yet it's on a higher cooldown than shit like orianna and lee ults?
if there isn't a single champ i'm allowed to fight without ult late game it needs to be on a lower cooldown so i can contribute more often
Jesuszilla12 votesI think it's perfectly fine. You are correct that illaoi is very ultimate reliant, and that's the entire point of her kit. illaoi is a strong area control champion, like Heimerdinger in a way, in that she sets up in a certain area and is most powerful there, but is weaker when pulled away from her setup. This is her counterplay. Her ultimate is obscenely strong for what it does and essentially allows Illaoi to bring an entire setup with her to a teamfight right away AND gives her an incredible boost in strength on top of that.
Her ultimate needs to STAY on a longer cooldown because that's her window of counterplay, and this is coming from someone that very much enjoys playing Illaoi and wants the champion to be a good pick. Her weaknesses in other areas could be addressed but the cooldown of the ultimate is certainly not one.
Big Lincoln4 votesHer ultimate needs to STAY on a longer cooldown because that's her window of counterplay,
there is never a point in time where illaoi does not have counterplay. Avoidable skillshots, an slow, interruptible jump, and high telegraphs on every skill
"allows Illaoi to bring an entire setup with her" yeah, if she sets up the the ult. lol, it's not like she gets a free pass; in the majority of games in THIS current meta you will need flash up to R->Flash for a good ult setup and you'll need it even more so you can actually hit the people you want to burst down. Illaoi needs to do a LOT of things correctly to actually shit-stomp competent opponents, far more than I would say most champions do when many of those champs can do the same job with added strengths like actual CC and mobility.
and this is coming from someone that very much enjoys playing Illaoi and wants the champion to be a good pick
where are your games on her then?
Aimléss1 votesYeah it's true that she has counterplay all around her kit, but so does practically every other champion that has a very powerful niche. Like 
has the greatest range in the game, so in return he has Telegraphed Q, and dodgeable skill shots. Illaoi can literally make an aoe zone around her that melts even the tankiest tanks in seconds, in return, she needs telegraphed abilities for when her ult is on cooldown.
LordGeovanni1 votes Q is telegraphed in the same way 
q is telegraphed but not like 
. q can be cast instantly for a good range though not as good as full charge but the charge doesnt take long anyway and fireing is near instant far faster than q to travel once cast it can be along cast but it doesnt have to be at all
FurriesAreHot1 votesAhri's isn't telegraphed. It's just a skill shot
LordGeovanni1 votesmy point exactly
Aimléss1 votesYou just said that his Q can be cast instantly with a great decrease in range, much lower than ahri's Q, and it still isn't totally instant. Regardless, my point was that his Q is telegraphed to make up for its max range, how does his Q get max range? Oh, it has to be fully charged, which makes it telegraphed. When he isn't using max range, sure it casts pretty fast, but he isn't using his max range so why does he need a tradeoff in that situation?
LordGeovanni1 votesNo not much lower than arhi's q about 25 units off of arhi's q range and only half asecond holding q to pass arhi's q range
Jesuszilla1 votesJust because there are smaller aspects of counterplay sprinkled into all of her abilities doesn't mean that her kit as a whole is somehow weak and needs to be strengthened. Illaoi is INCREDIBLY powerful when she has set up her tentacles. Let's talk about a few of your concerns:
Q - Her q has a short delay and is a skillshot, but against a melee champion it's not going to be difficult to hit, and the width gives you enough to play with it. The purpose of this is mainly in lane harass and some sustain via the tentacle healing.
W - How many champions do you know that are going to be interrupting that w? Pantheon has the same weakness for his stun and he's an absurdly strong pick right now. The window for you to stop Illaoi's w is very low, so you essentially have to already be prepared for it. Maybe stop running face first into Janna's?
