@riot: is there anything on the garen rework already?

Critmaster Garen·Jun 12, 2017·6 votes·1,070 views

a couple of weeks ago, you mentioned that you wanted to get some work done on him this season. i guess its going to be something on the scale of shyvana/aatrox mini reworks.

did you already decide on a patch youre aiming at? he really desperately needs something done. after the champions that will get a full VGU he should probably be pretty high on the priority list.

tbh. most juggernauts are doing really badly after the tank update right now, but most of them are probably fine with some individual buffs, or possibly item buffs.

22 Comments

Big LincolnJun 12, 20172 votes

looks like more juggs than just garen need to get buffed, but they've been very silent on him ever since they announced it

it was just a change to his W, right? or is it actually bigger in scope than that?

Gizm0Jun 12, 20171 votes

I hope not lol, I just did a video going into great depths on how to play the champ. I had a 70% win rate on Garen over 20 games on my smurf, so I wouldn't say he's in a bad spot.

YT: GizmoLoL

Plague InfestedJun 12, 20171 votes

imagine: garen Q: no longer breaks free of slows, no longer gives MS. retains silence, retains, damage. new: garen jumps in a direction (skillshot), lunging his sword into the first enemy hit, silencing them for same duration and applying same damage. or maybe it doesnt silence them, maybe it puts a sword in their knee and roots them for 2 seconds, same result. his E gets to do damage, only diff is they can trade back

omg garen isnt just kited for days anymore :]

Leaf on BushJun 12, 20173 votes

"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then i took a Garen to the knee."

Plague InfestedJun 12, 20171 votes

LOL i love it

Critmaster GarenJun 12, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I hope not lol, I just did a video going into great depths on how to play the champ. I had a 70% win rate on Garen over 20 games on my smurf, so I wouldn't say he's in a bad spot.

YT: GizmoLoL

youre a gold 5 rated player who played him... on a smurph? like where? silver? bronze?

you played in trash divisions while already being better at the game than your peers. how is that any indication that hes anywhere near to fine?

there hasnt been a single player this season who made it past d3 with him. he declined in winrate over the entire season and absolutely crashed with the tank update. looking at the statistics, hes not even a decent champion in silver anymore.

he desperately needs changes.

im not asking for a massive rework that changes his entire kit. but he does need a bit more depth to his gameplay and tools to outplay his opponents.

i wouldnt mind his w active, his q and his passive getting similar changes to what they did with Warwick

Plague InfestedJun 12, 20171 votes

the problem is his mobility. he just gets kited out in high elo, he can only get onto people with flash/other champs displacing/ or camping fog. i think it they change his Q to something like i said above he'd see higher ranked play.

so yes, a Q similar to warwicks :p

Critmaster GarenJun 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Plague Infested,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NK6azMj2,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-12T13:26:10.076+0000)

the problem is his mobility. he just gets kited out in high elo, he can only get onto people with flash/other champs displacing/ or camping fog. i think it they change his Q to something like i said above he'd see higher ranked play.

so yes, a Q similar to warwicks :p

garen is not lacking in mobility compared to other juggernauts. they all share the same design around being slow moving, beefy melee carries.

darius and yorick arent any more mobile than garen. neither is mundo or illaoi. but compared to garen theyre still more competitive.

Gizm0Jun 12, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NK6azMj2,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-06-12T13:15:12.703+0000)

youre a gold 5 rated player who played him... on a smurph? like where? silver? bronze?

you played in trash divisions while already being better at the game than your peers. how is that any indication that hes anywhere near to fine?

there hasnt been a single player this season who made it past d3 with him. he declined in winrate over the entire season and absolutely crashed with the tank update. looking at the statistics, hes not even a decent champion in silver anymore.

he desperately needs changes.

im not asking to change for a massive rework that changes his entire kit. but he does need a bit more depth to his gameplay and tools to outplay his opponents.

i wouldnt mind his w active, his q and his passive getting similar changes to what they did with

Well, the majority of the player base is in bronze and silver. I climbed to gold pretty easily by just playing Garen. There's a few players mostly otp's that play Garen at high elo, but you have to be an expert Garen player to be able to do so. At the end of the day Garen is a 450ip champ, meant for beginners to get used to top lane, with such a low skill ceiling he's easily outplayed by more complicated champs, he's clearly not in the meta either, which doesn't help. I could see maybe a small buff that would suffice, but I don't expect Garen to get reworked anytime soon.

