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Why Karma Should Be Able to Shield Minions. And Why not.

SilverSquid··24 votes·4,373 views

Inspire (E)

  • Shield value lowered to 70/100/130/160/190 from 80/110/140/170/200
  • Can no longer shield minions.
  • ** Mantra Bonus - Defiance (R+E)** now has same movement speed as E shield (40/45/50/55/60%) instead of** 60%**.

Those changes are currently on the PBE. After LeeSin Lulu Soraka Taric, Karma is the next in line to have her ability to heal/shield minions removed. However, there has been a decent outrage in the Karma community over this (2-3 new threads a day). I will try to shortly highlight the pros (leave it) and cons (remove it) for Brtain leaving the EU Karma's minion shielding.

( + ) Targeting a minion with RE allows you to better aim/distribute the effect.

As many Karma veterans will tell you, you frequently run into situations in which you can not reach everyone with your RE, unless you target a minion. This - in their opinion - shows a decent amount of Karma mastery and rewards good thinking. It is also reminiscent of Old Karma and her last direct minion interaction (she used to be able to shield, heal, speed, slow them and use them as anchor point to deal damage).

( - ) You can accidentally shield a minion instead of a champion.

In the hasty game of LoL you aren't always on point with your spells, even point-and-click spells. And in a crowd it's sometimes hard enough to shield the correct champion, so if an ally cuddles with minions, it is sometimes really awkward and embarassing. Karma fans will counter this point by offering the following solutions: (A) Use alt+E to shield yourself (B) use the "target champion only" button (defaullt "^") (C) Use the champion portraits to cast E or (D) Git gud.

( + ) You can push towers more easily

Toplane Karma usually struggles with pushing towers (also Midlane Karma, to some extent). To make up for her lacking towerdamage and mediocre waveclear, you can shield the correct minions to make them survive the enemy minions, or tank 1-2 extra towershots. Karma fans will argue, that knowing when to shield the correct minion and when not to, requires decent game knowledge and skill.

( - ) Directly denying minions

Riot is strongly opposed to direct CS denial. I am not sure about the exact argument for and against this, but we must acknowledge that this is Riot's goal. My guess is, that they think that laning phase is already challenging enough with vision, CSing and trading, so you don't need this as well. Granting CS denial to only certain champions might be problematic too. However, we also have to keep in mind, that Braum, Yasuo and Teemo have more efficient ways of denying CS, that do not impact their ressources/options as negatively as they do for Karma.

What do you think?

Now that you know the argument, I'd love to hear what you think. If you don't have the time, just vote in the poll. I'd love to see if there is a difference between people playing her (~having her in the top 5 most played champions) or playing against her (everyone else).

If you wanna see more indepth discussions, here are the most popular threads so far:

BONUS TOPIC: RE for speedburst?

What some Karma plebs incexperienced Karma players didn't know is, that you can cast RE on lvl1 for the full 60% movespeed burst. For midlane, this meant the option to speed away with slightly more shield and 60% instead of 40% MS. This was one of the very few occasions you could use RE in a sololane. So I am wondering; do you mind if this option gets removed? Does it matter to you, if sololane Karma never uses RE until the teamfights? And/or do you think it's okay if Karma predominantly uses only one Mantra option for the whole laning phase? I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but I am curious about this too.

101 Comments

Jungle Lux God10 votes

Karma should probably be able to shield minions if she uses her mantra E and not be able to if she uses her normal E.

That keeps all the cool stuff that you mentioned (like distributing the mantra E and pushing towers) while getting rid of the negatives (won't accidentally shield minion instead of allies and you can't deny CS without burning your ulti).

Then again I don't play Karma, so I definitely wouldn't be the best person to say something about it.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

Your first point is completely valid. This is an aspect of Karma that gives power. That's why it should be removed. Because Riot is attempting to NERF HER.

SilverSquid5 votes

I don't know whether it's a good idea to nerf a champion that barely scratches the 50% winrate mark. However, in that case, wouldn't it make more sense to adress the mindlessly buffed numbers (RE in 6.6), instead of their already shrinking options and skill expressions?

redfeenix3 votes

It's never a good idea to remove strategic options. It's better to target the numbers for needs, as keeping this option open would enable high skilled karma's to make better plays..

The Yetii Rider1 votes

A) Riot never reverts buffs of nerfs. They just find new ways to buff and nerf.

