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Why I Think Giving %Crit Cance Some Static Percentage Damage Would Spice Things Up

LilxPaprika··8 votes·1,668 views

i was listening to WingsofDeath yesterday and he was talking about how he'd go for that 1v1 between him as lucian vs graves but didn't want to chance it over who gets the first crit off. I think adding %crit would make the game more fun. you'd see more duels and #LCSBigPlays. less risk = more reason to fight/less reason not to fight. Also, by adding percentage damage you could use the new +crit %dmg runes. and could still farm creeps with %crit chance runes. Builds like shiv + ghostblade could work. or triforce phantom dancer could work. or IE triforce (since you'd have enough % crit chance runes to give you say 40% chance to crit). apart from equipping maybe 1 or 2 crit marks crit runes are hardly used unless you're gp/trynd/yasuo. Early game phase will be cooler bot lane since you'll have more crits early game.

What is Percentage Damage?

Say you have 100 damage and 25% critical rate, means that every 1 in 4 attacks should crit, but that does not mean they necessarily will. With in the attacks, all 4 could crit or none could, which would be the extremes. Ideally though, if 1 attack in the 4 crits, then you would deal 500 damage, due to one of the attacks damage being double and without factoring in armour and the like(100+100+100+200=500). Percentage Damage instead spreads the ideal damage over those 4 attacks. So, if you have 100 damage, each of your attacks will do 125 damage, so you would deal 500 damage as well(125+125+125+125=500).

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/HN02qwXc-critical-chance-fix-to-help-bruisers

i think the solution would be to draw from both. reach middle ground/split the difference. give every auto attack increase dmg based on % critical damage, but only 50% strong, while keeping actual crits in the game just make the actual crits 50% less strong.
you can still crit it just wont be thaaat big itll still be noticeable. more like a sheen proc than a trinity force proc.

so in your example
Percentage Damage instead spreads the ideal damage over those 4 attacks. So, if you have 100 damage, at 25% crit chance each of your attacks will do 125 damage.

Solution: take a bit from both worlds Such that you would do 112.5 damage per auto and have a chance of doing 112.5 + (100% of dmg x 0.5) so essentially adding half your damage to that. so 112.5 plus 50 = 162.5. so the new max crit would differ by 200-162.5 = 37.5 dmg. from the traditional/current crit

18 Comments

KidSpectre2 votes

A lot of people say that crit is just as bad as dodge. This is a fundamentally flawed argument because of key differences between the mechanics. An obvious one is that they serve totally different purposes.

Crit is something called a "force multiplier," it increases your damage output from a base stat. When crits don't apply, you will still do damage from that base stat, attack damage. This is key. Even though you crit (psuedo-)randomly, you still do some kind of damage.

The issue with dodge is that it is, in effect, the complete opposite of crit. It's a form of "mitigation," and a very powerful one. The main problem you run into is that dodge is "all or nothing." You either avoid ALL the damage from whatever you dodged, or you get no benefit at all. The fact this happens randomly only aggravates this issue, because if you get lucky there is literally nothing your opponent can do to combat or counter it. Crits are still affected by armor and have to chew through HP, but if you can dodge, you can have 1 hp and 0 armor but still be fine. This is what makes dodge broken.

Sire Hippington2 votes

there is no difference, dodge is a defensive force multiplier, crit a offensive. crit increases your AA-dps by X% in average, dodge lowers the AA dps you recive by X% the numbers are a bit difference, as dodge was more powerfull, for a better comparison it should have been takeing 1/2 damage rather than non(crit= damageX2, dodge= damage/2, rather than dodge -> damage=0) hower, it stays that 25% dodge reduce the damage you take by 25%, 25%crit increase the damage yoou do by 25%.

a squishy with nor armor and hp will still die much faster than a tank with hp and armor if both have dodge, just as someone with ad+as deals moredamage with crit than one with low ad+as.

also, beeing at 1 health and dodgeing the last hit is not different to beeing on 100 health and reciving a no crit for 90 damage, which means a crit would have been deadly.

Tsugaga1 votes

Crit is a very bad stat, it's similar to dodge. Having crit changed to an auto attack damage modifier would be better. This way there is no more random lucky crits and instead every attack does reliable damage, so it's easier to play with and against. I think this also makes the stat more valuable but less OP. It also opens up new rune and build options. Players would be able to use modifier marks/quints and not suffer early game like you would with crit runes. Crit also caps at 100% but the AA modifier could go above 100%.

LilxPaprika1 votes

Crit also caps at 100% but the AA modifier could go above 100%.

Not sure how this would play out. would need to be tested since it might be op. If it is then could cap at 100% could easily be added.

so you agree? well my suggestion is a bit more of a comprise between the two. overall its still a boost. PBE worthy imo... i'd love to see how it would look like there.

how cool would it be star brawler's glove 2 pots ;p assuming you have a sona/soraka support for heals.

Tsugaga2 votes

{quoted}

Crit also caps at 100% but the AA modifier could go above 100%. Not sure how this would play out. would need to be tested since it might be op. If it is then could cap at 100% could easily be added.

so you agree? well my suggestion is a bit more of a comprise between the two. overall its still a boost. PBE worthy imo... i'd love to see how it would look like there.

Going above 100% wouldn't be OP, crit attacks can already reach about 290-300% damage with IE and crit damage runes. Going over 100% would also require giving up some other stats.

R1102 votes

A brawlers's gloves start wouldn't happen because it's in every way inferior to a longsword start that has: a) An extra potion. b) More damage, at lvl 1 with ~50AD gloves would give you 4 extra autoattack damage while longsword gives 10AD that also benefits AD ratio's on skills.

