Thematically, Vladimir should be a control mage of some sorts. Right now he's just... weird.

SaltyToplaneGoat··25 votes·2,653 views

Vladimir was the very first 6300 champ I bought with IP when I started this game in season 2, so you can be sure that when it comes to our hemomancy master of blood related puns I know what I am talking about.

But his identity is kinda all over the place. He's a tank but lacks relevant cc. He's a mage but lacks both front-up burst or the cc of mages like Lissandra or Taliyah. And thematically he's not exactly there either - given how powerful hemomancy can be, it would make a lot more sense for him to be some sort of mage-duellist, who dominates in prolonged 1vs1 fights but is weak against multiple people ganging up on him -> as it is harder to control the blood of multiple people at once obviously.

At the same time his tankyness is just unfitting: Vladimir is SLIPPERY, hard to catch, impossible to truly corner, but not durable. He's not a Sion or a Galion who just soaks up tons of damage like it is nothing, but instead uses his skills to EVADE all damage that could come at him, or heals it up. Him being tanky is just plain weird and completly breaks with the intended "looks weak but is actually hard to kill"-aesthetic. Mostly because a 4k hp bar doesn't look exactly frail or weak.

And the most promising thematic of blood-magic, mostly body control, is completly ignored. If i see a mage controlling the blood of others, I would imagine him making an entire army kneel with the force of his magic, and not him running around and splahing weird red balloons into people's faces. You'd primarly imagine a CONTROL mage in the very sense of the word.

As of right now he's also in a weird spot in terms of balance, requiring to be a little undertuned or else he might make toplane hell for melee champions. The recent rework was supposed to fix this, but as they barely changed anything in the core principles the underlying problems remained.


But I'm not here to just complain, I made some thoughts about how to make him more in tune with his theme:

Passive: Infective Blood - Vladimir's basic attacks and Sanguine Pool infect enemies with stacks of infected blood that grow over time. These stacks have influence over the effect of his abilities. Also units with higher blood stacks suffer increased damage from Vladimir's attacks or abilities.

Q: Transfusion: Still single target, removes Blood Stacks from a target, target gets damaged and Vlad gets healed, depending on the amount of remoaved stacks. If this skill kills a target, cooldown is reset and Vlad gains a speed-boost. Leveling this abilitiy also increases the damage of basic attacks.

W: Sanguine Pool: Mostly unchanged. Applies passive in an AoE.

E: New Skill: KNEEL BEFORE VLAD - Small AoE, targeted: forces the blood in the area to the ground, damaging and slowing all units inside. Effect is stronger depending on the number of Blood Stacks. When X Blood Stacks have been reached, the unit is stunned instead, duration depending on the number of stacks.

R: Ultimate: Blood Puppet: Can only be cast on an enemy with maximal blood stacks. Vlad channels to take control over the target, gaining access to its movement and basic attacks, although both are slowed. Vladimir however cannot move, and the control range is limited. Also there is a time limit. Recasting ends the ability and automatically uses Transfusion to remove all blood stacks.


THIS is how a blood mage could function, not this weird AoE sustained damage dealer we have now. CC and powerful utility, on cost of AoE damage and tankyness as well as the hidden power element of his current ultimate. The intended weakness here is burst damage and constant aggression: if the Vlad constantly has to take back his stacks with Q, he cannot do much. Once he can build it up however, he has access to truly powerful cc.

But that's just my view on this, so... well, at least its an idea no? ^^

It is obvious that there needs to be something done with Vladimir, as his current iteration in the game is a miss from a thematic perspective, as well as a potential problem for balancing issues. Tbh I hate it when a champion is constantly undertuned just because the "best result" and the "worst result" are so much apart due to the AoE potential, but the "best result" must not be game breaking. Removing the AoE aspects and focussing him more on single-target or small areas might be the best way to go here.

