Easy way to balance Nidalee

ExternalLink·Apr 26, 2017·4 votes·723 views

Revert her Patch 5.2 change, and every change to her since then. Simple as shit. "Nidalee can now hunt Jungle monsters" This change led to her becoming problematic, and resulted in two of her roles being killed off in the process of Riot (trying) addressing Jungle Nidalee. Before this change Nidalee sported a decent win rate in all three roles. (just under 50%), immediately following her win rate in every roll rocketed, and eventually she became a busted high elo Jungle goddess that was, after an extremely long string of nerfs, eventually put down into the dirt.

All of this could however, simply be resolved by Riot accepting that they were wrong, and reverting this retarded change that was supposedly meant to 'open up more interesting gameplay options' for her....Ya, right.

18 Comments

DaNinadApr 26, 20171 votes

I don't really find her imbalanced, just hard to play

ExternalLinkApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't really find her imbalanced, just hard to play

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? She's either pick/ban or sub 45% win rate.

DracocrashApr 26, 20171 votes

except shes at a 48.6% winrate right now...

ExternalLinkApr 26, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Wizfact EUW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkIj2zeX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-26T00:36:14.732+0000)

except shes at a 48.6% winrate right now...

In Plat+ above with an extremely low picrate. Overall she's sub 45%. Bruiser Top Nid and Midalee were both killed off, for no real reason at all. She's been shoe-horned into Jungle, and repeatedly nerfed so that she's now sub-par at even that. Can you not understand that there's something wrong? If not, then what planet are you living on?

dakota saturnApr 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

In Plat+ above with an extremely low picrate. Overall she's sub 45%. Bruiser Top Nid and Midalee were both killed off, for no real reason at all. She's been shoe-horned into Jungle, and repeatedly nerfed so that she's now sub-par at even that. Can you not understand that there's something wrong? If not, then what planet are you living on?

Hey guys I'm just gonna ignore easily verifiable evidence that multiple have brought forth, while covering my ears and singing "LA LA LA LA~" and not pay attention to any of it.

I KNOW IM RIGHT GUYS STOP PROVING ME WRONG AND LISTEN!!!!!!!11

https://s22.postimg.org/84rekvcch/bgti_Rmt.jpg

ExternalLinkApr 26, 20171 votes

[deleted]

dakota saturnApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Personal attacks when you don't even know me do nothing but make you look foolish.

This thread is a waste of everyone's time, including your own. Bye!

https://s22.postimg.org/84rekvcch/bgti_Rmt.jpg

ExternalLinkApr 26, 20171 votes

[deleted]

dakota saturnApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ad Hominem's are an effective and easy way of dealing with idiots, after all, there is no real discussion to be had with them. Point in case? You've contributed nothing to this thread outside of E-Tier memeing. Here, let me prove it, again:

'This thread is a waste of everyone's time' This is a very broad, sweeping statement, and I'd like to know on what it is based upon? Where's your argument? Where's your proof? How exactly is this thread a 'waste of time', and who are you exactly, to determine it to be so quickly, when you haven't said a single worthwhile thing? Well, son?

Waits for an ignorant and retarded response.

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply, since you either won't read it, or will just looks for reasons to spam personal attacks (And get your post deleted with a warning again :P). Also if you are already prefacing that you're not going to read the reply (by calling it ignorant and retarded before the person even has written it), you're not going to make a lot of friends.

But, if you want to have an actual discussion, then you need to acknowledge when someone provides proof of an argument, and not just shove your head in the sand and ignore it.

Lolalytics and such put Nid's winrate at 48%+. If you want to throw a tantrum and argue that this is irrelevant data because it doesn't include matches from low elo, then you don't really have a point. Nid is a high skillcap champion, and like most champions, isn't played nearly to her full potential until the player is somewhat skilled in the game. If you want to play Tryn, Yi, or other such right clickers, who have a pretty even win% curve across all elo, that's one thing.

But you can't argue about the health of a high skillcap champion, and then ignore the stats of people who actually HAVE a high skill level in the game, and call the data irrelevant.

And that is way too much time spent on a reply that you won't read / will call retarded, hence why I said this thread is a waste of time.

Good bye!

https://s22.postimg.org/84rekvcch/bgti_Rmt.jpg

SwiftKitten88Apr 26, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkIj2zeX,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-26T22:05:48.526+0000)

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply, since you either won't read it, or will just looks for reasons to spam personal attacks (And get your post deleted with a warning again :P). Also if you are already prefacing that you're not going to read the reply (by calling it ignorant and retarded before the person even has written it), you're not going to make a lot of friends.

But, if you want to have an actual discussion, then you need to acknowledge when someone provides proof of an argument, and not just shove your head in the sand and ignore it.

