Boards›Gameplay

Skirmisher Class Wide Changes

Meep Man··5 votes·963 views

Yasuo Yasuo

  • Base Health increased to 598 from 518

Passive- Way of the Wanderer

  • The flat shield now procs upon Yasuo damaging an enemy champion

W- Wind Wall Wind Blade REWORKED

  • For the next 5/5.25/5.5/5.75/6 seconds, Yasuo's Steel Tempest strikes will destroy projectiles they touch and his basic attacks will destroy projectiles 275 units in the direction he is facing. However, Yasuo cannot critical strike for the duration. After 2.5 seconds, this ability can be reactivate to end the effect early.
  • Cool Down reduced to 17/16/15/14/13 seconds from 26/24/22/20/18 seconds (starting when the effect ends)
  • Cool Down is now Static, but is also now reduced by 2 seconds for every projectile destroyed, up to a maximum of 10 seconds reduced

I don't know why they didn't make this how it was at first. If anyone remembers Yasuo's teaser, it was a leaf falling on his sword and then it being sliced in half from the sharpness of the sword. Wind Wall has been replaced by Wind Blade, a mechanic that causes Yasuo to be able slice in half projectiles with his basic attacks. It is a much more mobile version of his current projectile deleting ability, but it now feels less instant and like you could possibly outplay Yasuo as a projectile heavy character since previously he could just throw down a windwall and make life much harder nearly innately. I also made his shield passive rely on him dealing damage rather than you, with slight base health compensation for him.

MasterYi Master Yi Passive- Double Strike Tempered Blade

  • Master Yi can move while basic attacking a target as long as he is moving towards the target. Yi also gains 15/20/25 Tenacity for 0.5 seconds after basic attacking a target (Levels 1/8/15)

Q- Alpha Strike REWORKED

  • Now causes Master Yi to channel for up to 5 seconds, slightly zooming out Yi's camera during the channel. During this time, all enemy units and neutral monsters within 900 units are revealed. Master Yi can then reactivate this ability to target an enemy unit within the target range for one of the strikes of this ability, with each strike dealing 30/45/60/75/90 (+55/60/65/70/75% AD) (+25% AP) and being able to critical strike for 35% increased damage. Enemy units can be targeted multiple times to cause them to be struck multiple times by this ability, but take 20% reduced damage from each subsequent strike against them. Master Yi can reactivate this ability up to 5 times over the duration. Once Master Yi finishes channeling or selects the maximum number of strikes, he will then strike each enemy unit he selected in the order in which he selected each individual strike, becoming untargetable while doing so. Master Yi will then reappear behind the enemy he selected for his final strike. This ability deals 80/85/90/95/100% increased damage to minions and monsters. Epic monsters only take 30/40/50/60/70% increased damage. Enemies that Yi can see within the range that Yi can target enemies with this ability are warned with an image of his goggles above their head. Cost: 80/90/100/110/120 mana Cool Down: 24/21.5/19/16.5/14 seconds Reveal Range: 900 Target Range: 1250/1500/1750/2000/2250 Reactivation Static Cool Down: 0.4 seconds (minimum 2 seconds to select target of every strike)

W- Meditate

  • Can no longer be interrupted by crowd control
  • Damage Reduction reduced to 30/35/40/45/50% from 50/55/60/65/70%
  • Now reduces damage from towers for full amount
  • Cool Down is now reduced by 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds every basic attack
  • Cool Down is now considered Static and cannot be reduced by CDR
  • Mana Cost increased to 75 mana from 50 mana

E- Wuju Style REWORKED

  • Passive now grants 2/4/6/8/10% increased AD as bonus AD from 10% at all ranks
  • Now causes Master Yi to appear on the opposite side of the target enemy after a 0.25 second delay, dealing 55/85/115/145/175 (+75% bonus AD) true damage to them and granting Yi Unstoppable (similar to Malphite ult or Vi ult) and 30/35/40/45/50% damage reduction during the delay. During the delay, Yi cannot perform any other actions.
  • Basic attacks reduce the cool down of this ability by 0.75 seconds and the mana cost is refunded if it kills the targeted unit. 85% of the cool down is also refunded if the unit killed was a minion or monster. Cost: 25 mana Cool Down: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 seconds Range: 550

R- Highlander

  • Cool Down reduced to 75/65/55 seconds from 85 seconds
  • Initial Duration reduced to 5/6/7 seconds from 7 seconds at all ranks
  • Multiplied Movement Speed increased to 35/50/65% from 25/35/45%

