The pre-season has absolutely no changes that make immobile casters' lives easier

Yenn··47 votes·2,242 views

The only runes useful to immobile casters are 'lol more damage if you land your skill shots.' These champions are already extremely weak at high ratings, because their damage is too unreliable, which is why we see more reliable champions like Syndra, Annie, and Malzahar dominating mid lane.

Meanwhile, they're adding tons of mobility, making it both easier for mobile champions to jump on immobile casters, and harder to land skill shots because the increased mobility gives opponents a larger window to react and dodge.

What the fuck, Riot?

42 Comments

SpecterVonBaren23 votes

Aren't Syndra, Annie, and Malzahar immobile casters?

Rootlo7 votes

{quoted}

Aren't Syndra, Annie, and Malzahar immobile casters?

No, cause you take flash and protobelt on annie and you are now mobile. And malz + syndra fly so i dont know what kind of rock youve been living under.

CrackTrooper2 votes

wtf are you even talking about....honestly your telling me you think that malz syndra and annie are mobile casters.....no they arnt ...im not even goint to bother reading anything else you posted...i think you made my brain go numb from dumb

ExhibitD2 votes

The joke . . . . . Your head...

ModAcademy Kayn14 votes

I could be mistaken, but I don't think making Immobile Caster's jobs easier was the point of preseason.

Yenn4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NR0bwkZ2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-11-08T06:39:01.467+0000)

I could be mistaken, but I don't think making Immobile Caster's jobs easier was the point of preseason.

The pre-season is making it even harder for them to function, because everyone is getting loaded with mobility and more burst, and there's no compensation to bring them back up to par (while they're already sub-par in the current game).

{quoted}

Aren't Syndra, Annie, and Malzahar immobile casters?

They're outliers because their damage is reliable and they have very fast and more or less unavoidable hard CC that lets them deal with mobile champions. Normally immobile casters (i.e. Lux, Ziggs, Xerath) have to rely on skill shots to do damage and get bodied by high mobility.

Red Wreckage7 votes

with ability ranges probably double than that of longest gap closers....yea I'm sure all the lux ziggs xeraths veigars are dying left and right as soon as they leave their tower range.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

I can reassure you that xerath with the changes is in a weird spot. Laning against zed is a pure cancer, and the same should be the same with yasuo. Yes you can get stasis earlier. But stasis most of the times delays the death. Even if you have your team around you might end up dead. And also i can reassure you that have to go into aa range. All of them have to go at one point to cs, xerath, ziggs and lux to proc their passives. So yeah. Lastly with great range, comes great unreliability.

ModAcademy Kayn7 votes

(while they're already sub-par in the current game).

That's an extremely big assumption without proof.

Noblewind9 votes

Immobile mages: ziggs, xerath, brand, anivia, Veigar, swain, velkoz etc.

ALL with solid win rates from the last 30 days in diamond Elo pre-new runes, most in the top 50! These champions are fine.

All season long we're complaining about ADCs running rampant and now juggernauts will have more health, assassins more burst and mobility, and we're whining already huh? Come on man...

Velzard of Koz2 votes

All season long we're complaining about ADCs running rampant and now juggernauts will have more health, assassins more burst and mobility, and we're whining already huh?

I mean, he's not whining about Juggernauts or Assasin, so... What's the point of that staement?

Noblewind2 votes

You're right. I added some examples in an attempt to show how short-sited their Day 1 complaint was

Velzard of Koz2 votes

It's not that much Day 1 If one had chance to try it out on PBE

Noblewind2 votes

And? Doesn't change what I'm saying

Ventra1172 votes

You do realize riot wants feedback? Take this L

Velzard of Koz1 votes

It does completely. He thinks the pre-season makes it harder for Immobile Champions, he shares his feedback that is required to improve the system and he might have longer time experiencing it as he could've seen it on PBE.

I don't even get what your point is. It seems that you are actually trying to convey idea of "Now it's our time to be broken so shut up about your feedback" as If it wasn't incredibly dumb point of view. One by one:

ALL with solid win rates from the last 30 days in diamond Elo pre-new runes, most in the top 50! These champions are fine.

