Can cull get a small buff?

IllllllIIIIlllll·Jan 2, 2016·42 votes·3,654 views

It's like that item that people fooled around with at the start of preseason before they realized it was inferior to doran's blade. After stacking it for most of laning phase, they barely get the cost of the item back when they sell it again. You're better off getting a long sword + 3 pots if you want a better lategame, or a dorans blade if you want a better early game. I see it once every twenty games (being generous here because quite honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw it at all).

33 Comments

shyvJan 2, 201619 votes

i don't even see gangplank players getting it anymore, and they're greedy bastards so that's saying something lol

HayRossJan 2, 20165 votes

Because of Gangplank's weak-ass laning phase, item 2033 is by far a safer bet. Cull MIGHT be better if you're against Nasus or something where you need to push him out of lane, but otherwise, it's just taking an unnecessary risk

kasfasJan 2, 20161 votes

Also, mana crystal 3 pots is a very good start for GP. More q farm.

HayRossJan 2, 20161 votes

Or maybe a item 1027 + item 2031 which you then turn into item 2033 next back

kasfasJan 3, 20161 votes

That's useful in easy lanes, but most champs have a way of punishing GP early. 3 pots is safer and most of the time a better option.

FantasySniperJan 2, 201611 votes

Replace the AD with 15% AS and give it 5 bonus damage on-hit for minions and monsters.

morris1Jan 2, 20169 votes

I'm afraid that I've been seeing marksmen starting item 1042 item 2009 , and the scary thing is it is more viable than Cull.

KnoyleJan 2, 20161 votes

Twitch

fasegaJan 2, 20169 votes

item 1083 should build into Sword of the Occult just like item 1082 builds into item 3041 . It would get the item the same niche of the Dark Seal by allowing AD champs to get an aggressive item in a kill lane.

Jean GenieJan 2, 20162 votes

rip sword of the occult never forget item 3070

PaletongueJan 2, 20166 votes

omg I literally forgot this item existed after the first week of preseason.

Thanks for the reminder, OP!

Sky of SmilesJan 2, 20163 votes

I actually use it vs lanes with no or low kill pressure i.e. Soraka .

bradJan 2, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sky of Smiles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MrOxx7t4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-02T08:57:52.368+0000)

I actually use it vs lanes with no or low kill pressure i.e. .

are u kidding with soraka u can fucking go hard all the time and it doesnt matter if u win or lose the trade because ur gonna be full hp in 5 seconds

soraka is the ultimate kill pressure lane

Hyrum GraffJan 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MrOxx7t4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-02T10:13:27.874+0000)

are u kidding with soraka u can fucking go hard all the time and it doesnt matter if u win or lose the trade because ur gonna be full hp in 5 seconds

soraka is the ultimate kill pressure lane

Well, depends on the adc. Soraka-Draven, yeah, there's some pressure there. Soraka/vayne, not as much, since vayne has little ability to aggress on her own.

Sky of SmilesJan 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MrOxx7t4,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-02T13:20:20.102+0000)

Well, depends on the adc. Soraka-Draven, yeah, there's some pressure there. Soraka/vayne, not as much, since vayne has little ability to aggress on her own.

Well, its not just the comp so much as the timing window you get depending on how you cycle/time your abilities/CDs. Games where I'm having issues vs Soraka isn't really because of Soraka so much as it is with the ADC and in such cases it doesn't really matter if it was Support Soraka or Support Galio .

My Waifu VanillaJan 3, 20162 votes

I am 90% sure he means he is VS Soraka so there is little to no chance HE is getting a kill in that lane.

WoodakoodashoodaJan 2, 20162 votes

The problem is, is the effort required to gain even a small amount of bonus gold from creeps while the bonus AD and minor healing is inferior to the stats provided by Doran's Blade.

Completing and selling Cull nets the player 580 gold. The item initially costs 450 gold. The profit from the inferior starting item is only 130 gold. The lost gold from a Doran's Blade should a player ever reach or near their final build is 270.

The late game gold difference between Doran's Blade and Cull is 400.

Now, the alternative to either of these is starting Short Sword and Pots. The gold lost from this start is a mere 150 only because of the potions and that can hardly be considered a loss because of the early sustain potions provide.