Arkna1 votes

My only issue with increasing the reliability of critical damage is that it's a near universal buff to the early midgame of ADCs, which wouldn't be a problem if I trusted the then needed defensive item re-balance to turn out well.

LilxPaprika1 votes

its a bit of both tbh, not necessarily a buff. if your versus an adc you'll have more understanding as to how much damage you can take. Like sometimes I might hold my flash versus an adc thinking they can't take me down (first few hits don't crit). then they crit twice and half my hp drops then ult you and your dead. Seeing their damage potential from the get go will let you know whether to fight or flight.

Sire Hippington4 votes

there power stays statisically the same. it's just no more a matter of luck if you die or not. if anything, it's more a nerf for adc. Right now, most adc do 1-3 AAs, if they gain a crit in them and thus drop you low, they go allin to finish you off, if they don't they just back off and stay save. It's also horrible to tank 5 shots from an IE rush caitlin and not even loose half your half, and then her passive proc crits for over half of your life. you can't really tell if it's a good idea to all in or not as the outcome is mostly rng based, it would be much easier to face adc without the random crit of death.

if adc still seem to strong(i honestly think they are already to strong as it is), numbers can get reduced.

Arkna1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mxbqhyhj,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-03-24T13:54:36.441+0000)

there power stays statisically the same. it's just no more a matter of luck if you die or not. if anything, it's more a nerf for adc.

Reliability of power is just as important as power itself. Your system won't make them stronger as far as raw numerical power goes, but you have increased the floor of that power by making it reliable.

Sire Hippington2 votes

if anything, the rng part actually makes crit more powerfull than the %amp, as you have the chance off bursting your enemie down befor the rng can even out. Ive seen more than enough trades that started with 2 crits from an IE, it doesn't matter if the next 8 don't crit, your enemie is already so low that he can't stay in fight, and he can rely on you not getting any crits for the next 8 hits. If you don't crit and feel like you won't win that trade, you usually can back off rather easily as adc.

if it wasn't for the lucky 'burst', IE wouldn't be a very apealing item to rush compared tp BT or BotrK.

WEANUS PEANUS1 votes

Why not just remove crit and just add more AD to items that had crit...

I see what you're saying OP but it's just a Rabadon's passive for auto attacks.

Sire Hippington2 votes

the difference is that it only applys to AAs, not skills with aa-scaleings. A talon with an ad-rabbadon would be pretty damn terrifying.

LilxPaprika2 votes

well the difference is crit will identifies more with marksmen/auto attack champions. while ad identify with champions like riven that use spells that scale with ad to do damage. difference between crit and ad is crit only works with auto attack.

The5lacker1 votes

Just porting all of the current crit chance into % Damage amplification is a terrible idea for two reasons.

  1. Crit is currently balanced around its unreliability early game to dissuade people from buying it early. Making it a constant threat would have to increase its cost, hurting ADCs in the long run.

  2. Infinity Edge becomes a damage amplification...amplification item. Which is ludicrous.

Really, items as a whole need a ground-up rework, with a number of vestigial stats removed and items more keenly defined for their roles. For example, instead of Crit Chance, we'd have a Unique Passive - Critical Strikes, which would increase basic attack damage by 33%, or by 50% if you own another item with Critical Strikes. That way AA reliant champions would still have a way of keeping themselves relevant late game, while arbitrary crit chance eating up my power budget on items like Trinity Force can go the way of Dodge Chance.

LilxPaprika1 votes

actually ie will do less overall damage since it only applies to crits. come to think of it it might be a nerf. which to some who think adc's are a tad overpowered would be welcomed. Unless is is incorporated into the equation

when i wrote:

you could use the new +crit %dmg runes.

in my first post this comment was misleading and wrong. In fact +crit damage% will stay unaffected. since you still have to crit someone someone first it won't affect your regular hits.

there's no reason to dissuade people from buying any stat be it crit early game or lifesteal etc all stats are already balanced through cost.

Sire Hippington3 votes
  1. Crit is already a damage amplification, so IE is already a amplification amplification
  2. Crit isn't bought early because of rng, but because it's a damage amp, and if you don't have any damage to beginn with, theres not much in amping it. A Brawler's is 8% more ad in terms of aa-dps, so even with 100 ad, a longsword would give more aa dps for less gold while also granting more damage on ad-scaling skills. The only reason why IE is rushed is that the lucky crit can win a trade with the first hit. And cause IE+PD/Shiv is the best midgame spike for dps. As a single item, A BotrK would give more dps and even a BT + dagger or longsword(to match IEs goldcost) would grant same all-in and better sustain in between trades.
Arkna1 votes

To clarify, since people don't seem to be getting the point.

League uses psuedo-rng for critical hits. The exact mechanics of the system aren't available to players, but it serves to prevent "runs" of crits/non-crits. With 25% crit, generally 1 in 4 attacks will critically strike, but it's still possible even with PRNG to get no crits or more than one. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume you have 3 possible results from a string of 4 attacks. 0 crits, 1 crit, and multiple crits. PRNG weights your results towards 1 crit. Your system, essentially, removes the "no crit" result from the table, establishing the old average result as the new minimum result, but does nothing to affect the "multiple crits" result.

For example, let's say you have a 25% chance of getting no crits or multiple crits (we'll use two for our example), and a 50% chance of getting 1 crit. That's 400, 500, 500, and 600 damage, on average, in 4 strings of 4 attacks for an average damage output of 500 total.

Now, in your system, you can't deal the "no crit" equivalent of 400 damage. So with a 50% chance of getting 1 crit, and a 25% chance of getting 2 or none, your results are 500 damage, 537 damage, 537 damage, and 600 damage, for an average damage output of 543 total.

You didn't raise the maximum possible result, just the minimum, which is just as important overall.

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