B) Karma's win rate is irrelevant. This patch is only concerned with pro play.

SilverSquid2 votes

A) Do you think it's valid to complain about a number's buff that the Karma community opposed and a mechanics nerf that the Karma community opposes?

B) Fair point. With the Lulu/Leona/Sona/Talisman changes I do not expect Karma to be as prevelant in pro play anyways. It feels like she is getting Sejuani'd.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

A) Yes but only if the entire community opposes it. NA isn't even the largest region. The Lee Sin rework was withdrawn because it had global opposition. Ten or twelve players in NA don't really portray a large sample size.

B) Champs with low levels of popularity get intentionally nerfed out of the spotlight all the time. The mains live and learn.

SilverSquid1 votes

A) There will never be a 100% consensus in a community. However, I do not have many choices in evaluating the desires of Karma fans other than here on the boards. I am from EUW too, btw.

B) This is some conspiracy theory level of explanation, that I'd rather not join willingly. But even if this would be the case, does it change anything about whether it should be opposed?

The Yetii Rider1 votes

A) Yes, but Riot does their own playtesting of changes, nerfs and buffs, including bringing pro players who play the champion in to ask their opinions. It's not like the players are muted in the decision making at Riot.

B) It's not conspiracy. I can't find the post, but there was a big Rioter response a while back when asking about whether they could fix Sejuani after she had been nerfed for so long. The Rioter said that they were content to leave Sejuani weak to give other unpopular picks a turn in the spotlight, and that it was common to rotate champions in terms of strength. Or something like that.

As for whether it should be opposed, it's absolutely relevant. If we oppose things that are not going to change, it makes us as a group look petulant and weak, and that makes our voices easier to ignore when we're speaking out about something that's actually important.

SilverSquid1 votes

A) Their playtesters test for game health, not necessarily champion identity. In terms of game health, this doesn't impact the game, even if it does impact the champion. I also do not know how many of these playtesters have spent much time/thought on Karma before. Similar things apply to pro players, where Karma was virtually absent for every but this season. Additionally, with all that playtesting they still don't know in which direction to push Karma. Meddler knows she is bland and uninspired, Statikk thinks she could become an Artillery/Enchanter... in contrast to what every Karma player on the boards then told him.

B) They said that they do not intentionally make champions weak, but that they do like it if everyone has a time to shine every once in a while. Those two are not the same thing.

How do you know whether things are going to be changed, if you never try? I mean, I do see your point, but this seems to be something where I would find you lazy&stubborn and you would find me foolish&ignorant. Like any liberal-conservative discussion ever, lol.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

How do you know whether things are going to be changed, if you never try? I mean, I do see your point, but this seems to be something where I would find you lazy&stubborn and you would find me foolish&ignorant. Like any liberal-conservative discussion ever, lol.

Because Riot isn't a government. It's a company. One voice does not equal one vote, not by a long shot. If you want proof of that, just look at how many "Bring Back Solo Queue" threads there have been since the start of this season. Riot doesn't care that there's a vocal minority, they care about what they believe is best for the game and its health.

Also, again, you're not a pro player. Why would anyone trust you to weigh in on what's healthy for the pro scene? If these nerfs were coming at any other time, I might be inclined to agree that you wouldn't know if things were going to be changed. This nerf is aimed at top level Karma players, specifically. Challenger, LCS Karma players. Your voice means nothing to that discussion.

SilverSquid2 votes

Why would anyone trust you to weigh in on what's healthy for the pro scene?

I do not argue from authority. I argue from a game design perspective.

Also I don't think I've argued in this thread, what I do find good or bad in competitive. I was exclusively talking about Karma generally, her depth and identity. However, I did once argue that I think that RE is too reliable and Karma needs more skillchecks to not make her as borderline reliable as she is now. Do I say "because I am so knowledgable about pro play"? No. I use this argument and expect to be refuted or agreed with. So I can either learn or proceed with finding solutions.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know whether it's a good idea to nerf a champion that barely scratches the 50% winrate mark. However, in that case, wouldn't it make more sense to adress the mindlessly buffed numbers (RE in 6.6), instead of their already shrinking options and skill expressions?

Her issue isn't her numbers, it's the fact that her kit has very little room for skill expression. You pick someone to E, you pick someone to W, you shoot your Q at the squishiest target you can hit, and you autoattack for your passive.

The only room for skill expression is in choice of mantra, and at this point that's a pretty easy choice to make.

