Please add Scaling Mana Regen to Tier 2 stat runes

Illabethe·Sep 3, 2019·5 votes·5,571 views

They added CDR and attack speed.

It wouldn't hurt to add something like 1.25 to 4 Mana regen as a Tier 2 Rune.....

Just a thought.

34 Comments

Divin1tySep 3, 20192 votes

I want Pen Runes back then.

IllabetheSep 3, 20191 votes

You have it in the form of a Tier two ability rune..... and buffed item 3147 and buffed item 3142 and the addition of item 3814 .....

Mana is a primary reason mages aren't a mid thing right now (often successful, anyways). They're forced to either take Manaflow Band (there are more useful runes) or lose the lane by default, because their auto attack range is lower than opponent attack range.

Mana nerfs were considered around the Support role, not because mids had infinite mana.

Divin1tySep 3, 20193 votes

{quoted}

You have it in the form of a Tier two ability rune.

That you can use on Assassins, Mages and ADCs. On GP I need Flash, TP or a Backport to procc it. Lol.

.... and buffed and buffed and the addition of .....

They cost gold and are Items, I want a Rune back, just like you. Otherwise yOu CaN bUy item 1004 item 3802

IllabetheSep 3, 20192 votes

That's just the thing: Many Mages right now can't even farm mid because item 3802 isn't enough mana to compete with small cost AD's or Small cost adcs, or Faster regenning Energy comps.

What I'm asking for is the option to sacrifice 9 AP for Mana Regen. Lethality is not even in the same ballpark, nor a sacrifice.

Handy Sandy Sep 3, 20195 votes

Many Mages right now can't even farm mid because isn't enough mana to compete with small cost AD's or Small cost adcs, or Faster regenning Energy comps.

You only think this because you only play mages. Mages can farm fine, stop spamming abilities. It's near impossible to go oom with item 3802 until you're reaching level 12+

IllabetheSep 3, 20191 votes

No. I'm directly comparing Lethality/AD, and Mag Pen/AP to the utility of Mana regen.

If you had a choice of AD or Lethality, they both comparably are going to affect your champ the same way, except one is going to become the "must have" while the other is 100% obsolete.

If you had a choice between AP and Mag Pen, one would become the "must have" and the other would be 100% obsolete.

RyzeReworkSep 3, 20191 votes

Lethality items are pretty trash. 3k gold for 55 ad? A seekers arm gaurd negates a dusk blade. And energy based champions arent quiet as op as your thinking execpt akali. Mana based champions have sustained damage and burst. While assassins only have burst execpt Akali I also dont see mages running out of mana unless they are harassing on cd.

IllabetheSep 3, 20191 votes

Ever try to mid Morg? Also, those mages are taking Manaflow Band. I want the choice between using Nullifying or Nimbus Cloak like everyone else. I just want to sacrifice something different for it.

RyzeReworkSep 4, 20191 votes

yeah but the reason is because manaflow band is so good. its taken on ad champs too because of how good it is. way better than orb or cloak and yes i actually have played morgana mid a bit and dont have mana issues

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

You've never really tried Cloak have you? It's a must have on Morgana if you want to prosper with her.

RyzeReworkSep 5, 20191 votes

why would i need that when shes got a 400 magic shield built into her kit not to mention u dont ever have to interact with the lane to win as morgana literally just pool and back off lol, and how many matchups is cloak good in? prolly a handfull of them?

IllabetheSep 5, 20191 votes

You really don't know what runes are matched up with Manaflow Band lmfao.

Nimbus Cloak: When ulting, After a small Delay, gain 100 Move speed for 2 seconds.

It activates on Morgana's Ult.... It allows her to dodge almost any skill shot, chase any runners and guarantee kills on her ult, rather than risking losing them.....

