Stop rewarding damage with durability

Big Lincoln·Jun 1, 2017·107 votes·4,680 views

https://i.gyazo.com/bb912ec0aae58f5f45fd20889b6745ce.png

this is ridiculous, lifesteal monsters are already a massive nuisance and you're going to let them overheal on a mastery, which will stack even higher with ?

the counterplay to these tumors is to be able to burst them so their massive draintanking doesn't come into effect, so why are you giving them a shield to mitigate that burst? Don't do this, Riot, lifesteal is already a big enough problem right now

DD buffs have me worried Illaoi is going to be nerfed soon; this overhealing mechanic will guarantee her needing one

source http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/coming-preseason-runes-reforged

160 Comments

EedatJun 1, 201722 votes

Honestly this doesnt even seem that good. When you compare it to something like the current Vampirism + life steal quints, it seems pretty sub par. You have to factor in that this system is replacing both masteries and runes. Unless the healing pushes you over 100% HP, it completely useless. Contrast it to Vampirism and some life steal runes which are effective at any HP %.

ShadòwJun 1, 20175 votes

still it prevents Burst and that's what it is made for.

maybe the 10% will actually safe you and you would be dead without it before you could even lifesteal back.

EedatJun 1, 201710 votes

Still though it doesnt offer any additional sustain. The specific complaint about it is "draintanking" which this would actually reduce when compared to current runes and masteries

ShadòwJun 1, 20177 votes

combine that with item 3072 and say that again.

especially Draven will be full cancer.

EedatJun 1, 201712 votes

Nobody even builds BT anymore because it turns out the shield is practically meaningless on the squishies that build it. A shield with no resistances to back it up isnt worth much.

Thats why people build item 3153 or item 3812 over item 3072 for their lifesteal currently

ShadòwJun 1, 20172 votes

with such a Rune it will probably come back.

EedatJun 1, 20173 votes

Eh. Its still super expensive. I don't think it will come back without a price adjustment. There's just no reason to get it over DD or Bork. The shield isn't worth that much.

58697132DEL1Jun 1, 20175 votes

and? thats the point of an evolving shifting game, you make changes, these changes shift gameplay, adjustments are made, the game changes, repeat indefinitely.

ShadòwJun 2, 20171 votes

when evolving means that this shitty shield spam will be even worse than it is now already then i'm out

58697132DEL1Jun 2, 20172 votes

fair enough, but you dont get a shield to spam with this. you only heal if you were already AT 100% and last i checked you can't kill anyone at 100% health without dropping them to 0% health, in which case this rune is then useless until use of items and other forms of sustain to get whoever has it BACK to 100%

I agree that too many shieldy spammy battle lengthening is quite annoying, i've even made a specific team comp to abuse that, but this rune is not it.

Big LincolnJun 1, 20178 votes

my complaint is that in addition to someone like Fiora who already draintanks you with item 3074 item 3812 +her innate sustain from passive/ult, will ALSO be able to overheal, which means if the shield is significant enough to matter then she'll be even harder for a lot of champions to deal with since that shield means you need that much more burst to kill her through it.

it's just extraneous, in my opinion

Hinagiku33Jun 1, 20177 votes

Fiora : item 3074 item 3071 item 3812 + new Keystone

Imagine her split-pushing and going to try and stop her, only now she's got a perma-shield to mitigate any initial burst because she keeps constantly over-healed from Lifestealing off of the minion waves.

Extra health + percent damage reduction (as a bleed out) + 2 sources of healing off her damage, one of which is AoE + a shield that scales with Cleaver's health and any other defense items with health she buys after this

Yep, that won't be obnoxious ever.

MannnyJun 1, 201715 votes

Riot seems to forget that a champion with item 3812 item 3072 item 3153 can be just as tanky as a actual tank champion. Tired of seeing this disgusting item 3047 Draven build which abuses this feature.

RalanrJun 1, 201714 votes

Also, essence theif: everyone gets a weaker but equally relevant Sion W passive.

...WTF?

Big LincolnJun 1, 201739 votes

Just means Sion gets two Sion passives

[slayer-jinx-wink]

EndlessSorcererJun 1, 201726 votes

Sion already gets two Sion passives.

