Marksman Item builds = boring

Penta Penguin··17 votes·2,144 views

Marksman items are boring as fuck, and generally not very open to decision making.

38 Comments

Wînter Fox10 votes

The ironic part is that right now ADC item diversity is the best it's ever been.

Dr Poro10 votes

Indeed! builds vary from item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 item 3026 all the way to item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3035 item 3072 item 3026

Icestar11863 votes

item 3153 item 3172 item 3085 item 3087

BlackMagicWilson2 votes

I don't think any adc really needs Zephyr over any other adc item.

Icestar11861 votes

With the MS it can replace boots in lategame

terkmc3 votes

item 3153 item 3142 item 3087 item 3078 on some of em

Shrek Luigi1 votes

item 3031 item 3142 item 3072item 3035

Graves mfw

Renaille7 votes

Deciding whether to build shiv or pd is hard sometimes.

Z Statistic1 votes

Do I have no mobility and therefore need as much dps as possible to kill any and all divers? y: PD n: Shiv

In every other case you pretty much want to go SS because it let's you poke vs soft engage which is how a lot of teamfights go.

Stacona2 votes

Statikk Shiv is better in every aspect

SpiritGear3 votes

But dat creeep block op

XeroKimo1 votes

I only take shiv on champions that have on-hit or empowered attack skill like or they're really bursty Ezreal Draven Graves MissFortune Tho I never play the on hit ez

Junsui Aoi6 votes

Become a support :D Never build the same thing twice!

(just kidding XD though I do agree)

50000000000000001 votes

This is seriously one of the reasons why I like supports but not adc as roles go.

ADCs are meant to do sustained damage, so they have no choice but to build AD, crit chance, and attack speed. Life steal helps for defensive purposes, but it really is secondary to dps. I understand why ADCs don't get a lot of choice in their builds, but I still don't like following that.

qetzel5 votes

Each individual marksman has about as much diversity in their build as any other champion. You always want the highest possible output on any champion. You will therefore always build an incredibly similar set of items in every game. All champions have this problem (except Ezreal and Corki).

This looks like a bigger problem for marksmen because they all have a similar job. Rain AA down on your enemies. The optimal build for each of them is the same. Want a more diverse build for ADCs? Make ADCs that aren't focussed on auto attacks. The trouble is that then they wouldn't be ADCs. This is something that I think is impossible to be fixed.

Adaelphon Delat3 votes

Ezreal and Corki benefit from unique builds. AP MF and Varus also fill that role in interesting ways. Teemo sort of can too, if you really want to. The problem is that right now none of those characters is as effective (in the bot lane) as the other ADC's.

qetzel1 votes

But AP MF, Ez and Varus aren't marksmen. They don't have the same role as their AD builds have. They have different playstyles, not different builds. I think that the OP was trying to say "I wish we didn't have to go IE first then a crit item etc etc". I think he wants more variety in the AD build rather than more possible builds.

Partholonian2 votes

Do they not autoattack people from range? I think you're being too narrow in how you define marksmen if you exclude them (as well as AP Tris and Kog).

And of course Teemo.

item 3115 item 3085 and maybe item 3091 is exactly the kind of marksman build that all those Yasuo and Zed need on their team, if only it was viable. How many over-physical-heavy teams have you seen in just the past week? What's the one damage dealing position that currently has no ability to help with that problem by bringing a different damage type? Even on champions whose kits seem to say they could work with that build (but actually can't work at all, because the items they synergize with are just ruinously underpowered compared to crit, crit, and more crit)?

BluePolarizer1 votes

the highest win rate Ez build for pros doesn't involve crit.

qetzel1 votes

Ez is different. I mentioned this in the first post of this... what do you call this? Discussion tree?

Partholonian5 votes

Mandatory crit keeps down Runaan's and people who could use it combined with their kit and more items with onhits to shred and/or melt whole teams.

It also squelches both AS/AP builds and AD caster marksmen, neither of whom use it well enough.

Crit needs nerfs before marksman itemization can open up.