The goal here is to make Yi not as completely destroyed by crowd control while ALSO making him unable to just use and abuse on-hit effects. His Passive has been changed to make him be able to move and basic attack at the same time, but only when moving towards his target so Yi couldn't be able to kite his enemies. Alpha Strike has been changed to a pre-combat initiation move that can deal some pretty lethal damage to his target, but takes time to prime and grants his target(s) a warning before it happens. It can deal some serious damage if Yi uses all strikes on the same target, but each subsequent strike on the same target deals less damage so it is up to Yi decided whether to nuke one target or slice through multiple targets for good AoE damage. Meditate has also been changed to be unaffected by crowd control, BUT provide less damage reduction, have a static cool down (still affected by Highlander passive), and have an increased mana cost. However, it's cool down can be reduced with basic attacks. Wuju Style has also been reworked since previously made Yi even more of a stat stick. It's passive has been reduced in effectiveness early, but the active has been completely reworked. Instead of an AA steroid, it is now a miniature, in-combat Alpha Strike that allows Master Yi to constantly dash through his enemies after a brief delay. During the delay, Yi is unaffected by crowd control and gains % damage reduction. Basic attacks will reduce the cool down of the ability, and the mana cost and cool down of the ability will be refunded if it kills the unit hit. Highlander has been buffed to compensate Yi's overall reduced damage shred while in-combat, having the cool down and movement speed granted buffed. The duration has been slightly reduced at earlier ranks however to make Yi have to use it when he is about to damage enemies during ganks instead of just rushing out of no where into a lane with plenty of duration to spare.

Jax Jax

  • Basic Attack Animation Speed increased by 40%~
  • Basic Attack Range increased to 150 from 125

W- Empower

  • Base Damage reduced to 30/62.5/95/127.5/160 from 40/75/110/145/180
  • Cool Down reduced to 5/4.25/3.5/2.75/2 seconds from 7/6/5/4/3 seconds
  • Now also increases the Basic Attack Animation Speed of the empowered attack by 100%
  • Mana Cost reduced to 20 mana from 30 mana

Small changes to Jax, mainly small buffs to compensate for Fervor changes. Also made his awful basic attack animations better.

Tryndamere Tryndamere

  • Base Health per Level reduced to 90 from 98

Passive- Battle Fury REWORKED

  • No longer grants critical strike chance
  • Now causes Tryndamere's basic attacks to deal 15% of the damage dealt in a cone behind his target
  • Building Rage increases the cone damage to up to 30/32.5/35% of the damage dealt (Levels 1/8/15)

Q- Bloodlust

  • Added a (+30% bonus AD) ratio to base heal
  • Added a (+0.7% bonus AD) ratio for the heal per point of Fury consumed

W- Mocking Shout

  • Now activates after a 0.5 second delay
  • AD Reduction reduced to 20/22.5/25/27.5/30 from 20/35/50/65/80
  • Tryndamere now steals the AD reduced from enemies slowed by this ability
  • Slow increased to 35/45/55/65/75% from 30/37.5/45/52.5/60%

E- Spinning Slash

  • The cool down is now increased by 50% if Tryndamere does not spin towards an enemy champion that is within 1250 units of him

R- Undying Rage

  • No longer makes Tryndamere immune to going below 30/50/70 health
  • Now causes Tryndamere to instead revive after a 2.5/2/1.5 second delay with 25/30/35% max health and gain 30/40/50% damage reduction and 50 Tenacity for 1.5 seconds every time he is killed within the next 5/5.5/6 seconds
  • Note: Can still be used while under the effects of crowd control

Big changes for Tryndamere. Riot has stated they don't like early game crits, so that's being pulled from Tryndamere's kit. Instead, his passive now causes him to cleave with his basic attacks, giving him innate AoE damage with his basic attacks. This damage scales with crits and stacks with other effects. The more Rage he has, the more damage the cleave will deal. I made his Q heal worth using late game and changed his Mocking Shout to have less absolute counter cases. It is now similar to Trundle's Q in that it steals the AD from enemies it slows, giving Tryndamere up to 100-150 bonus AD from it if every enemy champion on the enemy team is facing away from him. His E is not quite as good of an ability for split push escapes since it's cool down is now increased if he uses it to spin away from enemy champions. Finally, his R has been reworked to be less of a CC check on the enemy team and feel more Undying.

Fiora Fiora

  • Base Health increased to 600 from 550
  • Base Health per Level reduced to 80 from 85
  • Base Attack Damage reduced to 55 from 60
  • Base Attack Damage per Level increased to 3.75 from 3.3

W- Riposte

  • Cool Down increased to a flat 25 seconds from 24/22/20/18/16 seconds
  • Cool Down is now reduced by 50% if it reduces any damage or negates any effects
  • Base Damage reduced to 50/100/150/200/250 from 90/130/170/210/250

Small changes to Fiora. She deals overall less damage early game for more durability in lane in base stats. Riposte has been changed to reward enemies who play around it and reward Fiora for using it correctly. It's base damage has also been reduced since it was strangely high early game for unknown reason.