35 Comments

Over Innsmouth21 votes

With all respect, I disagree with a lot of your points. His identity is fairly solidly a crossbreed between a DPS mage and a Juggernaut, lacking the certain strengths of each class (Ryze and Cassiopeia's ranges and hard CC for instance), obscene presence from the get-go (Darius and Illaoi, for example), but combines the remaining strengths of both classes (significant levels of sustained damage, a little bit of range, massive AoE, durability) while bringing in some own tricks of his own (absolutely amazing sustain, Sanguine Pool's slipperiness, Haemoplague, functional resourcelessness).

He's not a tank that lacks CC since he's not a tank at all. He absolutely has burst comparable to Annie or the like - and it's on ridiculously low cooldowns to boot - the caveat being his atrocious early game and reliance on CDR as a stat (harder to come by as a manaless mage). Vlad is durable, but not durable in the way Sion or Galio are. The latter two are durable because they've got fat hp bars with loads of AR/MR, Vladimir is durable because if he can get a couple good heals off his actual HP is probably roughly double of what you see. I don't see why Vlad having an above-average HP bar is such an odd concept anyway, seeing as his magic is basically organic matter, it stands to reason that he could bolster his own physical body with it.

Thematically, being an AoE centric mage who devastates people with destructive magic is not at all unfitting. Blood as a magical medium is by no means strict with its usage. With the core fantasy of "blood mage", Vladimir could have become a support who uses his blood arts to heal his allies (a la Soraka), a control mage as you suggested, a single-target nuker who directly attacks his victims immune systems and internal organs, or an AoE centric monster based on outputting damage by basically hitting people really hard with blood, which he is.

Like being hit with a super powerful jet of water, made of blood.

He's a little bit of the heal-mage, a mage who afflicts his targets immune system, and an AoE monster. I personally think Vlad is great thematically, if poorly realized in game with the basic stat-stick that is Crimson Pact (I love the idea of innate durability that scales with your build, but Crimson Pact is a bit lazy and very uninteractive for everyone), and the issues between pro play and regular play that Haemoplague has caused.

QWE are great realizations of the character, if requiring a little fine-tuning. P and R need work, or perhaps complete scrapping and reworking from the ground up.

But that's just what I think, nothing more.

Requiemsfire5 votes

Personally I think Vlad's in a pretty good spot right now but that could just be me. His current kit is pretty fun to use with power gated around windows of power which are very easy to distinguish to any opponent facing him down.

Also how is Vlad tanky?

And how do you solve for Vlad's issue with your suggestion by creating a stacking system that can only be done in fights for when team fights break out especially since his durability has gone down?

SaltyToplaneGoat4 votes

Maybe in terms of balance of being viable, but tbh I can also play Nunu and make that work and that still wouldn't change the fact that the champ was in need of a total overhaul in all areas, be it visual, gemaplay, or theme. Visual and theme are pretty clear with Vlad tho, the problem lies in the fact that the gameplay-execution of his character is such a gigantic miss as of right now.

Requiemsfire3 votes

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree, I would say Vlad's theme is actually pretty strong as a blood mage using the life force of his opponents to empower himself, ducking in out of fights using his sanguine pool whilst sustaining himself, so he comes off as this skirmishing mage as opposed to being a control mage.

Also Nunu is pretty strong right now at least in plat and below.

SaltyToplaneGoat3 votes

Yeah, but he's not strong because of good design. Luckily, Vlad is not as problematic as Nunu, and thematically it feels like he is halfway there: Tranfusion and Pool are core elements, as I kept them in the concept I proposed. However, the rest of his current kit just feels lackluster at best.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but he's not strong because of good design. Luckily, Vlad is not as problematic as Nunu, and thematically it feels like he is halfway there: Tranfusion and Pool are core elements, as I kept them in the concept I proposed. However, the rest of his current kit just feels lackluster at best.

vlad is fine as he is.

SteelMankind4 votes

Yeah, Vlad's a pretty solid battlemage - he practi ally defines the class.