You literally say "pre-new runes" and then go "These champions are fine". Old runes and masteries are gone, good morning. Them being fine with old runes and masteries doesn't mean they are fine with new ones. It doesn't mean they are bad either, but he can share what his point of view is - that this new system will make it harder for them. Your point here is only valid as "They were doing fine so far so who cares If they won't for a while", which is just dumb - that's not how you wanna balance things.

All season long we're complaining about ADCs running rampant and now juggernauts will have more health, assassins more burst and mobility, and we're whining already huh? Come on man...

Yet again, your entire point is >> So far ADC were strong, now Juggernauts and Assasins may be strong again instead and you are complaining? << This is so incredibly dumb and irrelevant I can't understand you got yourself to 6 upvotes and take this seriously - aren't you trolling?

He complains about Immobile Mages having weaker options compared to Assasins. If changes were made to compensate and make Immobile Mages have better optons in Sorcery, this would in no way affect Juggernauts or Assasins so I don't even understand why you brought it up. Juggernauts may still have more health and Assasins may still have burst and mobility even If Immobile Mages have better options, but you act as If it was mutually exclusive and buffing Runes for IM would hurt Assasins and Juggernauts. And what ADC being strong so far have to do with it is even more beyond me.

You're right. I added some examples in an attempt to show how short-sited their Day 1 complaint was

No you didn't. You just answered to "Can we have better options for Immobile Mages" with "But Juggernauts and Assasins are finally strong, stop complaining" as If it was somehow connected and then you called his feedback "short-sited Day 1 complaint", while he might not even have this from "Day 1", but from ongoing expreince from PBE. And it certainly isn't as short-sighted as thinking Juggernauts will become weaker If options for Immobile Mages won't suck.

Basically you don't want Runes to be fair, you want Immobile Mages and ADCs to suck while your mains would shine. That's just dumb.

Noblewind1 votes

I'm sorry you have taken my comments so literally. First off I initially disagreed with the overall point because I don't think immobile mages are left in the dust with these new runes. Sure I could have said that. Fine. Second, with that in mind and while reading further into their post, I also did not agree with how it was written, hence why I mentioned it to be short sighted. It clearly says something along the lines of "these mages are already a problem (atleast that is how I took it), and now they're worse". So I took the opportunity to say the first part of that is just simply not true, basically voiding their argument pending better info because the initial assumption is plain not correct. That's where the upvotes came in, guarenteed.

Lastly there's a lot more going on than a simple "mages suck now, because of a few nice looking runes to mobile champs that can dive them". That's literally the argument of OP, a nit-pick post without taking into account any form of a larger picture. So I start talking about other champs, briefly trying to bring out atleast a few more variables to the equation, creating potential discussion. What's the problem with that again? You've only provided commentary on my choices of words, you haven't even mentioned gameplay. I hate having to make these explanation posts. I was also nowhere near trolling here....hope thst was a joke. Thanks, bye

MetalGearTeemo7 votes

We're already reaching the natural endgame of mobility creep.

mechanics that grant MORE uses of flash. Such as Zoe, and the channeled flash rune.

Soon there will be a rune for wall parkour, and a champion who refreshes their flash summoner every 3 autos they land on a target.

SEKAI3 votes

{quoted}

Soon there will be a rune for wall parkour, and a champion who refreshes their flash summoner every 3 autos they land on a target.

It's called playing Talon (wall parkour) and Tristana (rocket jump refreshes after both kill and detonating a maxed E bomb, which the latter requires 4 AA).

Penns6 votes

Taliyah Syndra Malzahar [sg-ezreal]

Sewer Side4 votes

K

CM Calgar4 votes

yes the immobile mage brings massive area of effect damage, that can't kill a tank, so they are expected to move like zed with ghostblade, in order to hit the back line. We are the Gods of the rift with our positioning.

Prestige Eve4 votes

Pre-Season didn't do jack shit to Twitch either, so that should tell you how much they actually focused on things outside of the rune changes. They left champs in a broken state for months just because they wanted to see how they'd work with the new rune champs, despite PBE changes showing it making them worse...and now we're going to have to deal with the rune changes filled with the same busted champs. I really don't understand Riot's logic on these kinds of things. Wouldn't it have been smarter to fix twitch when he was a problem so we'd be able to see a fresh look at him with the rune changes, instead of risking them making him even stronger or showing weird results due to how busted he is right now?

