The new runes are just a mastery system.

Critmaster Garen·Nov 5, 2017·39 votes·2,067 views

just hypothetically speaking, why cant we combine runes from a single path freely?

why are they divided into rows where runes in the same rows are exclusive? arent the minor runes all supposed to have the same power budget, since you got rid of the concept of major runes?

just wondering why we cant do stuff like picking celerity and transcendence from the second row of the sorcery path at the same time, but were forced to decide between them.

especially in the case of the sorcery runes, i can see that usually all of the runes in the same rows have entirely different effects and arent even comparable to each other (as opposed to the legend runes from precision or the bounty hunter ruens for example), which is why it doesnt make a lot of sense to me that theyre exclusive.

20 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelousNov 5, 201713 votes

Probably a balancing lever.

The same argument applied to the current system: "Why do I have to pick between Bounty Hunter/Double Edged/Battle Trance? Why can't I just pick all three". I'm also going to assume we'll see runes swapped between tiers in the event of a combo being TOO good.

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Probably a balancing lever.

The same argument applied to the current system: "Why do I have to pick between Bounty Hunter/Double Edged/Battle Trance? Why can't I just pick all three". I'm also going to assume we'll see runes swapped between tiers in the event of a combo being TOO good.

for a lot of the runes, its not the same case as with the % damage masteries in ferocity right now.

i can see where youre coming from, that its supposed to be a choice between different situational low % damage bonuses instead of just being able to stack all 3 of them for more than 10% damage increase.

however, the new runes are entirely different in that regard. at least most of the time, the effects are so vastly different from one another, that they arent really comparable.

for example, why are futures market and minion dematerializer exclusive? theyre entirely diffent effects.

the same goes for a lot of the sorcery runes. youre not deciding between 3 different sources of cdr in that second row. youre deciding between movement speed, cdr or bonus ad/ap over a certain health threshold. there is no real correlation between these runes and no stacked case scenario. so why are they exclusive to one another?

you could argue that all 3 of them can provide a situational ad/ap bonus. but in that case, why is gathering storm and water walking not in that row aswell? if multiple rows can provide bonus ap/ad anyways, then why arrange them exactly the way they are instead of letting us mix them freely?

FakeGravityNov 5, 20171 votes

i think is not about how similar they are but are only in a group to stop ppl from picking only the most optimal choice, some do are very similar, different types of damage and different types of outside of combat utility, but is mostly like the old system , you got thunderlords for damage so you cant get stormraiders as well for the movility nor windspeaker for the utility

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Probably a balancing lever.

The same argument applied to the current system: "Why do I have to pick between Bounty Hunter/Double Edged/Battle Trance? Why can't I just pick all three". I'm also going to assume we'll see runes swapped between tiers in the event of a combo being TOO good.

oh, and by the way. the depth of the path doesnt play a role in the power budget of individuial runes either.

each rune within the same row is supposed to have the same power budget to make them all an equally viable choice. but since you can pick any rune from ANY row into your secondary path, the individual rows also have to have the same power budget for the system to make sense.

like the runes in the third row of a path cant be worth more or less than the runes in the first or second row, since that would remove the choice of which row youd chose your runes for the secondary path from.

this means all non keystone runes HAVE to have the same power budget for the system to make sense and should be interchangable.

Support BoyyyNov 5, 20174 votes

I literally thought the same thing, it really makes it hard to decide which runes are going to be best.

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I literally thought the same thing, it really makes it hard to decide which runes are going to be best.

there are a few runes like the legend runes and the bounty hunter runes, where it feels like it makes sense to chose one of the three respectively.

but really the majority of the runes in each path are so vastly different in effect that it seems completely arbitrary which runes are made exclusive to each other.

most notably in the inspiration and sorcery pathes, where literally each rune has an entirely different effect than the other ones they share their rows with.

how did they come to make people chose between minion dematerializer or magical footwear? why did they make people chose between waterwalking and scorch?

even in the other cases. would it really be too crazy to allow people to pick all 3 bounty hunter runes, or all 3 legend runes if they wanted to? its always a tradeoff to other runes that they wouldnt pick in their place.