One of them is health-stacking and the other turns him into an inferior Tibbers.

RalanrJun 1, 201710 votes

That's not funny. Sion has a low health pool because of his passive. Other tanks don't and would end up benefiting from this at a much better rate.

I mean, it's great for support tanks that can't CS cause of the ADC. But it COMPLETELY shits on the reasons Sion has low HP early and makes him a lot less unique.

Velzard of KozJun 1, 20172 votes

His point still stands. In case Sion also takes the Rune, he still benefits more. Yes, the enemy tank stacks HP and has higher base HP but you cannot deny Sion, with the same AND bonus source of HP stacking is not going to over-effect them. He gains around 3 HP per kill and let's say 2 HP from two extra deaths around while the enemy gets just 3 HP even If they kill the units, not to mentoin Sion gets now and then whole 10 HP.

In other words Sion with good farming gets around 25 HP where enemy gets 6 HP.

Blue Moon WolfJun 2, 20172 votes

Could result in a buff on his passive, giving him more health per minion death or something.

ArakadiaJun 1, 20172 votes

Is that an upcoming rune?

Dasdi96Jun 1, 201713 votes

Prepare for another Yasuo permaban. Oh wait. He is always permabanned.

Big LincolnJun 1, 20176 votes

prepare for Draven Fiora Mordekaiser Illaoi permabans too

zz i don't want my champion to get made broken

AirKingNeoJun 1, 20174 votes

Fiora is already permaban lul

EvanThomasJun 1, 201711 votes

DD buffs have me worried Illaoi is going to be nerfed soon; this overhealing mechanic will guarantee her needing one

In case you've forgotten, Illaoi's tentacles heal her for 5% missing health. In order to get the Overheal shield, you need 100% HP, aka no missing health. This means that your tentacles won't overheal you unless you have DD. I know from experience that Illaoi needs to win lane most of the time in order to afford items, which means that Overheal will only be effective on her if and only if she's ahead.

She'll be fine, I guarantee it.

Big LincolnJun 1, 20172 votes

unless you have DD.

good thing I mentioned DD when I was talking about Illaoi, huh

AirKingNeoJun 1, 20172 votes

But this illaoi we're taking about. Illaoi, that shit champion.

Overheal certainly isn't putting her over the edge. Other champions yes, but not her.

Big LincolnJun 1, 20172 votes

illaoi is already very strong from DD buffs

AirKingNeoJun 1, 20172 votes

https://na.op.gg/champion/illaoi/statistics/top

Uhhhhhhhh? What?

EvanThomasJun 2, 20175 votes

You missed the point, so let me make it more clear:

She needs DD to overheal. Therefore, she will not overheal until second or third item. By second or third item, her effectiveness in the game will have already been decided (most of the time). This means that overheal will not break her.

Big LincolnJun 2, 20171 votes

DD is first item post-cleaver nerf except vs tanks who are rushing and stacking armor

and when she buys the item doesn't really matter; broken is broken and I like my champion balanced as she is right now

EvanThomasJun 2, 20171 votes

DD first item? A fully offensive build path (Pickaxe + Caulfield's + Vamp scepter) and 3500g cost? Damn, that's ballsy; I have to disagree with that decision. Illaoi as a juggernaut already has problems with cc, as she can't heal while cc'ed, and making her build a fully AD item first will expose that weakness even more. She needs some unconditional defense in her first item, whether health or resist, in order to help her with that weakness.

Also her base damage is insane, and BC magnifies that by a lot, even after nerfs. You don't need a lot of AD to do damage.

Big LincolnJun 2, 20174 votes

as a plat 2 illaoi main, and I know a couple much higher rank Illaoi mains will swear by DD rush, I feel comfortable telling you that it's her best first item vs the majority of top lane match ups. her base damage is pretty ass; Illaoi runs off of AD ratios and the added sustain + 80 AD + the DD damage-to-dot makes her extremely powerful and hard for most duelists to fight

the only time I deviate is vs tanks who stack armor and also do a lot of damage while going tank, and vs hard lanes like Swain or Teemo where I'll take a hybrid item like hexdrinker first because of ranged harass and dots

AgentBlackJun 1, 20175 votes

Uh, an extra 10% health is not going to save most carries from your average assassin. Even with 30% from Overheal and Bloodthirster, I have more than enough damage as, say, Talon or Ekko to kill any carry without a defensive steroid.

