Oh, 
If spell vamp isn't fair, or at least impossible to balance because of mages that have built in healing 
, why is lifesteal considered fine when champions like 
who all have natural healing and can still build lifesteal. A form of healing mind you, that doesn't cost anything to benefit from.
TheHappyReaperz5 votesWhat is Riven's natural healing? Also, Ravenous, BT, and Vamp scepter are hardly tanky in any way. What your complaining about is sustain, not tankiness.
deadlychuck1 votesNo, it's the fact that they can get valid healing out of a single one of those items, and because of a single item combine with their natural healing, or AD shielding in riven's case, they become harder to kill than pure tanks... it just makes no fucking sense.
TheHappyReaperz3 votesExcept your still talking about sustain. Lifesteal doesn't make you tanky. It gives you sustain. The ways around it are simple. Burst, CC, and GW.
deadlychuck1 votesIt increases your effective health in a fight and gives you sustain. That's like saying spell vamp doesn't heal you, it just gave you sustain. In which case there was literally no reason to remove it.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesExcept fighters deal sustained damage, while mages deal burst. This allowed mages to be healed in large bursts, unlike the sustained rate of fighters lifesteal. The two are very different.
deadlychuck1 votesExcept most of these fighters heal in large chunks. Their damage graph output might overlap with their healing graph, but the fact is that they still heal in large chunks to a similar degree as a mage would.
Darius Q. Riven E. Renekton Q. Illoai W. Nasus Q.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesDarius, Nasus, and Illaoi are all juggernauts, not fighters, and they compensate for their lack of mobility with high damage/high sustain, combined with overall high stats. Riven is classified as a slayer, a subset of fighters, consisting of her and Yasuo. She really fits in no way with your LS argument, as her shield is more of a problem than her using lifesteal. Renekton is the only bruiser you have on this list, and his healing is meant to compliment his lane bully playstyle. Lifesteal doesn't factor with him much, since lategame he depends more on tankyness then LS to survive.
deadlychuck1 votesWhen did identity politics get into league?
I don't give a flying fuck, what you classify them as.
My point is, that full tanks are inherently less tanky than champions who are tanky and have some form of healing, due to their effective health from the healing they will gain during a fight.
Yet somehow, when these champions can still buy lifesteal to arguably make them even more tanky, it's fine. Yet riot was acting like far fewer mages who had built in healing, made it impossible to balance spell vamp. It's a bullshit excuse, and it's terrible balance.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesBecause Juggernauts aren't fighters. They are meant to be the raid bosses of the game, capable of dishing and taking mass amounts of damage. Full tanks are not less tanky than someone who has life steal. They have sustain. That doesn't make them tanky. If you CC a tank, they'll sit there and tank it. If you CC someone depending on lifesteal, they'll die. Its pretty simple.
deadlychuck1 votesExcept that you're working under the assumption that it's also acceptable that the defensive walls should die withing the span of the enemies hard CC.
For most of those champions, if there is a single moment which they aren't CCed, they get healing. That's also ignoring the champions who have the advantage of having an easier time than every tank, to dodge the hard CC, by virtue of having a dash, in which case they return to being harder to kill than a tank.
Sanctimonious3 votes has it, because he's super easy to shut down. They changed it a while back so that it scales.
is only really relevant for lane and mid game
is underpowered for a competitive grade pick. He just suffers from clear spikes.
Darius syndrome. Easier to counterplay
Super strong champion. Similar to renekton but scales slightly better
Overall, none of these had the problem of old . He sustained extremely well with 
and WOTA. The only champion i would ever consider that vlad to is 
, who is in such a nerfed state that he's negligible.