Melee champions do tend to have telegraphed skills yes, but you're missing the purpose of Illaoi's kit. She's not meant to chase down and assassinate the team. You don't complain that Heimerdinger is immobile, because his entire kit is designed to take an area of the map and gain complete control of it. Illaoi's strength is that she can completely bully other melee champions out of her area and fortify her defense. She's hard to root out, you can't really fight her until you clear some of her tentacles and she can in turn punish you for doing so. She can make it to where you have no safe place to go to avoid her telegraphed skills, or use them to zone you off resources. If she had access to this ability instantly, often, and whereever she wanted she would be absurdly overpowered.
Illaoi doesn't need to flash in this meta to secure anything... it's a heavy tank meta, which is the perfect feeding ground for her. The current meta is heavily structured with hard engage and jumping in, hitting even two people and completely obliterating the front line can completely swing a fight. Again, YOU ARE NOT AN ASSASSIN. YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO CHASE DOWN THE ADC. Illaoi is a juggernaut, a champion in the same vein as Darius where there's a specific area of influence he has but it's small and he isn't very good at engagements from a distance. You keep complaining that Illaoi's weaknesses exist. I don't think you quite understand why giving champions like Illaoi more reliability is a bad thing.
I don't know if you've paid attention to my recent games, but I main jungle atm. I rarely play top or mid these days, and when I do I tend to pick Renekton, or Jax as I am trying to learn him. I have played plenty of Illaoi games in the past, and even tried her in the jungle, but she's just not as fun in the jungle because she's hard to setup properly for camps because of the random passive. (And as mentioned, she's like a melee Heimerdinger. She wants to control a specific area of the map).
I'm not saying that Illaoi isn't relatively weaker than some of the other Juggernauts right now, but I don't think you understand ANYTHING about her balance at all or why she is designed the way she is.
Kloqdq8 votesIT's a pretty big ultimate so that's the reason for the cooldown. Not saying Ori or Lee are fine with their low cd ults, especially ori but that's the trade off illaoi gets.
Big Lincoln10 votesit's also one of the easiest to play around
Kloqdq10 votesYeah. Illaoi does need a buff. Her lane is great but after people start getting brain cells she becomes a punching bag.
IamHuuVan1 votesI think the range of her W should be increased to grants her more mobility
Muzét5 votesNope. She's a juggernaut she isn't supposed to have mobility. Her W is fine. OP is right if she needs to receive some buffs it should be on her ult cd. Specially for its level 2 and 3. 15 less seconds would be great. (120/105/90 > 120 / 90 / 75)
BoilTheOil1 votesshe needs it reduced early game where she is supposed to be good
Skorch6 votesThe issue isnt her early game. Its how useless she becomes late game. Making someone better at what they are already good at doesnt fix the issue of what shes bad at. And with game time that becomes an issue with "better end pre-20 or we lose the game."
Melledoneus6 votesHer ultimate should also make her E and Q casting times shorter. That way she can truly punish people for fighting her on her own terms.
PaladinNO1 votesThat way she can truly punish people for fighting her on her own terms.
"Fight the enemy where they aren't."
http://i.somethingawful.com/u/Viconia/Animate/linknaviflyswatter.gif
Took me too long to realize what Illaoi exactly means about "being in motion".
http://leaguememe.com/uploads/league/3564032046.jpg
I prefer using the term "evasive", without even considering that actually translates as the same thing. :/
P.S. A not-so-random something: Any particular reason why I cannot post in Miscellaneous?
Clicking the Post-button does nothing. Tried in a couple of different threads. Tested with Chrome too, just to exclude a cache problem. Same thing.
Just making the desired reply here then:
"Melondongidus A memer, a mod, and a friend."
"Melodious Speaking words of wisdom."
Melledoneus1 votesMiscellaneous was merged, or should I say absorbed, by GD several hours ago.
PaladinNO1 votesSo posting in any of those (old) threads is effectively disabled? Got'cha.
Thank you.
or should I say absorbed
"Speaking words of wisdom."