NaturesMayhemJun 1, 20176 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wGp9d8KEU&t=0s Look at #4 at 2:38. Doesn't have to save them from an assassin. In the video the Twitch practically heals to full health again from the lifesteal, allowing him to further increase that health pool is retarded. This gives the already insanely powerful ADCs right now another edge on enemies.

Cosmic WarperJun 1, 20174 votes

Just make it not apply to lifesteal. Make it only work on ability and active item healing

Vouloir OublierJun 1, 20173 votes

The plans for these runes aren't concrete lifesteal might not even proc the overheal shield and only heals like nami/sona w will

58697132DEL1Jun 1, 20173 votes

Not really, it only kicks in if you're already full health, otherwise you're relying on the lifesteal already in game, and you're losing a bucnh f the masteries that helped lifesteal spike at all.

Like all it does is add more HP to break through if anything, which sucks but oh well?

6SfoolJun 2, 20173 votes

I like the idea of overhealing. It makes it anti-burst and slightly anti-poke, but does not really affect extended fights between dps champs. What I don't like is an adc getting 40% lifesteal on top of 2000 dps and Lulu's everything.

LauchmelderJun 2, 20174 votes

The counter to ADCs are assassins and burst mages and you think it's a good idea to remove that weakness?

DisulfiramJun 2, 20172 votes

I think he means that it's a good idea to give them tools to mitigate their weakness, but only if these tools do not stack to the point that said weakness is cancelled for almost no cost.

6SfoolJun 2, 20172 votes

It doesn't remove a weakness, it alters it. In order to actually make use of that shield, their support will either be going oom overhealing them, they will be pushing hard by constantly attacking, or they are stacking lifesteal anyway, in which case they have Bloodthirster already. The issue is not that a ~200 health shield is making it so that burst champs have to deal with their draintanking, their issue is draintanking in the first place, which is bad design for a squishy and should be reserved for juggernauts and a few health-based champs.

PennsJun 1, 20172 votes

why give them a shield to mitigate burst thats supposed to counter them

Yasuo hehe xd

Doesnt seem too bad to me tbh, other.. runes or whatever theyre called are probably gonna be as strong or even stronger.

Big LincolnJun 1, 20179 votes

this isn't even a keystone rune though, lul

so on top of this they could get that "berserk" keystone with the shitload of extra atk speed that ignores the cap

Critmaster GarenJun 2, 20172 votes

it depends how the new mastery/rune system is going to work.

certain runes like the overheal rune might be linked to a specific mastery tree. meddler said at one point, that their goal is set at 5 mastery trees overall.

if the overheal rune is gated behind a mastery tree for fighters or tanks, it wouldnt be very accessable to carries, and more used by tanks and juggs like in cases of item 3083 regeneration to build up a shield while out of combat, or general fighter sustain like Aatrox . these champions are already balanced around being burst resistant, and it would only equate to a bit more health on them.

i absolutely agree that the anti-burst mechanics for adc are already excessive and they should definitely not have access to this. item passives like item 3046 item 3026 item 3072 item 3812 shouldnt be available to them on major offensive items like they are.

theyre paying shit for the extra protection. being burst resistant as a marksman used to be a tradeoff. now its just tacked onto their core damage items.

Critmaster GarenJun 2, 20172 votes

Essence Thief Gain 1 permanent max health when enemy minions die near you. Range: 1400 units

im absolutely in love with this rune. however please make sure that adc and assassins dont get their hands on this either.

ThilmerJun 2, 20172 votes

I have been complained about "Lifesteal" for years; is the most unbalanced stat in the game.

Meanwhile, "spellvamp" was removed from ítems because "it could be broken in Vladimir and Fiddlesticks". Apparently the possibility of 2 out of 140 champions been broken is a good reason to remove a stat from the game completely. Go figure.