Irelia Irelia E- Equilibrium Strike

  • Base Damage reduced to 75/95/115/135/155 from 80/120/160/200/240
  • Added a (+65% bonus AD) ratio
  • Now always stuns
  • Disable Duration changed to 1.25 seconds from 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 second(s)
  • Now deals 1% increased damage for every 10 more flat current health Irelia's target has than her, up to a 100% damage increase at 1000 flat current health difference
  • Mana Cost increased to 65/70/75/80/85 mana from 50/55/60/65/70 mana
  • Cool Down increased to 12/11/10/9/8 seconds from 8 seconds at all ranks
  • Range reduced to 350 from 425
  • Now also applies on-hit effects and heals Irelia for 30/35/40/45/50% of the damage dealt while Irelia is outnumbered

To end off the list, Irelia's E has been changed to not feel like it will either be awful or amazing to use. Previously it rewarded Irelia for losing fights, which didn't feel right. Instead, it now grants more damage and always stuns her target, making it feel better overall to use. Also, if her Passive says she is outnumbered, it will also apply on-hit effects and heal her for the damage dealt. The cool down and mana costs of the ability have been increased and the range decreased to compensate the changes made.

item 3124 Guinsoo's Rageblade

  • Now grants 45% attack speed
  • No longer grants attack speed per stack
  • Combine Cost reduced to 825 from 875 (Total Cost reduced to 3550 from 3600)

That whole stat trade felt really weird when building Guinsoo's so it now innately grants 45% attack speed instead of granting 48% attack speed at max stacks of the passive. The combine cost has been slightly reduced to compensate the slight attack speed reduction.

I made these changes to change the Skirmisher class as a whole to feel like you are actually being outplayed when you face them instead of just feeling like whatever you throw at them is going to be negated somehow. I also changed Guinsoo's since it has a decent tie to the Skirmisher class.

15 Comments

Anonagon3 votes

I don't think Skirmishers as a class need an update, and while a lot of the champions you talk about need work (Trynd, Yi, Irelia, and to a lesser extent Jax), the work they need is out of the scope of any kind of class update. Trynd and Irelia need full VGUs (and Irelia isn't even a Skirmisher). Yi needs a major gameplay update, and Jax could use both a VU and a minor gameplay update. None of the work these champions need is related to the health of the class as a whole, considering that the rest of the class is the best class in the game in terms of both having unique gameplay patterns with counterplay and having distinct identies and unique reasons to pick them.

I feel kind of bad just saying "eh they need bigger work" especially when Yi and Trynd seem to be the bulk of your post, but that's just how I see it. I like some of the ideas for Trynd as kind of buffer changes to make him healthier until he gets bigger work (particularly the removal of innate crit and the W changes)

I really like the idea for the Yasuo passive change, but not if it replaces current functionality. What I mean by this is that it should proc on taking AND on dealing damage, not one or the other. If it only procs when he deals damage, then you can't poke it off before he engages.

I don't think Wind Wall is actually a spell that needs to be removed. It could certainly be toned down somehow (cough cough duration cough) but I think its a much more elegant design than your proposal. Just think about an actual combat situation - to block a projectile with basic attacks, there needs to be something Yasuo can auto between him and the projectile. That's not going to be the case most of the time, meaning he has to use his Q to block anything reasonably. Your version is simply far to unreliable to function as a major defensive tool for a melee DPS. That's not to say the current version is perfect though (cough duration cough hitbox cough).

As for Fiora, I don't think her earlygame damage needs toned down, or her earlygame health increased really. I don't see any problems with the way she current operates in lane. The Riposte changes are... eh. The damage is high relative to other rank 1 spells because of its huge cooldown, the ease of dodging it, the fact that its magic damage on a physical champion, and the fact that its maxed last (or second, depending on matchup). The cooldown changes are universally a buff to Fiora, unless her player is braindead, and I don't think you intended that change to be a buff.

Astôlfo2 votes

I skimmed through it, but as for Fiora's Riposte change, I think the 50% reduction should be limited to only blocking champion abilities, item abilities, champion/item passives (any that'd apply that Fiora's parry blocks), Summoner Spells (instantaneous reaction/prediction can block things like Ignite/Exhaust), and any other CC otherwise. Right now, 50% reduction on any damage means they could spam it a lot more often meaning an effective 12.5s CD by just parrying autos every now and then potentially, or just using it to block every single even mildly unlikable ability, because autoattacks would count too. Parrying an autoattack that'd kill you (when you have low health) is fine, but I don't think that autoattacks should trigger the 50% reduction.

