I welcome these ryze nerfs if they go through

Tychusfindlay919·Dec 8, 2016·11 votes·828 views

This guy is more cancer in lane pre 6 than the busted ryze (before the most recent rework).

Ryze, when taken by someone who is comfortable with him, absolutely dominates top lane to hell and back. He pokes and pokes and pokes and the one time you catch him out, he uses Q, gets a giant shield, and just sprints away at mach 5. And for extra measure for when you catch him, he can point and click ZERO COUNTERPLAY snare you for a minimum of 1 second and potentially 2 seconds. Oh yeah, and Q afterwards and run away at mach 5

31 Comments

CRZephyrDec 8, 20161 votes

I agree with you given that he is a machine gun mage who hyper scales into the late game and yet his early and mid game if played correctly are superior to most other champions as well. I seriously think no joke that they should abandon the idea of a machine gun mage, and do another rework on him, because any attempts to make it viable just lead to it being broken when in the right hands.

Jesus Is My KingDec 8, 20161 votes

yeah some of his abilities make no sense to me, when he does that thing with minions and then somehow it still hits me from across the mid lane.

Kharn SkyshatterDec 8, 20161 votes

They keep trying to keep the "core feeling" and keep most of his kit and passive while trying to balance it. Problem is the things they are trying to keep is everything wrong with him.

SanctimoniousDec 8, 20161 votes

Gut the OP blue man.

hhaavviikkDec 8, 20161 votes

if they would just get rid of that bs uncounterable snare it would make playing against ryze so much better

bbQsauçeDec 8, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay919Dec 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N0EtthIt,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-08T22:03:10.686+0000)

Meanwhile

Those two aren't annoying top lane, they don't register in my mind as a top laner.

I'm looking out for myself and other top lane mains, that's the ultimate point of this thread.

If ADCs want to whine, I'm pretty sure there is a cait thread already, and if you want, you can make a jhin thread.

bbQsauçeDec 8, 20161 votes

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Tychusfindlay919Dec 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N0EtthIt,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T22:43:01.109+0000)

Meanwhile Better?

Cassiopeia almost never goes top lane. Vladimir is freelo. Kennen I can agree with.

bbQsauçeDec 8, 20161 votes

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Tychusfindlay919Dec 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N0EtthIt,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T22:48:29.189+0000)

Vlad is freelo after he's been nerfed to the ground. Cassio top lane is legit.

Not really. She can't really poke most of the tanky top laners before running hard out of mana. A lot of top laners can also just run her ass down early game when she's forced to go tear over damage/utility.

bbQsauçeDec 8, 20161 votes

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Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N0EtthIt,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T23:58:40.032+0000)

She can farm up for tear and then TP back to lane, mana isn't an issue. Of course she's not strong against every pick but she's legit.

Right and so she gets tear and then what? Mana isn't an issue but the enemy laner, if a juggernaut, is already working on hexdrinker, or, if a tank, working on spirit visage. She gets zoned out of CS.

Alternatively, in the dangerous and lonely island of top lane, where the lane is much longer, ganks are deadly for squishy immobile champions like Cassiopeia.

There's a reason tanks and bruisers go top lane. It's an unforgiving lane for immobile squishy champs.

DanjengDec 9, 20161 votes

Right and so she gets tear and then what? Mana isn't an issue but the enemy laner, if a juggernaut, is already working on hexdrinker, or, if a tank, working on spirit visage. She gets zoned out of CS.

You can literally apply the same argument to Ryze. He runs out of mana before you run out of health (if you have pots and MR). Ryze also builds tear and uses mana out quickly. Also Cassiopeia is NOT squishy with her RoA and Rylai's, innate sustain, strong kiting ability.

bbQsauçeDec 9, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N0EtthIt,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-09T01:24:01.272+0000)

This. Also you don't have to win lane or you lose the game, if you're in an unfavorable matchup you can just farm up and scale like a god. You're underestimating the strength of a dps mage like cassio, tanks ain't shit to her.

You can just play a safer DPS mage who actually has an oppressive early game and still scales pretty damn well.

AKA ryze

bbQsauçeDec 9, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N0EtthIt,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-09T13:50:23.874+0000)

Cassio has an oppressive early game as well. There's a reason she's considered a counter to ryze.

Irrelevant. Ryze is a much better counter to most top laners than cassiopeia is. Dont forget the point of this thread

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You can literally apply the same argument to Ryze. He runs out of mana before you run out of health (if you have pots and MR). Ryze also builds tear and uses mana out quickly. Also Cassiopeia is NOT squishy with her RoA and Rylai's, innate sustain, strong kiting ability.

Ryze actually gets Mana when he gets AP and his abilities have a mana scale so he does more damage the more mana he gets. He's also safer than cassiopeia because his shield and move speed boost repel all ins better than anything cass has pre 6.

His farming is a lot easier with the e spread mechanic. And unlike cass, he can potentially farm and poke at the same time depending on how his E spreads (especially if a low hp minion is nearby).