  • Are you about to die and/or are you tank Karma? W

  • Are you AP?

    • Laning...
      • W in an all-in or trading with a melee
      • Q to trade or poke
    • Teamfights
      • Q if you can hit their backline
      • Otherwise E

  • Are you support?

    • E if it is a teamfight
    • Q to poke or run from a ranged champ or group of champs
    • W if you're going for a pick or running from a single melee champ

There you go, you now have the same amount of mastery as me (300+ karma games).

SilverSquid1 votes

Her issue isn't her numbers, it's the fact that her kit has very little room for skill expression.

I'll call a local printshop and tell them to send 7000 posters with that message on it to Riot Headquarters and I will repeat doing this weekly until they finally get it. If it fails to send the message, at least I am supporting a local business.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

I'll call a local printshop and tell them to send 7000 posters with that message on it to Riot Headquarters and I will repeat doing this weekly until they finally get it. If it fails to send the message, at least I am supporting a local business.

  1. Karma summoner 12 summoner 4
  2. item 3027 item 1001
  3. item 3110 item 3067 item 3114 45% cdr
  4. item 3111 item 3065 item 3504 item 3075
  5. Never leave top lane. Only back when you have an item to buy and can tele back to lane immediately.
  6. Always push, never die.
  • Always R-W
  1. Tilt the fuck out of the enemy laner
  2. Once you hit item 3027 item 3111 item 3065 item 3110 item 3114 , group with your team and push turrets.
  • As long as there's any enemy nearby to heal off of, you can tank anything short of the nexus turret indefinitely.
  1. Enjoy your ticket to plat.

I'm serious, this strategy is so braindead that anyone can do it, there's very little counterplay, and it's strong enough against uncoordinated teams and teams that don't buy executioner's to get you to plat.

SilverSquid1 votes

Looks sweet. Or horrible. Depending on how you look at it.

I personally want to look at it from a game design perspective, and this just looks like braindead cancer. I'd love Karma to find a point between useless and abuseable. And, please don't take this too harshly, but I wish builds like this wouldn't be possible anymore.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Looks sweet. Or horrible. Depending on how you look at it.

I personally want to look at it from a game design perspective, and this just looks like braindead cancer. I'd love Karma to find a point between useless and abuseable. And, please don't take this too harshly, but I wish builds like this wouldn't be possible anymore.

Not taken harshly at all. I, too, wish builds like this were not possible. Or at least, had more counterplay than executioners and we're less braindead. Once you hit 45% cdr, if you have a reasonable lead (which you should, since karma's laning is strong) you can literally just let the enemy laner hit you and ignore them, because you heal so much (at full build it's 1k per 4 seconds per 50% missing hp, plus a 400 hp shield. On top of 100 MR and 300 armor with the runes/masteries I use. And you literally can't run oom because your healing:mana ratio is higher than catalyst's damage:mana conversation.

Whenever I play it I apologize in advance and ask my enemy laner to let everybody know how unfun this build is for the game. I figure maybe if enough people do that it will become a hot topic and Riot will prioritize a karma rework.

SilverSquid1 votes

I figure maybe if enough people do that it will become a hot topic and Riot will prioritize a karma rework.

Lol. That's one way to fight the fight. I am probably better at using words, so that's my path. I am curious though; what's your runes/masteries setting? 0-21-9 and stacking hp?

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

Lol. That's one way to fight the fight. I am probably better at using words, so that's my path.

I am also better at using words (I actually pinged Meddler about it, too, though I probably shouldn't have; I try to be respectful and limit that to only things that are absolutely important. /brag) but whynotboth.png?

I am curious though; what's your runes/masteries setting? 0-21-9 and stacking hp?

My current setup is:

  • Hybrid pen reds (more potent early aa harass, esp. if they itemize armor)
  • Flat armor quints
  • Scaling armor yellows
  • Scaling MR blues

I haven't done out the math to figure out whether scaling hp seals would be better numerically. It's reasonably complex when you factor in the bonus shield you get and then doing those calculations at different levels/item spikes.. meh, this is good enough. That's how I get over 300 armor with only 2 main armor items.