Support BoyyyNov 5, 20172 votes

They should totally implement that, or at the very least, allow you to choose 2 more runes in the same path at the cost of having no secondary rune path. For example, instead of choosing 4 from Inspiration and then 2 from Resolve, you could just pick up 6 Inspiration runes.

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

They should totally implement that, or at the very least, allow you to choose 2 more runes in the same path at the cost of having no secondary rune path. For example, instead of choosing 4 from Inspiration and then 2 from Resolve, you could just pick up 6 Inspiration runes.

that would be kindof interesting. i wonder if they ever thought about double dipping into the same path.

basically doing shit like chosing sorcery as your primary and secondary path, and allowing you to pick runes into your secondary path that you didnt chose in the primary.

so your build could be sorcery/sorcery with

#phase rush
ultimate hat
celerity
water walking
transcendence
scorch

since you didnt chose transcendence and scorch in your primary path.

this actually sounds like a pretty good compromise, since at best you could chose two out of three runes from the same row, but you could still pick them up at the same time if you really want the option.

Support BoyyyNov 5, 20173 votes

Exactly, hopefully they will implement it after the release of the new runes.

CowseedNov 5, 20172 votes

I think the intention is to not have runes be best but to fit playstyles and situations. I kinda loath the "meta-everything" mentality because what you're asking for is just gonna result in circle-jerks and nerfs circulation.

KnalxzNov 5, 20171 votes

Well OP I'm not sure if you know this but they're meant to be the new mastery system hence why masteries are being retired with the old runes.

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well OP I'm not sure if you know this but they're meant to be the new mastery system hence why masteries are being retired with the old runes.

yes, i know that the new system is replacing the old runes and masteries. im just wondering why the system isnt more flexible, and designed like the old mastery system where youd chose between exclusive masteries.

since all the non keystone runes are supposed to be equally powerful, its weird that they dont let us chose any 3 runes of the main path and any 2 runes from the secondary path, but that we have to chose between some of them. in most cases it doesnt even make sense why two runes are exclusive to one another.

Karn BishopNov 5, 20171 votes

There are certain champions i could absolutely break if i was allowed to do what you ask.

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Myrltt6J,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-11-05T13:07:00.154+0000)

There are certain champions i could absolutely break if i was allowed to do what you ask.

for example?

Need Gold 4 TentNov 5, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Myrltt6J,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-11-05T13:23:54.932+0000)

for example?

Any carry with free 8% lifesteal, 20% tenacity and 18% AS. That's already close to being an item on its own.

AngelFrost00Nov 5, 20171 votes

Or doing more dmg to low health enemy + dealing more dmg to enemy with more max hp than you + deal more dmg while you are in low health with item 3153 on Vayne Kappa

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Or doing more dmg to low health enemy + dealing more dmg to enemy with more max hp than you + deal more dmg while you are in low health with on Kappa

even then youre not gaining other runes in their place. you dont get any of the other runes in that path.

lets say the runes arent equally strong. this still doesnt explain why we cant double dip into the same path and chose it as our primary and secondary option.

you might be able to get two of the % damage runes in precision, but youre not gaining any of the runes of the other pathes in their place.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Myrltt6J,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T14:46:20.655+0000)

even then youre not gaining other runes in their place. you dont get any of the other runes in that path.

lets say the runes arent equally strong. this still doesnt explain why we cant double dip into the same path and chose it as our primary and secondary option.

you might be able to get two of the % damage runes in precision, but youre not gaining any of the runes of the other pathes in their place.

We've already seen what too much % increased damage stacking does to this game. And PTA gonna make it even worse.

Critmaster GarenNov 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Myrltt6J,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-05T14:50:47.982+0000)

We've already seen what too much % increased damage stacking does to this game. And PTA gonna make it even worse.

one option would be to turn the % damage amp runes just into ap/ad bonuses with the same trigger conditions.

then there should be no issue with stacking them. there are enough ap/ad sources distributed over the trees that it barely matters how you stack them.

in your example it seems like a couple of specific runes that could be stacked with each other are limiting the entire system.

i dont really see an issue with stacking all the legend runes for example.