Why is Fizz able to break tethers with his "troll pole" but Vladimir can't?

Cloud273··33 votes·2,079 views

I think it's fair to compare these abilities because they both grant untargetability. I made a thread about this in the bugs section, and someone told me that tether's can't be broken. If Vladimir goes into his pool while he has something like a Karma tether on him, she'll still get the root/stun/whatever off. But Fizz can simply use his troll pole and dodge it. On a different note, why is the cooldown on Fizz's untarget ability so much shorter than Vladimir's? At max cdr it's like 4.5 seconds. I don't know what the cooldown for Vladimir's pool would be at max cdr, but I'm pretty sure it's more 4.5 seconds, because the cooldown at max rank is 16 seconds, and with 50% cdr that would be 8 seconds (I know you can't get 50% cdr, but I can't do the math in my head, and I know the cooldown is longer than 8 seconds because you can't have 50% cdr).

69 Comments

Akali is SO HOT31 votes

Fizz only breaks tethers if he goes out of range. Same as Vlad

Darkdemon65317 votes

Fizz cannot break a tether by simply using his E. He, along with everyone else, must move far enough away to break the tether.

Radiant Wukong7 votes

Compares a fucking tank to an assassin and gets upvoted. This boards community is truly LoL.

And A Real Hiero17 votes

Vlad a tank? KEK

ReZisT Lust5 votes

sustain tank

And A Real Hiero16 votes

By that logic every adc is a sustain tank.

Aaravos3 votes

If they have Death,s Dance and Phantom they are.

MohawkBird6 votes

[deleted]

ReZisT Lust1 votes

item 3001 item 3065 item 3047 was pretty much what made me almost unkillable besides tristana but i could scare her with a e q onto her and shed jump away scared thinking i was stronger than i was lol id've definitely had lost in a 1v1 cause no armor

Jet Sett1 votes

Pretty sure everyone is using Rito's new class logic.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

Jet Sett2 votes

My only problem with it is the air of elitism its created between those whose use normal terms and those who use League's new terms.

Melledoneus2 votes

We call that, good sir, a battle mage.

Tanks have CC.

Solidarius1 votes

yes they are at least late game :P

Shrek Luigi1 votes

Which ADC builds item 3143item 3065 tho?

Vlad is burly as hell, and he already gets HP from his core AP stuff--item 3151item 3152item 3116--on top of outsustaining most champs up until lategame so the comparison is not apt.

RogueWill2 votes

he is a battle mage. If anything he woudl be a sustain mage, kinda like Cass or swain.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

ReZisT Lust1 votes

ok, then drain tank I don't know much terminology since I never see it used or anything ty for telling me. What i had meant is staying alive by gaining hp with their kit hence the sustain ad tank cause decides to build tank

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Summoner 1: *hovers Jax*

Summoner 2: Dude don't pick Jax top we need a tank

Summoner 1: *locks Vladimir *

Summoner 2: Thanks man!

Cloud2733 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NN87JsNg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-06-10T02:09:32.437+0000)

Compares a fucking tank to an assassin and gets upvoted. This boards community is truly LoL.

I just searched tanks in the client. Vladimir isn't even there. Riot classifies him as a mage. After the most recent change to him it pretty much killed tank Vladimir. They want him to build like a mage, which is what I'm pretty sure he was designed to be in the first place. Even as a sustain tank, he still has plenty of counters, like morellonomicon, executioner's calling, and ignite.

Slythion4 votes

just because they are similar abilities doesn't mean they should have similar cooldowns. They are similar abilities on 2 unique champions that use such an ability for 2 different situations

Cloud2732 votes

{quoted}

just because they are similar abilities doesn't mean they should have similar cooldowns. They are similar abilities on 2 unique champions that use such an ability for 2 different situations

They aren't used for "different situations". They do literally the exact same thing. They use the ability either to engage or to disengage/escape. And I forgot to mention Fizz can also jump over walls with his ability, which for some reason Vladimir can't do. There are so many things Fizz is able to do with his untarget ability that other champs (with untarget) just can't do.

Slythion5 votes

yes but look at the actual champions:

fizz needs to be within auto range in order to do his combo on an enemy. He needs to put himself in harm's way in order to perform his duty, and so the situation in which he'll need an escape to compensate will be much more common than someone like Vlad who is a ranged sustain mage that really only uses his Pool as a last resort

Psyrix3 votes

Fizz can't break a tether by going invulnerable, it's only if he's able to get out of range that the tether'll break

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

because he doesn't?