Masteries are basically everything for tankiness, sustain, pushing, and dueling.

|Ferocity|Cunning|Resolve| |- |0/0|0/5|0/5| |0/0/0|0/0/1|0/1| |0/0|0/5|5/0| |0/0|0/1|1/0| |0/0|0/5|0/0| |0/0/0|0/0/1|0/0/0|

This doesn't work as well any more, but back before the S5 mastery rework, I'd go scaling armor yellows, scaling mr blues, hybrid pen reds and quints, and 30-0-0. Then I'd start the game with a long sword and 3 mana pots. You had to be careful of an all-in if your R was down, but both your R-W sustain/disengage and your Q/AA poke were great and really hard to itemize against.

Full build was something like: RoA, Visage, Gauntlet, Bork, Zephyr, Situational. This was back when visage gave 20% cdr and Gauntlet gave 10 but was just as good on ranged champs. You'd basically turn into a secondary support for your adc, using q, gauntlet, and bork and W to peel tanks off your adc (while still doing decent damage because bork was a 1-item wonder). Also attempting to body-block everything for your adc, because while you weren't as tanky as today's build, you were tanky enough. Good times.

inplane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MoyIEXtL,comment-id=000000000003,timestamp=2016-07-19T01:49:14.421+0000)

Her issue isn't her numbers, it's the fact that her kit has very little room for skill expression.

They made a big mistake when they tried to rework her theme and character altogether, but tried to tack on her old moves "in memory of her old self". Like her Q does not fit with the rest of her kit at all. It feels so out of place and unnecessary for a champion that needs to stay close. It's like giving Chogath an Ezreal Q in place of his E. It's nice to have, but it has no business being there.

Vanjie3 votes

The champion itself didn't need a nerf. Riot needs to give her significant work to play up her theme. All Riot has done is buff her numbers and then nerf them a few months later. Riot continues to nerf and remove things about Karma that make Karma. They removed her fans, her dress, her shield bomb, and now her ability to shield minions. Let's not get into the fact that her lore is boring, her theme is not fully captured, Karma's kit is bland and boring, and her kit is only made relevant because of unnecessary number buff that doesn't' do anything for the champion itself. It's a real shame.

Riot can justify working on Lulu, Soraka, Sona and other champions part of her Lore or Class, but they cannot seem to give a crap about Karma. Riot just doesn't care.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

The champion itself didn't need a nerf. Riot needs to give her significant work to play up her theme. All Riot has done is buff her numbers and then nerf them a few months later. Riot continues to nerf and remove things about Karma that make Karma. They removed her fans, her dress, her shield bomb, and now her ability to shield minions. Let's not get into the fact that her lore is boring, her theme is not fully captured, Karma's kit is bland and boring, and her kit is only made relevant because of unnecessary number buff that doesn't' do anything for the champion itself. It's a real shame.

Riot can justify working on Lulu, Soraka, Sona and other champions part of her Lore or Class, but they cannot seem to give a crap about Karma. Riot just doesn't care.

I'm honestly surprised that they haven't brought back the concept of Fans as a weapon or a champion that has a shield bomb skill (Sion barely counts).

Also, don't forget about her cone-based AOE heal, The Karma passive, and one of the most unique tether skills to exist in League.

Voluug134 votes

The entirety of her kit (and fans) is and remains unique.

Honestly Riot should rework from Old Karma instead of Scarma, but newer Rioters apparently like her explosive Nidalee spears too much to remember she is a battlemage, not yet another Artillery mage with utility. We have a lot of that already, but utility battlemage? That is pretty unique.

Mindworm Jim1 votes

Out of curiosity, could you give some detail on what you would consider a utility battlemage (or even a normal battlemage) to look like? Most mages given some amount of utility with their crowd control, and we already have utility mages (or maybe support mage is a better term?) like Orianna and Lulu (which is where I personally always classified Karma).

Voluug131 votes

I will start by the premise her pre-rework kit was the best, except for her passive, which idgaf.

Pre-rework W tether and QR heals are very good examples. They gave Karma high amounts of utility that depended on her positioning in the front lines.

RQ heal greatly benefited high HP targets that squishy ones, since it worked off missing HP with a relatively smaller base. Its low range also made Karma a strong, but counterable healer/support. Specially compared to Soraka or Sona, who have problems of being too safe for being a healer.

Meanwhile, W and RW were the best aoe haste of the game. 5s duration and 6 cd (at the mandatory 40% cdr), it was basically a permanent aoe haste/single slow/aoe damage ability, that heavily depended on Karma's positioning skills for effectiveness.