He has a point and click snare and his E which empowers everything is also point and click. Cassiopeia doesnt have anything as reliable as ryze because her twin fangs requires something to be poisoned to begin with, and trying to land her poisoning abilities is a pain in the ass because theyre dodge-able, especially because most melees have base MS anywhere from 340-350 unlike the ranged champs cass is used to dealing with mid.

Rylais also got dumpstered so sure cass can rush it still but it wont be anywhere near as good as it used to be. Ryze doesnt build rylais so he doesnt care.

Theres a lot of reasons why ryze can and does get picked top but cass cant and doesnt.

DanjengDec 9, 20161 votes

Nasus and Darius are VERY easy lanes for Ryze. Your argument that Ryze is broken, would be like Riven saying Garen is broken.

It's all perspective. For example, Zed probably isn't a problem for you at all. But ADC's will think otherwise. Just keep this in mind. This advice doesn't only apply to LoL but in life, to understand other people's viewpoints.

Try climbing using Ryze top. No excuses, he costs 450. I know you're thinking of ignoring this comment, but really do try, It will help you understand his weaknesses and strengths. Are you going to do it? Trust me, it's the best way to learn how to counter. Do it.

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nasus and Darius are VERY easy lanes for Ryze btw. Your argument that Ryze is broken, would be like Riven saying Garen is broken.

It's all perspective. For example, Zed probably isn't a problem for you at all. But ADC's will think otherwise.

Right so you look up my match history, find my mains (irrelevant as The OP speaks for all top laners), and argue with that.

It doesnt help your case. Ryze fucks over most melees harder than cassiopeia does in lane. A lot of it comes down to his shield and ms boost and the hilarious reliability of his point and click instant stun with decent range which also gets double the snare if you care to use another point and click ability beforehand.

Ryze is fucking brainless and powerful... Like he always has been.

DanjengDec 9, 20161 votes

Ryze is fucking brainless and powerful

Fuck you. Darius and Nasus isn't? You insult me saying my champion is brainless. Not sure if a joke.

I feel the exact same way to Darius when I'm playing Garen. Do you know how oppressive this lane is? Perspective.

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Fuck you. Darius and Nasus isn't? You insult me saying my champion is brainless. Not sure if a joke.

I feel the exact same way to Darius when I'm playing Garen. Do you know how oppressive this lane is? Perspective.

Your comment here will prob be deleted for such profanity. But in any case, darius isn't powerful. Ryze is actually powerful, and hes getting nerfed because of it.

GayFluffyUnicornDec 9, 20161 votes

I'd rather face a ryze in toplane than cassio. One misstep at level two and she will kill you know matter which tank you play. Sure maybe not a riven or darius but nauti and maokai for example

RequiemsfireDec 9, 20161 votes

Gnar Olaf XinZhao Tryndamere

dominusxDec 8, 20161 votes

simply remove him. i cant remembe a SINGLE balanced ryze rework . he is ALWAYS a toxic champion untill he gets gutted into beeing unplayble then rework him into beeing brokne again

DanjengDec 9, 20161 votes

I agree with you, but I think there's a bias about how cancerous he is, since you're a top main. While Ryze dominates the top lane with his mighty range, that's not the case for mid.

If other midlaners like Cass or any ADC went top, they would be equally if not more cancerous to deal with. Say, Vayne for example. Top Ryze isn't played as often as Mid Ryze. So judging his performance top would be similar to balancing Juggernaut items on ADC's.

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I agree with you, but I think there's a bias about how cancerous he is, since you're a top main. While Ryze dominates the top lane with his mighty range, that's not the case for mid.

If other midlaners like Cass or any ADC went top, they would be equally if not more cancerous to deal with. Say, Vayne for example. Top Ryze isn't played as often as Mid Ryze. So judging his performance top would be similar to balancing Juggernaut items on ADC's.

But ryze is different in that catching him out doesnt do much when he gains a boost of durability and a massive speed boost comparable to having ghost at the same time. He also has point and click snare.

Vayne can be caught out and doesnt have ANYTHING in terms of shields or healing or ghost speeds in her kit, same with cass, although she has a negligible heal in a lane thats less about poking and more about nasty all ins.

RequiemsfireDec 9, 20161 votes

Ryze is much better midlane than toplane anyways.

Tychusfindlay919Dec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ryze is much better midlane than toplane anyways.

Not true. Mid lane the new ryze suffers many of the issues old ryze does, which is that mages with better range poke him to oblivion and he slams his keyboard.

New ryze goes top and makes most top lane melees slam their keyboard because ryze, unlike most mages, has very good survivability and his DPS is absurd compared to other high durability mages like vladimir (who usually gets shat on top)

RequiemsfireDec 9, 20161 votes

Ryze has no issues in the mid lane... I know this because I actually play Ryze a lot. He can actually win or stay relevant in the majority of mid lane match ups thanks to his wave clear and easy access to a shield so he can survive an unexpected gank from any direction.