RyzeReworkSep 6, 20191 votes

Yeah not to mention she already has increased speed while ulting and it slows enemies

IllabetheSep 6, 20191 votes

Her Ult move speed buff is small, the slow is small, and it's about the fact it's a flat amount amped by her ult. You can dodge skill shots as fast as she moves with it, or duel skirmishers who would normally kill you before second ult proc.

Even with Nimbus, some people can almost get away.

RyzeReworkSep 6, 20191 votes

But a slow and a speed buff adds up lol not to mention her winrate mid is above 50 percent. Anyone whose ganna escape her ult is ganna escape it regardless

IllabetheSep 6, 20191 votes

Nope. 130 + extra move speed is not something they can outdash.

I can maintain distance with a Yi.

I hate to reference famous streams, but look up NB3 or FuFuu right after her rework. One of them did a video with her on Nimbus and Hexflash. Watch what happens. It's an elo-tasking surpassing build.

Daddy AntsSep 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

You have it in the form of a Tier two ability rune..... and buffed and buffed and the addition of .....

Mana is a primary reason mages aren't a mid thing right now (often successful, anyways). They're forced to either take Manaflow Band (there are more useful runes) or lose the lane by default, because their auto attack range is lower than opponent attack range.

Mana nerfs were considered around the Support role, not because mids had infinite mana.

Mids did have infinite mana though.

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

Only when Morello and Athene's were still mid items, gave mana regen + mana.

Luden's is suicidal in about 60% of mid matchups atm, because of the large investment, the counterpressure and the AD's that have become mid meta. You'll often die 3-4 times before you get it complete if you even try to stay competitive on farm.

Daddy AntsSep 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

the AD's that have become mid meta.

You do realize that 20 out of the 30 top champions for Mid lane according to u.gg for win rates are AP Mages.

6 are Assassin's.

4 are Fighters.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JXrKjzte-mid-lane-in-general?comment=0002

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

You do realize they only list 39?

And that the Assassins/Fighters are at the top of the list, save for Ahri and Malzahar and Swain? And that Aatrox has a better win rate than half the mids?

And that Irelia's win rate is influenced by her OVERALL win rate and champ complexity, not by her lane performance?

And that Akali's win rate is derived from her OVERALL win rate and champion Complexity?

"Yasuo"

Pantheon has a better win rate mid than Veigar? Xerath/Ziggs are all the way down at #17 when they are the two champions who have absolute uninteractive farm and lane dominance? Leblanc, considered one of the most broken Mids without any serious nerfs..... is way down at #33?

You're misrepresenting facts HARD. Especially since

There are 3 times as many mages as Assassins in this game.
There are 1.2 times as many mages as fighters in this game.
In your list alone, 26 out of 39 champions are MAGES (Can you say disproportionate weighting?)

(and yeah. the list doesn't even include Morgana/Zyra/Sona/Karma, suggesting they've been shoved out of mid entirely as their pick rate isn't worth mentioning; It also doesn't mention Lucian/Ezreal mid, Camille, Gangplank, Gragas, Heimerdinger, Jax, Karthus, Malphite (REALLY popular right now), Riven...... all of whom get played mid.)

Friggin TF, the Global nuker...... is at 48%.

Pierce The VealSep 3, 20191 votes

I want a lot of my stat runes back. MS Quints, energy regen (as troll as people made it out to be), and a few others.

Modl Ryden lSep 3, 20191 votes

[deleted]

IllabetheSep 3, 20192 votes

There was a very similar mastery in the old tree. It's nothing new. Also, it only does so after you've charged it, which in some matchups doesn't happen until you have a 50-60 CS deficit.

On the other hand, Riot purely nerfed Mana regen across the board on MAGES by about 40% regen rate since Season 8's start (Never touched adc's/junglers which both put Mages to shame on mana regen rates). In other words, they specifically singled out those who were considered "Mana reliant."

Meanwhile, Miss fortune will never run out of mana, Jinx will be able to spam W twice as often, Irelia can clear 10 waves without burning half her mana, Lucian can outfarm and out pressure mid.