And his upfront burst is very high, actually. Charging up an E with empowered Q ready, and ulting, releasing E, and Qing has a combined AP ratio of 2.4 which should be sufficient to oneshot squishies. The only reason why it doesn't feel that he has all that much bursf is because like Ekko, the best build for him in pro play is not the best build in soloq

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

I'd say because most of his builds are centered around CDR which combined just like swain are very expensive and don't end up too huge in dmg. If you ignore those and go straight for AP you will be oneshotting anything nearly squishy but that's that in the end. I mean his Q goes from 14 secs on rank 1 to a little bit less than 3 secs with 40% cdr. And i value the cdr on swain and vlad way more than raw dmg.

SteelMankind1 votes

And i value the cdr on swain and vlad way more than raw dmg.

Probably a mistake. If you can oneshot squishies with item 3151 item 3089 item 3020 item 3135 Vlad, pool out, and then drain tank whoever's left, why build item 3152 item 3116 item 3065 item 3158item 3157 Vlad? You would do a fraction of the damage, need multiple ability rotations to kill anything, and rely on being tanky/healing enough (hello item 3123 item 3165) to survive long enough to do more than one ability rotation. Oh, and you don't even heal as much, since you have less AP to fuel your heals.

Thing is, Vlad doesn't have any CC, so at the end of the day, he's valuable for his damage. His rework granted him significant health scalings and lower AP scalings, but people just built pure tank and were literally unkillable while still pumping out respectable AOE damage. Over a year later of nerfs to health builds and buffs to AP builds, Vlad now has very impressive AP ratios (especially considering one of his abilities doesn't even scale with AP) and pretty pathetic health ratios. You can view him as more of a burst damage champ, and his healing and health from passive as being a really nice bonus, rather than something he relies on to soak the damage of the entire enemy team.

Idk about Swain though. He doesn't have Vlad W and he's a pure DOT-based mage, so he can't really "oneshot" anyone even if he builds full AP. Stacking AP items that also give defensive stats + a void staff is probably the best build, but I really can't say for sure. That being said, his AP scalings with DFT are pretty insane, so he gets a huge return from purchasing Deathcap.

DunkinNoobs4 votes

He's an AP juggernaut just like Swain, and he fills that role well. Unfortunately, a ranged juggernaut is a very contentious design and it tends to get him nerfed a lot.

Velzard of Koz3 votes

He's supposed to be Battle Mage. And has kit of Battle Mage. I don't see anything weird.

Nymzo3 votes

Isn't he a Battle mage?

Iota Theta3 votes

{quoted}

R: Ultimate: Blood Puppet: Can only be cast on an enemy with maximal blood stacks. Vlad channels to take control over the target, gaining access to its movement and basic attacks, although both are slowed. Vladimir however cannot move, and the control range is limited. Also there is a time limit. Recasting ends the ability and automatically uses Transfusion to remove all blood stacks.

So Vlad mains would be like this? http://gph.is/1LayJPO

Sounds interesting.

Or at least an interesting idea for a new champ

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Yepp, this is what I had in mind. This is the ONE aspect that differenciates blood magic from all other types, and given his personality this is something I would see him do. Not putting this mechanic on Vlad appears like a MASSIVE waste to me.

option paralysis2 votes

How can you guys say Vlad is in a good spot if he's always either at 40% win rate for months or pick/ban status. That is not a good spot. He actually needs a full VGU, like one rioter said on reddit, but they won't do it any time soon, so we're stuck with this kit anyway. I don't like this Vlad anymore, I used to play him a lot and I can't even play him for the one of the best skins in the game Blood Lord, because they fucked his awesome Q and E animation up.

Requiemsfire2 votes

Vlad is strong in the LCS that is true, but he isn't at pick or ban status.

Stats from the LCS spring split according to http://www.gamesoflegends.com/tournament/stats.php?id=NA%20LCS%20Spring%202017

Vladimir 19 bans, 16 picks Camille 183 bans, 26 picks Leblanc 160 bans, 13 picks, Rengar 138 bans, 78 picks,

Comparatively speaking Vlad's pretty low on the priority list for most teams.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

i loved the old vlad. First pentakill i ever did in league was with him. And i was pretty turned of by the rework and dropped him (not that i was a huge main anyways but i enjoyed playing him from time to time). But now after playing this new iteration more often i pretty much fell in love with his kit and playstyle. He feels just so much better to use, has interesting mechanics like WE flash or protobelt. He has clear windows to engage him in lane as opponent and overall he does seem to be more healthy for both sides and as i said i recently picked him up more and more successful and he is really fun to play.