I personally avoid buying Cull as a starting item. It is only when I am clearing waves quickly that I opt for it at all because I'll be able to clear 100 CS quickly and painlessly. You can only benefit from its passive once throughout any given game anyway.

junglerboy16Jan 2, 20162 votes

Cull needs to give at least 3 gold per minion and 400 gold on reaching 100 for it to be remotely competitive with Doran's blade or Longsword start. The stats you pay for are abysmal, so in the early game you're actually making up a roughly 350 gold stat deficit (because Cull is hyper inefficient while D-blade is hyper stat efficient). When you sell it, you lose another 270 gold in order to gain a net gold bonus of 130 gold. THAT IS PATHETIC. You literally spend the whole early game at a disadvantage for a pathetic 130 gold reward after 100 minions.

In order for it to be worthwhile it has to keep the bad early game stats (otherwise there would be no reason to not take it instead of D-blade) but the gold reward has to be significantly improved to compensate for the massive stat deficit you start with and the huge hit you take when selling it back to the shop. If it gave 3 gold per minion and 400 gold for hitting 100, it would give a net gold return of 430 gold, which is fair after the amount of time and early game strength that you have to sacrifice to buy the item in the first place.

RoranaJan 2, 20161 votes

I don't think it is as bad as everyone thinks it is, its just a niche starting item.

Hyrum GraffJan 2, 20161 votes

If I buy it, it's usually as a 2nd item in lanes that are too hard to build towards my next item in but not quite hard enough that I want double dorans.

Just Blame JennyJan 2, 20161 votes

Same for me.

Cull is the "I had to back because of a bad early trade/gank but I don't have enough gold to buy anything lol" item for me.

Captain AishiJan 2, 20161 votes

I never bought it because the moment I saw the stats of the item I realised that it was such garbage that even in it's best case scenario, it was still inferior to doran's blade or longsword in the stats that it allowed you to have at any point in the game... preseason 6's poachers knife ^^;

Yuumi or LoseJan 2, 20161 votes

Kinda reminds me of hunters potion. Everyone picked it up at the start of preseason and then everyone realized it was bad and better off going a jungle item with three pots. Or even buyinmg a refillable potion and not upgrading it.

Robbit MangJan 2, 20161 votes

IMO the item is a bad idea and avarice blade needs to come back

Rip bank plank

My Waifu VanillaJan 3, 20162 votes

RIP Philo stone+Avarice+HoG and rolling in the money as GP.

Sky of SmilesJan 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MrOxx7t4,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2016-01-03T02:04:13.647+0000)

RIP Philo stone+Avarice+HoG and rolling in the money as GP.

/salute legendary BankPlank

Mal the RedJan 3, 20161 votes

When it comes down to it. Cull is an investment.

Once you gained all the Gold you can from it, you can sell it for a net profit.

I can't say the same about Doran's Blade once it's outlived it's usefulness.

Neither item builds into anything either.

Sky of SmilesJan 3, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mal the Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MrOxx7t4,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-01-03T05:31:00.980+0000)

When it comes down to it. Cull is an investment.

Once you gained all the Gold you can from it, you can sell it for a net profit.

I can't say the same about Doran's Blade once it's outlived it's usefulness.

Neither item builds into anything either.

I look at it like this:

You're good at CS'ing
You're gonna make it a safe lane (Top mains know what I mean)
You can complete your initial core item faster for a quick powerspike in upcoming team fight/group mid game

Imagine Vayne completing item 3153 (3400g) faster than Caitlyn completes item 3031 (3800g) even though Caitlyn is up like 30CS (~600gold). Why? Because the item 1083 popped for 300g which is equivalent to like 15CS (~2 waves - 1 minute). That extra minute can make or break a game. . . . . 2nd example: Irelia vs Shen Irelia starts and completes item 3078 faster for mid game team fight. The offensive stats offered in lane by vs item 1055 is really minuscule in safe lanes.

BaloSaarJan 3, 20161 votes

Increase the damage or heal or something. Or like 'The Dark Seal" increase the healing from potions.

When Cull is fully stacked, change it to "Sated Cull" and increase the sell price. or make the passive give 2 gold per minion kill, and give 500 gold when it is fully stacked.

Just a couple ideas