OperationDEEZ12 votes

The only real decision making is deciding which items to build before others, in the end you'll have your standard ADC build.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

Critical strike doubles your damage and is not optimal not to go for it. If they remove crit strikes and boost the stats and abilities of adc, people will build different items depending on the enemy team (but RIOT will have to add some new AS and AD items)

Marthian2 votes

Not to mention this would possibly buff assassins.

Davy Crockett2 votes

Situationally... If there is a teemo on the enemy team, you better be building a QSS.

Stacona2 votes

Statikk Shiv and Hurricane are super fun items

Silents4292 votes

It's only the same for people who don't have the balls to try a changing up what items they get on their ADC.

The itemization isn't that bad, everyone's just convinced that nothing else is better.

NoMonku1 votes

I prefer it for its simplicity though. At least I don't need to stop and think "what do I need to buy" for 10-15 seconds in the shop. The only thing I really look for is if 2+ have armor so get zeal and forgo PD/Shiv and get LW. After that only time I have to think is my defensive item.

Teridax681 votes

I feel a lot of it has to do with marksmen being the most stat-oriented class in the game. Core items like item 3031 and item 3035 , along with less mandatory items like item 3046 or even item 3172 , offer pretty much nothing but stats, as opposed to more unique or impactful bonuses. Even mages, who also have stat sticks (e.g. item 3089 , item 3135 or item 3027 ), have many more options, each of them with interesting effects, and more often than not those items are sought out because of their effects, and not just their stats (though those are still important). By contrast, even the more interactive marksman items out there (e.g. item 3072 , item 3087 , item 3153 ) are selected almost purely for their ability to fill out a marksman's typical stat requirements (attack speed, attack damage, crit, life steal, armor penetration...) and for their ability to provide optimal DPS. There aren't really that many situational bonuses a marksman can opt into, and while other classes can itemize for different strategies, marksmen are discouraged from deviating too much from their standard build (item 3085 doesn't synergize at all with crit, and even item 3139 is often deemed too expensive relative to item 3026). Marksman scaling and itemization needs to change a little so that ADCs choose items based on the unique bonuses and synergies they bring, rather than just the raw stat increase they provide, and the stat sticks they depend on today need to undertake significant changes or leave completely.

50000000000000001 votes

item 3185 This gives a nice bonus, but I've never seen anyone take it unless the enemy has a lot of stealth.

BluePolarizer2 votes

maybe because it doesn't exist in summoner's rift.

50000000000000001 votes

I mean even on ARAM.

RoMz1 votes

Bring back old BT :3

Qarekeo1 votes

I don't think the cookie-cutter marksmen build is really the optimal one for every single marksmen, and I see some really nice options in season 5.

item 3508 is a really good one on Tristana for example, because her abilities and autos feed into each other, and you can easily get mana back with her AS buff and keep planting bombs nonstop.

The new item 3071 also seems like a good option for bursty marksmen too, and we get an excuse to use a bruiser item on marksmen now with its CDR and debuff, along with helping out your AD teammates and fulfilling your "carry" role.

I haven't seen many marksmen take item 3139, but it might work with Quinn to help her dive in and out of fights without dying.

That's just a few examples of items on certain marksmen and situations, but I think there are a lot more. You just have to consider your champion and situation.

BluePolarizer1 votes

The only unique marksmen seems to be Ezreal item 3153 item 3078 item 3042 item 3158 item 3071 item 3035 .

Duke Anax1 votes

It's not that there are no variations to adc builds, but people are just too stubborn or too stupid to make those changes.

For example IE is definitely an important item in the build, but it math shows that it is not the best first item by far. Static Shiv or Phantom Dancer followed by BF Sword, costs about the same, has way more dps and is a lot easier build path for the early game.

Cutlas followed by Runaan is also an easy build in the same price range that gives you nice waveclear and sustain.

Urgot got completely unique build options all on his own and don't let me get started on Teemo...

BlackMagicWilson1 votes

Crit strike has become an absolute must on all adcs which really limits their choices in items.

Cindikle1 votes

You don't pick your items.

You pick your champion, then build the same items as every other person that plays that champion. (May or may not be "every".)

At best a Graves might build BoRK over BT if he's got a Mundo in his face all game.

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