Tristana E and Hurricane interaction. Please fix

Azeranth·Aug 7, 2016·35 votes·3,098 views

So right now, Hurricane on Tristana's E, Explosive Charge, doesn't interact properly with Runaans Hurricane. Targets slain by the tiny missiles do not explode like if they were the target of her attack directly. I wouldn't make a fuss of this if not for Runaans seeming to selectively apply other on hit effects. For instance, teemo E passive, does apply the poison which is very handy for poisoning many targets in a team fight. Now, I could understand why Tristana wouldn't have this, because straight up her wave clear would be horrendously broken even sooner because then she could be shooting the super while her E passive continued to do the extra damage to it or make it easier for her to clear red because the small ones would do the splash damage also. But, if that's the case then Teemo's E needs fixed to not apply the poison as an on hit. That's all, just a small inconsistency that annoys me.

34 Comments

It Hertz When IPAug 7, 20169 votes

It's not a balance thing, otherwise Jinx's Q in rocket mode wouldn't proc three explosions per shot.

Ashe JungleAug 7, 20165 votes

Because of how Runaan's works, some things will apply 3x and others won't and that's OK. The important part is that the item is consistent in what works and what doesn't.

From the wikia for Runaan's:

UNIQUE – WIND'S FURY: When Basic attacking, bolts are fired at up to 2 enemies near the target, each dealing 25% AD physical damage. Bolts can critically strike and apply on-hit effects.

I interpret this as "Runaan's makes your basic attacks hit 3 targets instead of one." Much like how Hydra makes your basic attacks AOE.

That means Teemo's E should apply to all targets as an on-hit. It means Ashe's Q, Cait's passive, rageblade, and golem buff should not stack 3x since you are only attacking once even though you're hitting multiple targets.

Let's look at Trist now:

Passive: Enemies explode when slain by Tristana's basic attacks, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies.

According to my interpretation above, minions slain by Runaan's bolts should be counted as "slain by a basic attack", therefore they should explode in the scenario you describe.

Tldr Runaan's isn't consistent and should be. OP is right about how Trist should interact with it.

AzeranthAug 7, 20161 votes

I don't care if the change doesn't make That op, I just want Runaans to be consistent

Ashe JungleAug 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't care if the change doesn't make That op, I just want Runaans to be consistent

Me, too.

ElikainAug 7, 20162 votes

I'm thinking that Trist's effect is on-attack/death effect. It doesn't apply unless the target dies and it has to die by her basic attack. Runaan's 2 additional bolts aren't her attacks, it's just the damage of her attacks split as additional projectiles that don't carry over on-attack effects.

It simply isn't an effect that carries over the course of her attacks, it's something that triggers once the target dies from her attacks. It also explains why Ashe's Q shots are applied to both bolts but Ashe can't stack her Q faster from the bolts, as the two bolts aren't considered her own attacks.

Ashe JungleAug 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm thinking that Trist's effect is on-attack/death effect. It doesn't apply unless the target dies and it has to die by her basic attack. Runaan's 2 additional bolts aren't her attacks, it's just the damage of her attacks split as additional projectiles that don't carry over on-attack effects.

I guess I disagree about whether Runaan's bolts are her basic attacks or not.

It simply isn't an effect that carries over the course of her attacks, it's something that triggers once the target dies from her attacks. It also explains why Ashe's Q shots are applied to both bolts but Ashe can't stack her Q faster from the bolts, as the two bolts aren't considered her own attacks.

This is not how Ashe's Q interacts with Runaan's.

From a strictly code standpoint, Ashe's Q makes her basic attacks fire a salvo of 5 projectiles which each deal damage separately (yes, that means you can apply 5 cleaver stacks per AA). Only the first applies on-hit effects.

When Ashe has Runaan's, each projectile in the salvo triggers Runaan's separately. This means Ashe can hit up to 11 targets per AA. Not terribly useful but looks really cool in a minion wave.

Tldr they should really reword Runaan's passive for clarity.

ElikainAug 8, 20161 votes

Ashe cannot hit 11 targets with Runaan's. I've played her, i've watched the effect, it hits 3 targets but with all 5 separate mini-shots, with the first applying the on-hit effects once. I know about the BC applying instantly

Ashe JungleAug 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ashe cannot hit 11 targets with Runaan's. I've played her, i've watched the effect, it hits 3 targets but with all 5 separate mini-shots, with the first applying the on-hit effects once. I know about the BC applying instantly

I am pretty sure I'm correct, but I will test in a custom when I get online.

The FatherAug 7, 20162 votes

I disagree with your interpretation but I agree that Runaan's should be applied consistently.

By describing, coding, and theory it makes sense that actions that can only occur off a basic attack, do in fact, only occur off basic attacks. If you consider the on-hit from Runaan's as damage from an item, which makes sense in terms of its description "Bolts can critically strike and apply on-hit effects", coding ( Runaan's applied X dmg, just as Statikk Shiv applied X dmg), and theory ( I have an external apparatus that applies damage at the same time but separately from my basic attacks)

It makes sense that Runaan's killing a minion wouldn't proc Tristana's passive, just as Statikk Shiv doesn't.

However, Teemo's E from wiki reads

PASSIVE: Teemo's basic attacks deal bonus magic damage and poison his target, causing them to take additional magic damage over 4 seconds. Subsequent attacks refresh the poison's duration.

This should be changed to "PASSIVE: Teemo's basic attacks deal on-hit bonus magic damage and poison his target, causing them to take additional magic damage over 4 seconds. Subsequent attacks refresh the poison's duration.