Lolalytics and such put Nid's winrate at 48%+. If you want to throw a tantrum and argue that this is irrelevant data because it doesn't include matches from low elo, then you don't really have a point. Nid is a high skillcap champion, and like most champions, isn't played nearly to her full potential until the player is somewhat skilled in the game. If you want to play Tryn, Yi, or other such right clickers, who have a pretty even win% curve across all elo, that's one thing.

But you can't argue about the health of a high skillcap champion, and then ignore the stats of people who actually HAVE a high skill level in the game, and call the data irrelevant.

And that is way too much time spent on a reply that you won't read / will call retarded, hence why I said this thread is a waste of time.

Good bye!

https://s22.postimg.org/84rekvcch/bgti_Rmt.jpg

you know what? for someone who is telling other people "to stop calling data irreverent" your are ignoring 92% of the Nidalee statistics which is everything below plat.

if nidalee has a 48% win rate in EVERY elo it would be "ok"

the ISSUE with her is that nidalee is currently being balanced as if her spear is point and click like Nunu 's ice ball and NOT as if her spear is one of the hardest fucking skillshots in the game to land..

she will ALWAYS be good in competitive unless she is complete trash BECAUSE of this.

because in competitive you have a team of 5 ov the best players in the world playing at 8 ms ping with voice chat and they make a team comp around nidalee so that the instant she gets within spear range the enemy gets CCed.

that DOESN'T HAPPEN in non-pro play you cant "balance" her until the assumption that the spear is going to land every time.

nidalee has ZERO form of CC, neither soft or hard cc. and the better your TEAMMATES are at CCing the enemy when u come to gank.. the better your team will do the the higher nidalee's winrate will go.

if you ONLY look at plat+ you are ignoring the fact that she cant do SHIT in low elos because she REQUIRES her teammates to set up her gank properly.. i mean sure u can land spears without having the enemy CCed. but if they ARE CC'ed then your gank is going to end up a hell of a lot better.

if nidalee MISSES the spear her gank did NOTHING. ZERO damage.. and unless they used a summoners to DODGE the spear you accomplished absolutely nothing... by the time the spear misses the enemy will be safe under tower and behind minions. and with the (effective) removal of nidalee's pounce reset until lvl 16 you can't tower dive

any other jungler in the game will at least done damage or forced a summoner on a halfway decent but failed gank...

if nidalee's spear misses she did NOTHING.

we are not arguing that her 48% win rate in plat + is irrelevant... in fact its HIGHLY relevant

what YOU are ignoring is that it BARELY climbed to 48% in plat + while being complete trash in every elo below it.

even in plat + she has the 2nd lowest win rate of ANY jungle champ.. if that the BEST she can GET. why the fuck would anyone pick her... EVERY other jungle in the game except Rengar is more viable than her. in plat + and if you even go down to gold she is the 5th lowest winrate champion in the game

by silver she has a 42% win rate in third place

by bronze she has a sub 40% win rate... still 3rd... but at that point i don't think the order really matters...

so what don't you take your own advise and stop IGNORING DATA.

i have over 1000 games as nidalee over 5 seasons playing her as my main... i have the 38th most nidalee mastery in NA and its easier to climb on a champ like Warwick what i have played maybe? 30 times? half of them co-op... than it is to climb on nidalee. in fact i can climb as SUPPORT easier than i can climb as her... DESPITE the fact. in the past 3 years i have probably met 2 people in my games who player nidalee on an equal or better level than me. (picking her half the time kinda screws the result. but if half the time i don't play nidalee all i would need to do is double the amount of games to get the same data).

as for the original post

i have suggested this myself on multiple occasions. however there ARE some good changes i would keep

i would keep traps stealthed but target-able with the 3 hp i would keep the 7.2 change to allow hunted to grant true vision (like traps did pre-rework)

other than the spear damage i would keep the 6.15 changes

and i would keep the 6.9 changes

ExternalLinkApr 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=dakota saturn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkIj2zeX,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-26T22:05:48.526+0000)

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply, since you either won't read it, or will just looks for reasons to spam personal attacks (And get your post deleted with a warning again :P). Also if you are already prefacing that you're not going to read the reply (by calling it ignorant and retarded before the person even has written it), you're not going to make a lot of friends.

But, if you want to have an actual discussion, then you need to acknowledge when someone provides proof of an argument, and not just shove your head in the sand and ignore it.

Lolalytics and such put Nid's winrate at 48%+. If you want to throw a tantrum and argue that this is irrelevant data because it doesn't include matches from low elo, then you don't really have a point. Nid is a high skillcap champion, and like most champions, isn't played nearly to her full potential until the player is somewhat skilled in the game. If you want to play Tryn, Yi, or other such right clickers, who have a pretty even win% curve across all elo, that's one thing.

But you can't argue about the health of a high skillcap champion, and then ignore the stats of people who actually HAVE a high skill level in the game, and call the data irrelevant.