Her bombshielding also worked as this, as she was supposed, pre-rework, its not utility but heavily contributed to her battlemage identity.

Her LuLux/Orianna clone status was a rework mistake. It left her as a jack-of-all-trades with no good middle point: either irrelevant when her numbers are good or below (since JoaTs arent very good on specific roles), or opressing when she gets high numbers (since JoaTs can a bit of everything).

That is why I say Q/RQ and her passive should not be the priorization of whatever rework Riot is maybe planning. We have several long range utility mages already, an utility battlemage is way more unique that TNT Nidalee with a shield.

Mindworm Jim1 votes

So it sounds like you're saying a battlemage would be someone like Swain, Cho'Gath, or Aurelion Sol? Need to be kind of in your face to get the most out of their abilities? And you suggest that Karma should be recast as a battlemage with a heavy utility focus? Hmmmm... Is Cho'Gath her closest analogue?

SilverSquid2 votes

Yup, pretty spot on. Cho is considered "unique playstyle" along Fiddle, Blitz, Kennen, Urgot and Singed.

Battle Mages Source

  • Karthus
  • Vladimir
  • Ryze
  • Swain
  • Rumble
  • Cassiopeia
  • Aurelion Sol
  • Gangplank (hybrid Skirmisher)
  • Malzahar

Additionally **Galio **(Warden), **Brand **(Burst Mage) and **Karma **(Enchanter) got a "(hybrid Battle Mage)" noticifaction in their subclass.

"Battle Mages get into the middle of the fray, seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage. Due to their relatively short (but not melee) combat ranges and the need to burn down their opponents over time, Battle Mages have significant defensive capabilities that range from sustaining endlessly to literally defying death for a short period of time." Source

Mindworm Jim1 votes

Oh hey, how did I not see this Dev Blog before? This is really cool, and makes talking about design goals waaaaaaaayyyyyy easier. So yeah, Karma looks like she wants to be in the midpoint between Battlemage and one of the Controllers?

Oooo, perhaps default abilities are Battlemage/Enchanter and Mantra'd abilities are Battlemage/Disruptor?

Voluug131 votes

Her Mantra abilities lack hard CC to be an actual disruptor.

She is much more of a Battlemage with secondary disruptor that the reverse. Her only non-Battlemage ability is Q/RQ, which is a sore point on her kit since it stretchs it out and causes problems

Her kit, pre-patch, was very close to Swain, Vlad and Mordekaiser. Way more that a Lulux/Orianna clone. Se only shared some itemization (old Athenes) because of how much she benefited from CDR, mana regen and a nice amount of AP/defenses. But aside that she was much closer to the usual battlemages.

Baron Perenolde1 votes

Lol what have they done for support Lulu? She's been reduced to a shield-bot and had her damage nerfed; she is now a poor man's Janna. That attack speed buff tacked on to Whimsy was kind of pointless (unless you're with Kog) because casting it on an enemy is more useful.

I feel Riot should have just nerfed Glitterlance's damage to minions and make her ult more satisfying to use on allies and less so on herself. But as usual, they don't know what to do with support Lulu. And in that regard, I can relate with Karma fans.

Voluug131 votes

The fact they even give her attention is way more that they have done for Karma. Yeah, the lattest changes to Lulu havent been wholly positive, but they are trying.

Karma has been left a in a ditch with only empty words and lazy, shallow buff/nerfing for years. She needs the attention, instead of 100 nerfs for 15min of LCS glory that will leave her in a bad state for a rework latter on.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

The fact they even give her attention is way more that they have done for Karma. Yeah, the lattest changes to Lulu havent been wholly positive, but they are trying.

Karma has been left a in a ditch with only empty words and lazy, shallow buff/nerfing for years. She needs the attention, instead of 100 nerfs for 15min of LCS glory that will leave her in a bad state for a rework latter on.

Actually, just buffing. Karma hasn't received a nerf in a while.

SilverSquid2 votes

Make that a never

As long as you don't counter powershifts.

Voluug131 votes

I meant the nerfs that are atm in PBE. And if Karma even gains a shred of popularity due to her recent short LCS stunt, she will be nerfed more. I am 100% sure of it.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

I meant the nerfs that are atm in PBE. And if Karma even gains a shred of popularity due to her recent short LCS stunt, she will be nerfed more. I am 100% sure of it.