Pierce The VealSep 3, 20191 votes

You clearly do not play MF, Jinx, Irelia, or Lucian.

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

I'm not an adc main but I do play MF, Jinx consistently enough. Irelia's not my wheelhouse. Lucian just doesn't have my aesthetics.

But I do know their mana costs, and Irelia Q was reduced to a measly 20 mana. Relentless Pursuit is only 40-10.

Lucian Mana Regen: 8.2 – 20.1 Irelia Mana Regen: 8 – 21.6 Morgana Mana Regen: 11 – 17.8 (higher min, lower max) Jinx MANA REGEN. 6.7 – 23.7

Except ofc.... every Morgana skill is 50/100/80 mana by level 5. Jinx can potentially consume mana, but only if she leaves fishbones on. W costs 50-90 mana.

If you look through mages, almost every single one has a lower base Mana regen than anyone else in the game, under the assumption that flat mana is better.

But, when your opponent has a 100% wave clear mechanism, or a way to 100% pressure your lane (Yasuo/Irelia), Mana regen is FAR more important.

There's a reason I main Morgana Jungle. It has mana regen, and doesn't autolose CS in lane, because some AD has much harder and faster waveclear than she does, with her whopping 420 auto attack range.

Pierce The VealSep 4, 20191 votes

So what you mean to tell me that they cannot spam their spells, but they can manage their mana?

By all rights, I agree that adcs should have more mana limitations, but saying that they can spam however they want and not run out of mana is simply not true.

Their mana costs:

Lucian: 50-90, 70, 40-0, 100. He’ll go through his mana bar pretty easily. Irelia: 20, 70-90, 50, 100. Consider that for her passive she has to use Q for lane sustain as well as for her passive (which requires 5 uses). 20x5=100. It having a 20 mana cost is because it doesn’t have the same impact as a 100 mana spell on a single cast. Mf: 43-55, 30, 80, 100. With a base mana of 325, she’ll also empty her mana fairly easily if she actually uses her skills. Jinx: 20/aa, 50-90, 70, 100. Base mana? 245.

Morgana: base mana 340, gaining 60 per level. You shouldn’t be spamming Q or E on her. Her W is intended to clear waves quickly but mana mages and carries do not spam their spells to push waves. Neither do energy champions because being caught without energy is suicide. Not to mention she has an excellent time stacking manaflow band.

She’s furthermore sitting at a 53% winrate in midlane. I don’t know what more to say or what more you want.

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

But they can spam. Irelia CAN SPAM. Jinx CAN SPAM W (Not Q). Lucian CAN SPAM Relentless Pursuit, as long as he's making auto attacks (cooldown).

And yes. Irelia's is FAR more impactul for 5 leaps than for 1 100 Mana cast! Hers 100% Secures KILLS, and after about 8 minutes of the game, she never runs out of mana at all. Morg's W can erode minions, but 2-3 will always be at risk of collateral damage, especially if someone like Yasuo, Irelia, Lucian are pressuring the lane. Her early damage is garbage.

Her 53% is because she becomes a secondary support, not because she is carrying. Her lane phase is terrible mid. And, I'm simply referring to the option to trade 9 AP for some mana regen. Atm, if we get one of the above in lane, you have no choice but to use skills too often. You can't get close enough to actually auto attack.

Pierce The VealSep 9, 20191 votes

And that mana regen wouldn’t be MORE toxic on the champions that have “lower mana costs” that you mentioned?

Hey, morg’s Q also singlehandedly 100% secures kills when it hits. Often, irelia, on the other hand, would only be able to use 3 Q’s on one target. She gets her E and her R. More often than not, those 5 Q’s are being used to last hit so that her passive even becomes a thing. Because, you know, she needs to use an ability on an enemy unit 5 times to get her passive up. That is why her Q mana cost is low, because it basically is tied to her passive.

