000)

Yeah not sure why more people haven't been complaining about him. Could definitely use some nerfs.

don't talk about nerfs

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

oh ok

Famix1 votes

They just need to nerf his E damage and raise his Q damage. The problem is that his E does a shit ton of dmg, so getting comet and scorch is just better than going tank or AD runes. They need to fix sion, not murder him.

AR URF2 votes

Since sion is a tank I'm waiting for this thread to get down-voted to oblivion.

Ryrynounet2 votes

Well, sion has a LOT of room for counterplay. you can easily play around everything in his kit

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