Karma has the reverse Azir problem. Azir gets nerfed because of how strong he is in skilled hands. There's very little to distinguish the good Karmas from the bad Karmas, so that means Karma will always be weak in high tier play. Which means that if she gets strong enough to win in high tier play, karma is roflstomping everywhere.

Voluug131 votes

Actually, she isnt. Her winrateits still 49%~ last time I checked.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

That's pretty interesting. Maybe because non-pros can't abuse her strong early as well?

SilverSquid1 votes

Karma's winrate drops lategame. Proteams can purposely build a team that snowballs her oppressive early game and uncounterable RE power midgame to win. In pubs your team won't be able to make full use of your RE power and miss the curve, so you just as often fall off and lose a game where you aren't doing much other than shieldbotting and watching your team fail, with no chance of carrying (unless you went AP, but that's also not that effective, if your team is behind).

Baron Perenolde1 votes

Fair enough.

dunkeroni2 votes

Honestly, I was always a bit angry when I shielded a minion instead of ally champion, but the only times I intentionally shielded a minion was to be a dick to enemy adc. In that light, I think it's probably a good thing they got rid of it xD

SilverSquid1 votes

Clearly one doesn't care about features one doesn't use. But what do you think about people who used this frequently?

dunkeroni1 votes

I think that the usage is healthy for gameplay interactions, but it can mess up laning phase in a way that Riot might think is bad. It's possible that by removing the ability to shield minions, they will have room to buff the base value on the shield to compensate in the future. As for the people who use it frequently, kudos to them I guess, but there are far better uses for Karma's mana pool.

Oleandervine1 votes

Yeah, Riot is wanting to nerf her in a way that doesn't completely gut her. Tweaking her shield is the best way to go because it leaves her Q and RQ intact, allowing her to retain her serious poke potential.

SilverSquid3 votes

There is a serious debate whether she should be a poke champion though. Riot mainly sees her as an Enchanter/Battlemage. Additionally, her W and RW contradict her poke behaviour.

Voluug133 votes

Her Q/RQ are showhorned and dont fit with her theme and kit as it. They dont need to be priority over literally everything else on her kit.

She is a battlemage, not an explosive spear Nidalee.

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

Her Q/RQ are showhorned and dont fit with her theme and kit as it. They dont need to be priority over literally everything else on her kit.

She is a battlemage, not an explosive spear Nidalee.

A battle mage has to have some sort of offensive capabilities or they fail to be a battle mage. W and E are disruption/utility spells and don't fit the battle mage motif. I feel that Q feels very fitting for her theme and her kit, and she's focusing her inner fire as a projectile, akin to DBZ characters channeling whatever-the-hell-they-Hame-Kame-Ha and then fire at each have other. W and E actually feel shoe horned into her kit, if you want to argue theme, because whenever you see the self disciplined monks and mystics of which she is based, they don't ever channel their energies into shielding for other people, nor can they will others to be still - they usually use their inner energies as projectiles or they use them in self shielding and enhancement.

SilverSquid3 votes

"Battle Mages get into the middle of the fray, seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage. Due to their relatively short (but not melee) combat ranges and the need to burn down their opponents over time, Battle Mages have significant defensive capabilities that range from sustaining endlessly to literally defying death for a short period of time." - Riot

E gives her infight survivability. E gives her the mobility a battlemage needs. W gives her short ranged sustained damage, and her selfheal gives her the "defying death" thingy. Those fit the battlemage archetype. A long ranged poke damage spell that is most reliable at max range, however, is NOT. The only saving grace is, that it's her only AoE, but it fits really awkwardly.

W and E actually feel shoe horned into her kit, if you want to argue theme, because whenever you see the self disciplined monks and mystics of which she is based, they don't ever channel their energies into shielding for other people

Karma isn't based on martial archetype monks, like Lee Sin is. I don't know where you get that idea from. She is a spiritual leader, a duchess, a meditating, enlightened mediator. Who ever said anything about monk anyways? Just because they shoehorned a kamehameha in her lore doesn't make her akin to them.

akin to DBZ characters channeling whatever-the-hell-they-Hame-Kame-Ha

Nooooooo. That's their Ki (which is the sum of all their physical power), whereas Karma uses the energy of her soul. This is also why DBZ chars aren't enlightened, but really buffed.

PwnKat1 votes

She can shield minions already.....

LSmaster161 votes

They're getting rid of that on the pbe

SilverSquid5 votes

Thanks for not even reading the first sentence of my post...

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