AzeranthAug 8, 20161 votes

Riot and their spaghetti code

AstreaSoulAug 7, 20164 votes

Tristana's E passive is an on-kill + on-attack spellcast effect. This is consistent with effects like Kayle's E, which applies the splash(also an on-attack spellcast) only from the primary target. Since item 3085 does not count as attacks, Tristana's E passive will not proc from them, same as Kayle's E.

ScissorsNstuffAug 7, 20162 votes

THE ANSWER (probably)

Tristana's E triggers on basic attack not on autoattack nor onhit

on basic attack is not the same as on attack or onhit

AzeranthAug 7, 20162 votes

But Teemo poison is on AA not onhit

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But Teemo poison is on AA not onhit

well by need to hit you with autos to apply the poison that is on hit effect. now as trist E you cast the ability onto a target and you can amplify the damage by auto attacking the target , but she dont automatically puts Es on every one sheautos. its a cast/targeted ability. just like ashe's ult when you have item 3085 you dont fire 3 giant arrows you still fire one because you are casting an ability. where as teemo's poison its not a castable ability, its an on hit effect

Iota ThetaAug 7, 20161 votes

I thought he meant her E's passive, which when she kills a minion it explodes, not the active of placing the explosive charge. The LoL wiki classifies it as a non-physical on-hit effect.

AzeranthAug 7, 20161 votes

I do

BloodyTomponAug 7, 20161 votes

There are really unintuitive distinctions between on-hits things like on-hits (e.g, on-attack). By the sounds of it, Trist E is not considered an on hit, but an on-attack.

Ashe JungleAug 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There are really unintuitive distinctions between on-hits things like on-hits (e.g, on-attack). By the sounds of it, Trist E is not considered an on hit, but an on-attack.

On-hit and on-attack is a great distinction.

However, it is not consistently applied, which causes issues.

BloodyTomponAug 7, 20163 votes

It's a necessary distinction for balance reasons, but the inconsistency makes it unintuitive

Ashe JungleAug 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's a necessary distinction for balance reasons, but the inconsistency makes it unintuitive

Yep.

RogueWillAug 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ashe Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NIm2Qqoo,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-08-07T15:26:25.610+0000)

On-hit and on-attack is a great distinction.

However, it is not consistently applied, which causes issues.

I'm pretty sure it adds spears for rend on Kalista.... which is clearly a on-attack effect

Auz the RipperAug 8, 20162 votes

The Spears are definitely an on-hit effect. On-attack type abilities are things like Cho'gath's vorpal spikes

dapositivevikingAug 8, 20161 votes

hi hello I've been trying to follow this thread and I've gone to the wiki to try and figure the distinction for on-hit versus on-attack but i am stupid may you help with an explanation

Ashe JungleAug 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

hi hello I've been trying to follow this thread and I've gone to the wiki to try and figure the distinction for on-hit versus on-attack but i am stupid may you help with an explanation

On-hit happens when your auto - attack actually hits. On-attack happens each time your champion attacks.

Most of the time, there is one on-hit for each attack. Rageblade makes some attacks hit twice, so on-hit is applied twice, but it's still one attack. Runaan's makes your aa's hit up to 2 additional targets, but it's still just one attack.

That's important, otherwise you could stack Rageblade 3x as fast with Runaan's and rageblade's phantom hit would make you fire 4 additional bolts.

dapositivevikingAug 10, 20161 votes

hey thanks, beautiful

AzeranthAug 7, 20161 votes

But Teemo poison is an on attack effect. But rebuff is an on hit. Yet both of them are applied by Runaans. Therefore it shouldn't matter, bolts should PROC both

ScissorsNstuffAug 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But Teemo poison is an on attack effect. But rebuff is an on hit. Yet both of them are applied by Runaans. Therefore it shouldn't matter, bolts should PROC both

on basic attack != on-hit

on basic attack means on a normal attack, enhanced or not, ezreal Q does onhit (or used to) but wont count as a basicattack

invisiblecat1Aug 7, 20161 votes

Along with this, can they finally fix that rocket girl chroma bug which the fixed before but it came back

MiraweaveAug 8, 20161 votes

Tristana's E was specifically changed to be an on-attack effect to stop AP Tristana from doing this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSkJ-hGqGXY

lofi n chillhopAug 8, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure her passive, if she kills a minion it explodes, does not count as an on hit effect.

SSJTribeAug 8, 20161 votes

I'll occasionally play adc Twisted Fate in normals, and I'm still confused by why when you use W - Pick a Card, the Runaan's won't even fire.

CalabokAug 8, 20161 votes

Trying to argue a Buff for Tristana is bad.

The DeckownerAug 8, 20161 votes

tris e is an on-attack ability similar to xin zhao's w crit, meanwhile teemo's e is an on-hit ability.

DämonfeuerJan 2, 20181 votes

Tristana's E passive proccs from the DEATH of the minion not just from being hit.... so, they really couldn't get this to work the way you seem to think it should and want it to. The bolts are not going to do close to same amount of damage as her AA, and also attack right next to the target you are aiming for as well, therefor useless anyway since the E passive would kill those minions that the extra bolts hit anyway. In order for this to even remotely work for the way you seem to think and want it to then they need to completely rework Runaan's Hurricane altogether so that the bolts it fires hit targets farther apart then your target, and out of the detonation range of her E's passive which would then make Tristana's wave clear pretty much in a league of its own, with maybe only Twitch being able to keep up with her (after he builds Hurricane himself, uses his W and then executes all the minions when they are low enough hp with his E).

So ergo.... NO Riot is not going to make Runaan's Hurricane proc Tristana's E passive so sorry but get over it and move on guys, never ever ever going to happen.