Jeanne fan club2 votes

I don't like how they made a sustained damage mage into a burst mage, especially when his spellvamp is tied to his burst. I liked old vlad because he wouldn't facenuke with a 900 damage ability and instead it took him a lot of time to kill people. Now I'm not saying that we should revert him back to old vlad, but I think that he should regen over time rather than in a burst ability. I also think that his E shouldn't be as much of a nuke as it is now, and I'd rather have it ramp up over continued damage application like his old E.

I don't know, I don't like opening death recap to see 900 damage on vladmir E and 600 damage on empowered Q just to see he only has about 200 Ap but a ton of hp. Old vlad felt like he had a lot of counterplay because he healed much less, but it was on a shorter cd. New vlad kind of just heals a shit ton with his ult and empowered Q while building a shit ton of hp. Counterplay is so much harder against him now, and no adc will buy executioners calling either so that only makes the problem worse. I'm sure that vlad would be a lot less problematic if people actually used the healing reduction items, but no adc i've ever played with is open minded enough to spend money on a 800 gold item that cuts vlads healing in half with only 1 auto attack.

l Dárius l2 votes

i thought he was an aids spreading 1v5 draintank or something. i mean isnt a key characteristic of a control mage to have... range? or soemthing

Knalxz2 votes

The man uses his blood to kill people. No matter what Riot does he'll always be weird.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

One of the problems with your ideas is that a control mage is often very highly AoE based. That's how they control their area, after all (although you could call Annie a control mage, anyone kinda squishy who steps into her zone of control is deleted.)

Also, I'm assuming that his new E would be a pseudo single target ability? As in, it's only really gonna hit one person, but it's an AoE so it's not targeted/blocked by enemies.

I think his new ult would be terrible because imagine playing against that - not being able to do anything for at least 3 seconds..

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well, it's kinda like a Jarvan ult: usually you only gonna get one into there, but if you are good you can squeeze up to five enemies in.

As I imagine it the area is an AoE, like you'd aim MF's E or Cho'Gath's Q.

Well obviously the ult comes with its own set of problems, thats why I restricted the use on "maximum blood stacks", so Vlad can't just shut you down out of nowhere like Malzahar does it.

Karfuss1 votes

I believe Vlad has is own niche, and he fills it rather well. He will outsustain anyone in lane bar post-6 Swain, and will win trades as a result. You're unlikely to win lane pre-6, but you most certainly will not lose it (due in part to lack of kill potential until 6).

He's a very safe, easy to pick up champion if you're uncomfortable with mid/top, or are learning the roles. Not only that, but he does do an often underestimated amount of burst towards mid-late game.

Clown 7891 votes

I think vlad's in a pretty good spot righ now, but I just hate the q mechanic with the third q doing more damge

IdveYsUfSK1 votes

Currently he is a truly unique tanky battle mage that needs to play around health. Although he wasnt as good as before dealing tons of aoe dmg easily, he gained a lot of control tools. Now he just isnt a carry mage but a control mage that wastes enemy time through baiting and kiting.

Toastersaot1 votes

Why does Vladimir have no damage with this rework idea? His E and R are currently his main sources of damage in team fights, and with your idea I would go On hit Support Vladimir with a item 3085 and item 3153 just so I could apply stacks of that passive. I am a Vladimir main so I am very biased, however the idea you have in your rework idea would be much more fitting of a new champion that focuses around puppets, kind of like the puppet ninjas from the Naruto anime.

Toastersaot1 votes

{quoted}

Vladimir was the very first 6300 champ I bought with IP when I started this game in season 2, so you can be sure that when it comes to our hemomancy master of blood related puns I know what I am talking about.