Poop Jelly1 votes

I kinda disagree. Faced a few twitch and he gets clapped by Lucian/Caitlyn from what I'm seeing. Of course there's also support factor but I feel like he's having a relatively weaker laning phase in comparison to others.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Because a lot of power got shifted, and, long story short: They're in about the exact same position.

No, I'm serious. Overall, all of the classes are effectively unshifted. Mages lost on armor? Assassins lost on lethality. Marksmen gained on damage? Tanks gained twenty base armor.

Just because it seems like one class gained something/lost something, it doesn't mean anything, as the classes they're against also lost something or gained something.

KoKoboto2 votes

They also got nothing for DPS mages which really feelsbadman.

I'd say that Absolute Focus and Commencing Stop-Watch are good things for immobile mages tho.

Linna Excel2 votes

What about that rune that boosts your move speed and converts bonus movespeed into adaptive damage?

MangelinaJolie2 votes

{quoted}

The only runes useful to immobile casters are &#039;lol more damage if you land your skill shots.&#039; These champions are already extremely weak at high ratings, because their damage is too unreliable, which is why we see more reliable champions like Syndra, Annie, and Malzahar dominating mid lane.

Meanwhile, they&#039;re adding tons of mobility, making it both easier for mobile champions to jump on immobile casters, and harder to land skill shots because the increased mobility gives opponents a larger window to react and dodge.

What the fuck, Riot?

Immobile casters

Extremely weak

Syndra, Annie and Malzahar dominating midlane

???

Yenn2 votes

Everyone in this thread is failing to understand the problem, which is likely because they're not playing against good players.

Good (i.e. Diamond) players have very fast reaction times, and as you play against better players, skill shots (which immobile casters usually rely upon) become much harder to land and very unreliable. The game added a lot of extra and more accessible mobility to already mobile champions, making it easier to avoid skill shots.

Skill shots don't really require skill to land after a certain point. They require your opponent to not be paying attention or react slowly. Once your MS is high enough, most skill shots can be dodged no matter where you aim them.

It's now easier for other champions to jump on them and avoid their damage, while there's nothing to help them survive.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Diamond isn't "good". Diamond is "phenomenal". Diamond is like the top 5% of the entire world.

If the top 5% of the world is having an issue and the bottom 95% doesn't see it as much of an issue, of course the majority of people on a forum aren't going to care or understand.

Ventra1171 votes

Diamond is much higher than top 5%. My p2 account is top 3%

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Yes, but we have a giant bronze and silver pool in NA. I don't know if it's the same over in South Korea or China. I'm guessing when you look at all the regions together Diamond+ is probably closer to 5%.

Phosphophylite1 votes

Yea no, diamond is the top 1.5 to 2% region.

Edit: I just checked op.gg and it turns out brazil has the highest percentage of players in diamond, namely up until the 2.49th percentile.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Skill shots don't really require skill to land after a certain point. They require your opponent to not be paying attention or react slowly. Once your MS is high enough, most skill shots can be dodged no matter where you aim them.

That is why we shouldn't rely solely on aim to land them. If you use prediction as well, you can catch your opponent at opportune times regardless of their reaction skills.

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

That is why we shouldn't rely solely on aim to land them. If you use prediction as well, you can catch your opponent at opportune times regardless of their reaction skills.

No, you really can't, which is what you're failing to understand.

When you lead a target moving at 420+ ms from long/max range, they have a significant window of time to change their direction and avoid it.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Even when you do things like use vision control to prevent them from seeing/reacting to the tells for your casting? Like hiding in brush, or making a pick, etc.

DU Baymax2 votes

the champions you listed as being reliable picks are literally the type of champion that you just claimed isn't strong anymore*[zombie-brand-clap]*

Pierce The Veal1 votes

Well how the fuck are we supposed to make immobile casters stronger? They already have extremely strong damage/cc as it is BECAUSE they are immobile. I'm saying this as someone who used to play Syndra/AP Kog.

Fedoran1 votes

I think the runes were actually very beneficial to immobile casters. Ultimate Hat and Ravenous Hunter are real treats for most mages, and also there are plenty of runes that give the immobile mages the mobility they need.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Annie IS an immobile caster. Lol...what? So is Syndra. So is Malzahar. None of them are mobile.

Angrychickén1 votes

We have the stopwatch rune.

I am just going to take that thing into every assassin match up.

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