Radiant Wukong2 votes

Don't forget Elise and Xayah.

They all break the tether because they move out of range, their untargetability has mobility to it that moves them out of tether range, this is not the case with Vlad

It should also be noted that Vlad is a tank.

Cloud2732 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NN87JsNg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-10T01:32:48.479+0000)

Don't forget Elise and Xayah.

They all break the tether because they move out of range, their untargetability has mobility to it that moves them out of tether range, this is not the case with Vlad

It should also be noted that Vlad is a tank.

Ok, then I have another question for you. Why is Vladimir the only champ with an "untarget" ability that doesn't have enough mobility to escape tethers?

Slythion1 votes

not the only one without a large amount of mobility tied to their untargetable ability: Xayah ult

Radiant Wukong2 votes

Again, HE'S A FUCKING TANK WITH RIDICULOUS SUSTAIN!

Dont compare tanks to assassins.

And A Real Hiero5 votes

Tanks have CC and defensive steroids, vlad has none of these.

Radiant Wukong2 votes

He has more than Illaoi and Olaf.

statelesskiller2 votes

he has 1 slow that can be either easily dodge by just walking out of range as vlad is slow as fuck OOOORRRRRR just walking behind something else with a healthbar. and his pool is like . . . a 20% slow? thats costs 20% of vlads current health . . . and has a low area of effect

Steelflame7 votes

A more accurate statement is he is a battlemage, AKA an AP juggernaut.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

Exactly, which are tanks.

Steelflame3 votes

No. Juggernauts are high damage and health brawlers, generally with sustain that is based on max health, who very rarely have any mobility at all.

A core part of a tank is bringing CC either for the purpose of Initiation or peeling. Tanks are not (supposed to be, anyway) damage threats. Maokai, Poppy, Sejuani, Zac, Taric, Amumu, and a few more are all examples of tanks. Tanks can often come with mobility, and some have some of the highest mobility in the game (Zac).

Vlad, Darius, Illaoi, Swain, Trundle, Volibear, Mundo, and a few others have some core aspects that make them not be a tank. Warwick is the most edge case of being a juggernaut based fighter, as he does have a high range dash (his ult), and hard CC with move speed. In trade, most of his power depends on either himself (sustain kicks in when below half hp) or the enemy (Move speed and attack speed given to warwick) to be below half hp.

  1. None of them have a dash other than Illaoi, and her dash is a targetted 400 ranged auto attack.
  2. If they have CC, they don't have anything more powerful than a speed up. Often all they have for CC is a slow.
  3. All of them are sustained heavy damage based threats generally.
  4. They all have aspects of their kit that either reward or enable being in the middle of the enemy team for sustained periods of time.
Radiant Wukong1 votes

I agree with you fully, it's still a tank though. They're still the frontline for their team. I categorize Vlad with Darius, Illaoi, Amumu, Sejuani, Wukong, Jarvan, Morgana in that they're the most useful when in the center of 5 enemy champs dealing AoE damage. I don't care how specific you want to be with their roles (divers, battlemages, vanguard, wardens)... they're all just tanks to me.

Even in RPGs like World of Warcraft, Maple Story your tanks are still an important part of dealing consistent DPS damage while drawing enemy/mob aggro. Their base job is tank regardless of what their upgraded/subclass (warrior, cleric, vanguard, fighter etc). Same concept applies in League, DotA, Paragon and Smite.

Rewt2 votes

Because He is the only one who can channel another spell during it.

Shuyin1782 votes

Every champion that gains untargetable state keeps the tether, that includes Fizz, Vlad, Xayah, Elise and Lissandra.

FeelsCampedMan2 votes

But it doesn't break tethers unless you go out of range

Friendly Ram2 votes

he doesn't? at least fiddles still works on him.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

You want to know what's some real BS? Shaco's Hallucinate doesn't break tethers... despite him not existing in the game for .5s~ Such BS.

Skins Project1 votes

I mean...

Karma connects to the spiritual realm sooooo...

Sorta Logic? :D

Fargo792 votes

{quoted}

You want to know what's some real BS? Shaco's Hallucinate doesn't break tethers... despite him not existing in the game for .5s~ Such BS.

but if u time it right he doesnt take any damage.. i have seen it done to me when i had him in a morg ulti.. no stun or damage cause he timed his ulti just right.. he gets the same effect with others like Kathus ulti..

More from Gameplay

More by Cloud273