I would know, i abused the heck out of pre-rework
SNSD Sunnny1 votesad champions are much stronger drain tanks than ap champions, thats just how it is
have u seen how busted graves was before his nerfs, he was an actual drain tank that does damage
Avienal1 votesOh,
If spell vamp isn't fair, or at least impossible to balance because of mages that have built in healing
Part of the issue i'd say is more of Rito being lazy to properly nerf particular champions hard. I still feel that gets too much lee'way by having a Q with such a strong life'steal per champion hit' and how much armor penetration his E gets to grant out as a passive combined with his natural gravitation
towards combined with his bleed passive lets him easily pull out some strong damage harass, natural itemization to beef tanking and his way of easily resolving his 'mobility' issue that juggernauts should normally have by using Black Cleaver's 'Rage' passive and Deadman's plate increased move speed thru the stack build up till he pulls an Auto attack. Which basically means unless he isn't perma slowed constantly, he can run around super fast, be super tankie with alot of health and shred alot of armor with relative ease to destroy stuff.
They could easily resolve the 'Drain tank' issue by forcing particular AD champions to gravitate more towards NEEDING to be built tank to thrive or NEEDING to be built towards a Damage dealer to thrive, Champions who get these easy gravitations by just simply building and 
default picking could easily be resolved if they make Deadman's plate have alot less padding on what it brings, maybe either cut down its armor or health stat hard and make black cleaver less of a pocket pick item and maybe lean it towards more of a AD item made for performing trades with your abilities and maybe gut out some of the versatility like maybe make black cleaver only affect 'your' damage and scrap the rage effect so the user has to be more reliant on being able to do his trade and not use the 'Rage passive giving +20 flat move speed for 2 whole seconds' to easily let them stay in range of the target to spaz out a Darius Q axe hit, grab them with E, slow them with W and then auto them a few down and finish with R if said darius is already level 6.
Champions with combo rotations seem to always cause a problem on this end for me at least, whether its 
and many others, regardless of what type they are, it feels like the champions turn into such easy BS cause of a simple norm rotation for them, not much for 'creativity' in how their abilities can be used in a different order for better effectiveness, it just simply matters on them pulling the same rotation whether its to get EZ harass off or just plain one ability rotate kill the target even when you both have equal CS, no kills/deaths/assists, they can basically erase you regardless or just follow it up with a EZ 2 or 3 auto attacks while you try to get away and the enemy easily jumps under your tower to finish you off and can walk right out of it before they die.
[slayer-jinx-unamused]
At the very least it might make people gravitate more to grabbing 
and eventually to 
if it was easier to have the actual difference between a tank who thrives thru life steal or health regen or a champion who just high stack health and/or armor to just blunt all damage taken to them so its more of a choice on grabbing items to kill lifesteal, healing and regen or for just simple armor/magic-resist penetration. Would be kind of neat if we had a new item that uses to build into a weapon more focused towards health tank busting on top of retarded regen/lifesteal combinations since it seems 
is the common pick to deal with pudge tanks and we lack anything outside of 
for AP champions to bust the same kind of super health and melts squishie champions with ease still champion types.
Tukan Tonko1 votesHow about 
?
He sure doesn't have lifesteal in his kit but let's be honest, he is the worst one. He can go And he has damage as well as 1/2 HP per hit lifesteal. Now get 
- damage, damage reduction, movement speed. He don't have in-build lifesteal but he got defenses with his E, which scaler greatly! So now, let's get 
So they can't burst us. 
So it's harder to CC us and 
/ 
so we are more tanky / we get tenacity.
Now, I will get to the point. You are talking about champions which are not meant to be tanks yet they can be even harder to kill without building full tank items. Right? So Graves is a great example! You get great damage, you get a bit of crit as well. And you have 2 defensive items and boots. At this point, you can be considered an off-tank. But! Since you can heal for 1/2 of your HP with one hit, and you can also heal from abilities (ehm, ehm, spellvamp? ehm) while building up your E defensive stats you become a tank. Yes, you can shut down champions like this with hard CCs/burst. but how do you want kill him? You can't burst him so easily because of Sterak's proc, you can't CC him so easily because of banshees/boots and he now also have a lot of armor and magic resist! Not to mention he needs only half a second to hit you and get half of his health back, even more if you procced Sterak's! It's really, really hard, and try to do it in teamfight, where you also have 4 other people running around, hitting you as well. Well, at least you can get 
/ and 
is godly in this case. But if you don't kill him he will just go to nearest creep and lifesteal it back in 2 seconds and come back for you. xD