Then why has Vladimir been out of your top 10 played champions since season 4? https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=SpeedWeeb

You haven't seemed to have played him much since his rework I think, his thematically fit pretty nicely, and if he needs updates it's probably to his Ult and passive.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Yeah I played him since the rework, found it mediocre and underwhelming and still not delivering his fantasy properly.

I mean, I can properly tell that urgot needs a VGU without being a dedicated Urgot main. It doesn't take thousands hours of play and a billion mastery points to state obvious facts.

Toastersaot1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I played him since the rework, found it mediocre and underwhelming and still not delivering his fantasy properly.

I mean, I can properly tell that urgot needs a VGU without being a dedicated Urgot main. It doesn't take thousands hours of play and a billion mastery points to state obvious facts.

Well perhaps you should stick to Soraka then for a healer fantasy. Your opinion is heard however I believe personally that is flawed.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Where have I ever stated I wanted a healer fantasy?! All I want is that our BLOOD MAGE freaking plays like one. I want the HEMOMANCER fantasy when I play Vladimir, nothing more or less. He's halfway there already but the "infective blood" thematic of his ult can be used so much better and his E is just uninspired. Just give it another color and you got water magic, ice magic, fire magic or whatever you can make an orb and then make it explode.

But well, he had been part of a roster upgrade, those are generally underwhelming as the goal is not to make what suits the champ best, but what the gameplay team can code with as little art ressources as possible.

Incarceration1 votes

I actually like how he is right now. I find him really reliable, has outplay potential with counterplay, and has weaknesses. However, I agree that he should get changes identity-wise because he lacks burst and he also lacks range. I'm okay with his Q being a skillshot if he gets more range and I'm okay with him having burst, as long as it's telegraphed and it has counterplay. Maybe, if he uses his ult, and lands both Q and E (max chanrge), he can 100-0 the opponent. Otherwise, I'm fine with him.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Nah his burst is fine as it is, even too strong in many situations. Just like other battlemages/ap juggernaughts he is very dependent on being ahead or atleast even to function well. Swains dmg is crazy as well if ahead but falls of into useless when behind. Vlad is the same. Also both value CDR more than full AP. Build vlad on full AP and skip any CDR item and you see his crazy dmg. But then you are tied to every QE being on a 8-9 secs CD. With full CDR his upfront burst is lower but you have QE on 3 secs CD allowing you to sweep in and out of fights repeatedily

Incarceration1 votes

What I meant by burst was something like Viktor E-Q-R or Orianna Q-R, not Vlad's empowered Q. Even though it is bursty, the Q requires more time to execute compared to "bursty" combos who just 100-0 if executed.

Bloody82

Vlad mains here, and i disagree. The reason i play him more than anything is his kit. I don't want it to be underwhelming, but not to change to much. First of all the passive you wrote makes no sense to me. Vlad is a mage, focusing on his abilities not aa. As for the e i don't really get what you meant, and i don't think your ult is ever going to make it into the game. You talked about him becoming good at 1v1s and not multiple targets, but it is actually the opposite right now and i want it to stay the way it is. Now what Vlad really lacks are 2 things: Mobility and CC. What riot can do is add up a little bit of that. I think his current Q and E should stick around or find better replacements you never know what riot comes up with. His ult can be very similar (because it suits his kit), but maybe changed a little. Now for his passive it can have the same effect of stacking health and ap, but what is they added Blood Thirst (Crimson Rush) from his q to another part of his passive. Something like Rengar or Renkton. I You would stack it from abilities or maybe just being in combat, and when you get a certain number of stacks you get bonus effect on abilities, and maybe a short burst of move speed. Time to talk about W. As i mentioned before he lacks mobility and cc. What about giving him one of those on W. I thought of few abilities and i think that this one will do. He targets a location abound him and he teleports there (becomes untargetable while telporting, sink into the ground and reaper on the spot he targeted) Very similar to Lisandra E, he can charge his E and then W before it pops. I think that can be really fun. It would ever make it it would probably have a long cooldown and might have a health cost as much as his current W. Not to forget if he gets reworked I really wan to see a sweet new model and voice lines, and a new Blood Lord Vlad. Tell me what you guys think.

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