Big LincolnJun 12, 20174 votes

At the end of the day Garen is a 450ip champ,

Ryze

also Ashe frequent pick in top tiers and pro plays despite being a beginner ADC

being a cheap champion is no excuse for leaving him as a shit pick

Gizm0Jun 12, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NK6azMj2,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2017-06-12T17:29:58.196+0000)

also frequent pick in top tiers and pro plays despite being a beginner ADC

being a cheap champion is no excuse for leaving him as a shit pick

They pick Ashe in competitive play because her ult is able to set up picks and her e is able to provide a lot of vision control. She's not necessarily the strongest adc right now and won't be able to carry on her own, but fits really well into a lot of team comps. On the contrary, Garen does not fit very well into team comps and doesn't provide as much utility as other top tier top laners.

LegenDariusGarenJun 12, 20171 votes

70% win rate in gold 5 on Garen as the main champ? I have buddies that have 100% win rate on the main champ in diamond. I have smurf accounts in gold+ where I do not build boots and have 70%+ win rate on Garen.

To comment on your youtube vid, Stormraiders + lethality runes are better than what you suggested. With items, cleaver and sunfire are trash, while spirit visage is outclassed. So you got the most important part of Garen incorrect.

Garen is in a much better spot after the tank update due to better defensive items. However, his W is in need of a rework. A change that is similar to Warwick's W is what they need to do.

Gizm0Jun 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

70% win rate in gold 5 on Garen as the main champ? I have buddies that have 100% win rate on the main champ in diamond. I have smurf accounts in gold+ where I do not build boots and have 70%+ win rate on Garen.

To comment on your youtube vid, Stormraiders + lethality runes are better than what you suggested. With items, cleaver and sunfire are trash, while spirit visage is outclassed. So you got the most important part of Garen incorrect.

Garen is in a much better spot after the tank update due to better defensive items. However, his W is in need of a rework. A change that is similar to Warwick's W is what they need to do.

Currently Stormraider's and lethality are probably better. The point of my video was to help ANY player climb to gold, and I think Storms/Lethality requires a bit more game knowledge/skill than classic tank Garen. This is why I chose to use the same runes/masteries and items that pro coach LS suggested.

LegenDariusGarenJun 12, 20173 votes

Stormraider's + Lethality has always been better. You can climb to gold with anything. Tank Garen is trash Garen.

If you want to win every lane in low elo as Garen, you rush Tiamat.

LegenDariusGarenJun 12, 20171 votes

@CritGaren: Is Turn 7 Lethal still your main?

Critmaster GarenJun 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

@CritGaren: Is Turn 7 Lethal still your main?

it never was. you might have the wrong guy. there used to be an euw account with the same name here active on the forums for a while.

havent seen him around in quite some time. but i remember he hated the shit out of orianna. it got pretty confusing at times with both of us posting.

FurriesAreHotJun 12, 20171 votes

New players need simple characters to play to start. Simple. Garen is also not in line for any type of update

Critmaster GarenJun 12, 20174 votes

{quoted}

New players need simple characters to play to start. Simple. Garen is also not in line for any type of update

there are simple beginner champions who have 1 tricks in masters. Warwick is riots beginner jungler right now, and is viable into challenger.

garen as a champion has never ever made it that far. almost throughout his existence, he capped out around d5. this isnt a problem with him just being simple. his kit just doesnt WORK in its state.

FurriesAreHotJun 12, 20172 votes

Not all characters can be viable in both high and low tiers, it's simply not possible. Warwick is a great high tier character because his numbers and scaling are balanced, unlike Garen's.

Critmaster GarenJun 12, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Not all characters can be viable in both high and low tiers, it's simply not possible. Warwick is a great high tier character because his numbers and scaling are balanced, unlike Garen's.

which can be changed.

shocker, i know.