Riot purposefully got rid of flat mana regen a long while back, and intentionally limited mana regen to support items.

I’m not saying any of this because I wouldn’t like mana regen runes. I really would love to have them for my lane Hecarim, Nocturne, Kha’zix, and Kayn, all of which are fairly heavily mana gated and have NO real access to mana items. My point is Riot removed them for a reason.

IllabetheSep 9, 20191 votes

Not even close to true on Q. Not enough damage to 1 shot even when heavily fed, unless the target is a REALLY SQUISHY mage whose mismanaged their shields, like Lux or Veigar, and they have the wrong shoes.

Even then, takes W, and probably the expenditure of E and R as well.

If her team's involved, and they are able to use a Q, the target was to blame, not Morg's Q; They overstepped, chased in a way where they couldn't dodge her Q. That's not Morg's kit. That's them being bad players as opponents.

We're talking about farming in regards to Irelia, and 3 Q's can DELETE someone on Irelia.

P.S. The spammable champions generally: -Only take Sorcery Secondary for Celerity and Gathering Storm, NOT for anything in the Tier 2. -Some don't even take sorcery.

So no. It wouldn't be more broken on them.

Also, as you would be sacrificing 6 AD for this rune, Jinx/Irelia would struggle with CS taking it, as it wouldn't last hit as reliably. Their average CS per game would drop by at least 30, if they took mana regen over the AD.

The Mana convo is false too: They did NOT get rid of Flat Regen; they reverted Doran's back to Flat. The reason that Base Regen was added was as a support item was because at the time, we had better mana gaining Masteries, Mana costs were lower, we had Potions, and Energy gain/free skill champions were more restricted.

Riot did not remove them for a reason. They removed them over time in 4 different seasons for entirely different reasons that had nothing at all to specifically do with mages.

That's like saying, "Riot is buffing Evelynn/Riven/Tryndamere for a reason." Or "Riot is doubling Pyke's Ult damage and gold payout for a reason."

WoonStruckSep 4, 20191 votes

They buffed mage mana pools because they nerfed mp regen.

If they were to offer more mana regen, they'd have to re-nerf mana pools.

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

I do not see a single part in Morgana's Patch History that adds Mana.

I do see where they are fluctuating her Mana Regen rates due to changes in items like item 3165 giving 100 Mana and 20% Mana on level as a meta starter...... or the change to turn item 3174 into a support item.

Here's the comprehensive changes over time to mana for Morg:

V9.5 Base mana reduced to 340 from 340.8.

V8.15 Stats Base mana regeneration reduced to 11 from 15.

Black Shield Mana cost increased to 80 from 55.

V8.9

Stats Base mana regeneration increased to 15 from 11.5

V7.24 Stats Base mana regeneration increased to 11.5 from 8.5. Mana regeneration growth reduced to 0.4 from 0.8.

(Wash)

#V5.22

Stats Mana regen increased to 8.5 from 6. (The patch they removed mana potions, Doran's ring was given Base Mana Regen bonus rather than Flat regen, making it far weaker on nerfed rates, AP items were given AP values - later removed - in exchange for Mana regen/Flat Mana, Boot mod and Will of the Ancients was still in the game.... )

Don't think I need to go back further than Season 5.....

WoonStruckSep 4, 20191 votes

Where did I mention anything about Morg?

If they added a mana regen option in runes it would affect ALL champions, which includes all mages. "All champions" doesn't exclusively involve Morg last time I checked.

IllabetheSep 4, 20191 votes

You were discussing mages and claiming they were given Mana growth in exchange for Mana Regen. I'm proving you wrong.

Also, I don't care, because most people would choose 9 AP or 6 AD over 1.25- 4 Mana Regen. It's a situational rune to help compensate specific matchups.

I also forgot to mention: They also reverted Doran's to Flat regen even though they nerfed Base Regen on mages, because they were making Doran's scale off Base Regen. In other words, ANOTHER time Mana has been nerfed.