And that is way too much time spent on a reply that you won't read / will call retarded, hence why I said this thread is a waste of time.

Good bye!

https://s22.postimg.org/84rekvcch/bgti_Rmt.jpg

Your argument is flawed; you argue that because she is high skill capped, she should not function well in low elo and as a result, her low elo win rates should be ignored. Except that in the elos she should thrive in, high elo, she still boasts a sub-par winrate despite currently having an extremely low player base. (In comparison to another high skill cap champion - Lee Sin, who has a 50%+ win rate despite having an extremely high win rate, and still functions decently in low elo despite his high skill ceiling.) You've also disregarded the fact that her Mid and Top win rates and play-rates are so low that most sites do not list them - which is largely what this thread is about.

You focus on High Elo and Jungle Nidalee - because as you've just admitted, Nidalee is too difficult for too little pay-off to warrant playing in low elo, yet in High Elo she's sub-par and rarely picked; but really what I'm talking about is Nidalee in general. Topalee and Midalee were killed off for no reason, all because of one dumb change that Riot made that was - as stated in the preface of this thread, made for absolutely no reason and absolutely broke her in the jungle.

See, if you look at the title of the thread with the eyes of a normal, non-handicapped person, you'll see that it is entitled; Easy way to Balance Nidalee. Not how to Balance Jungle Nidalee. But Nidalee in general, since there's no reason that a champion as versatile and intriguing as Nidalee should be shoe-horned into a single role, one wherein she's either busted or sub-par.

Also, if you and the mod who's checking my posts can't understand the difference between calling something ignorant and retarded, and calling someone ignorant and retarded, then jesus, boards is a hell of a lot dumber than I thought.

Now come, B tier troll, lets see what garbage you spew this time.

DracocrashApr 26, 20171 votes

I read your comment, and for 20 seconds I was on the ground laughing my ass off. My roomate panicked and thought i was dying or something.

DracocrashApr 26, 20172 votes

I can see your point of view, but now jungle is just nidalee's main role. Just like zyra is getting balanced around support (despite being originally, a mid laner) the same is happening to nidalee.

And we can't expect a high skill champ to have a high winrate in lower elo's.

I would be up for buffs to her laning, that in no way buffs her jungle.

ExternalLinkApr 26, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Wizfact EUW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkIj2zeX,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-04-26T01:12:47.060+0000)

I can see your point of view, but now jungle is just nidalee's main role. Just like zyra is getting balanced around support (despite being originally, a mid laner) the same is happening to nidalee.

And we can't expect a high skill champ to have a high winrate in lower elo's.

I would be up for buffs to her laning, that in no way buffs her jungle.

Zyra is a bad example, balancing her around both of these roles is hard. People chose to take her bot, then she was balanced around it.

Shyvana might have been a somewhat better example, as she spent a long time as a Top champion, and was eventually pigeonholed into the Jungle role.

But Nidalee is still a different case. Riot took a champion that was already successful in three roles, and for some reason, added a passive that made her ridiculously successful in a single role. This called for nerfs, so many that she is now successful in only one role.

Can you really not see the difference? Before patch 5.2 Nidalee could Jungle, Top, and Mid, and sported decent win rates in all three of these roles. Now she can only Jungle, and sports a lower win rate in this role that she did prior to the patch 5.2 change.

Instead of reverting a dumb change, Riot has chosen to; Make the champion clunky, remove mechanics, minimise attack options and continuously nerf every single one of her abilities. Literally, every one - Damage and CDs.

WindLord7070Apr 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Wizfact EUW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MkIj2zeX,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-04-26T01:12:47.060+0000)

I can see your point of view, but now jungle is just nidalee's main role. Just like zyra is getting balanced around support (despite being originally, a mid laner) the same is happening to nidalee.

And we can't expect a high skill champ to have a high winrate in lower elo's.

I would be up for buffs to her laning, that in no way buffs her jungle.

This is what was said in the op. Nidalee was already an alright jungler before she got the buff to have her passive work on monsters alot of nidalee mains at the time were scared she'd become busted because of them and she did. They should revert her back and then balance jungle nidalee around that and if she needs nerfs they need to do things like reducing her damage vs jungle monsters instead of hurting lane nidalee who was already not the greatest in the first place. She was viable she was not first pick first ban and she wasn't so terrible in lane that she was a risk to your team.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoApr 26, 20171 votes

who bans nid? and why?

LMAO are you serious right now ?

Nidalee Champion Ban Rate Ranking 46th (0.62%)

with a pick rate of 5.58%

DaNinadApr 26, 20171 votes

48% win rate currently

ExternalLinkApr 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

48% win rate currently

Platinum and above. Overall she's sub 45%... But really, what's the point in anything you're posting? None of it is constructive or progresses the thread in anyway.