Doozku1 votes

Looks interesting, not a big fan of the Tryndamere changes though. That cleave looks cool but might mess up some csing. One of the big problems with his current kit is his W. It is a pretty unhealthy ability which is an example of a false choice. Basically if you are slowed by running away then you might think to turn around and fight him, but with his ultimate and the Ad that you lose it is always a bad choice to fight him, especially with the RNG. This rework doesn't fix that, so instead I would suggest to replace it with a new ability that makes him less sticky but perhaps more interesting to play. All in all though this looks interesting. The yasuo change is cool but it might be too difficult and honestly confusing when you start to include skillshots like Velkoz W or how it would interact with abilites like Donger's rockets.

Meep Man1 votes

Idea is that Tryndamere wants to go Jungle instead now since it would be an overall healthier place for him to go. His clear time would be pretty great with the cleave effect and the increased healing when building AD makes him have better sustain in the Jungle.

Also, don't overthink the Yasuo Wind Blade mechanic. If the hitbox of a projectile and his Q overlap, the projectile is destroyed. If the projectile is within the listed range when he executes basic attack damage, it is destroyed. Exactly the same as the current Windwall, just that it is only there for a split second when his Q and basic attacks would deal damage.

Doozku1 votes

Not sure whether it would be a good idea to completely change where the champion is played. Since trynd doesn't get early crit anymore he's going to want to farm more for his items, basically turning him into the new old Master Yi.

Wind blade is actually badass tho, he might lose some outplays since he can't do as much damage while his deflecting. Gotta consult a Yasuo main on that one tho.

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

I don't mind what you did with fiora, I like that it rewards us for using it properly. And im glad about yasuo, As for yi, you gave him a ton of damage reduction and he'll build ad and still be tanky, oo eh, looks good overall

Meep Man1 votes

Was the intention for Yi to be durable while building AD in a similar sense to other more current Skirmishers. That way he has less intention to build Tank.

Radiant Seraph1 votes

Guinsoo changes are great, and so are Tryndamere's.

I'm not a fan of Yasuo's changes though, the remedy could be worse than the disease. What if we kept Wind Wall, but it only reduces the damage of the projectile until last rank, and we made the wall always as wide as rank 1? Or that he only blocked one projectile with a precise strike, instead of making him camping behind the wall. Also, a Yasuo can still wreck without critting, and this change could encourage tanky builds.

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Your posts are the good shit, dude.

I wanna do one of these for battlemages, since they all are pretty much the same deal.

Or re-do marksmen. That would be fun.

Meep Man1 votes

Thanks bro.

Yeah, Battle Mages could use some work overall. Looking at: Vladimir Ryze AurelionSol Karthus Rumble

They all just provide some damage with minor CC. They all have just one thing that sets them apart (Shielding, Sustain, Root, Global Damage, Roaming) but they all in general are just Magic Damage Cannons. They aren't as big an issue as some other classes (Divers, Vanguards, etc.) but they could use some looking at.

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Don't forget Swain too.

I'd like to see Brand become more of a DPS mage, too. He doesn't really have a niche in burst mages besides "killing everyone midgame when they group".

But I am biased, since they're my favorite subclass

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Big Lincoln1 votes

i don't like these changes at all

yasuo's shield change is a terrible idea, it punishes you for making a trade without taking damage in return

yi's entire theme is that he'll hit you with a million cuts and you've pretty much entirely removed that from his kit. in fact, almost all synergy with any items other than flat AD is gone; early game made even worse. why would i ever pick this champion with the changes you've suggested?

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

u should work at riot. i dot understand all the changes. but a lot of them i like or at least have a good direction to a less feast of famine gameplay

GULAG 4 U1 votes

I like master yi's passive changes, but I dislike everything else. Especially the Q changes.

Rockm Sockm1 votes

Why wastw time on Irelia amd Flora just had a massive rework.

Yi should ve removed from game.

Come back when yoy ha e Aatrox updated.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Meep Man

Rename Darius' Bloodrage to Noxian Might
Gameplay101 comments
311
votes
Would Anyone Be Interested in More "Peak of Power" Legendary Skins?
Story, Art, & Sound271 comments
194
votes
"Mages Are Getting Less and Less AP Every Patch"
Memes & Games117 comments
177
votes
We Need to Start Redeeming What Has Been Lost, Not Bringing in More New
Gameplay202 comments
163
votes
Riot Is Adding All These Highly Requested Things...
Gameplay146 comments
161
votes
Can Nashor's Tooth Be Nashor's Tooth?
Story, Art, & Sound75 comments
141
votes