I knew I was right! ^^
Jacknife2 votesNow see, this is the exact problem I have with Illaoi. If you fight her on her own terms, she's busted. If you fight her in any way other than her terms, she's powerless. It's kinda like the whole "Don't chase Singed" scenario. If you chase him, you're doing exactly what he wants and getting one-sidedly punished. If you don't chase him, you're basically just fucking off elsewhere, while he does the same. There's no interactivity, no outplay potential (unless your champions kit is designed to counter/deal with this scenario), no real FIGHT. Illaoi's ult might as well be a zoning tool, because there's absolutely no reason for the enemy to be in or near it, and any possible scrap of a chance to work around it and get a positive result is reduced to zero.
tl;dr Illaoi ults you! Guess I'll choose my ONLY OPTION AND RUN AWAY.
Melledoneus1 votesIllaoi's interactivity comes from being mobile while fighting her. If you dodge her tentacles she's powerless. She's also all about zone control. If she has a zone set up, you stay away from it or disarm it from afar. Not everyone is supposed to have counterplay that is interactive. Sometimes the counterplay is NOT interacting because Illaoi can't be in one place forever unless her team is already winning.
Illaoi also can't be a team threat as much without her ult. She has to set everytging up perfectly and then you have to make the mistake of trying to fight her during HER window of power. There are also ways to make her ultimate useless, like mobility, CC, or bursting her down insanely fast.
Similarly, unless you're playing Rammus, when Master Yi ults, you don't go up to him and fight him. And even then he's going to catch you.
Big Lincoln1 votesyeah, generally when a champion has a really powerful steroid that you can't deal with, you disengage and come back when it's over. how is this any different from yi, nasus, fiora, darius, trundle, jax except for her being the only one that's not guaranteed?
"not interactive" when you can dodge her E and make her ult worthless, or bait her into ulting and walking/dashing out of it so she can't get more tentacles?
Jacknife1 votes"not interactive" when you can dodge her E and make her ult worthless, or bait her into ulting and walking/dashing out of it so she can't get more tentacles?
Then that just feels shitty for illaoi, doesn't it? If you baited it out of her is one thing, but what can she do when her giant window of power is gone? Close to nothing, or at least nothing meaningful. There is just so much power loaded onto her ult that the rest of her kit just can't compensate when it's down. That seems like a big design flaw similar to old Heimerdinger, who was a turret bot.
yeah, generally when a champion has a really powerful steroid that you can't deal with, you disengage and come back when it's over. how is this any different from yi, nasus, fiora, darius, trundle, jax except for her being the only one that's not guaranteed?
Most of their steroids aren't powerful enough to equate to "If you fight me with this up, you WILL die." The exceptions being Darius, whose window of power is delayed and only gained through an extended fight or ult ks, and maybe Yi (although now you could make an argument for nasus now with the ult buff). Illaoi can just right click (or in a 1v1 case wait for a well timed E and then right click) and BAM tentacles around you. Between the damage, the healing, and the aoe, if you're not dead in the first volley there is absolutely no reason to try anything but run, as it'll equate to nothing. In teamfight scenarios, this is HUGE, as popping this mid-fight basically forces a retreat from the enemy, and allows your team to pick off whoever they want.
And you want this on a shorter cd?
Big Lincoln1 votesthere's more power loaded on her E than her ult
Nasus ult makes him nigh-impossible to duel late game for most champions; you disengage and come back after, or you kite him around with hard CC so his wither doesn't get you killed. Trundle ult decimates any bruiser or tank, so you force a disengage and fight him when you have your tank stats back.
this mid-fight basically forces a retreat from the enemy, and allows your team to pick off whoever they want.
or you CC her and collapse on her if she's ult-flashed into your team to get a good one off.
And you want this on a shorter cd?
yes
Jacknife1 votesthere's more power loaded on her E than her ult
That is a slow skillshot and is easily dodged, unlike her ult.
Nasus ult makes him nigh-impossible to duel late game for most champions
LATE GAME. This expands into Nasus' general counterplay, which is beat him down before he gets big. Illaoi can rip apart anyone she wants right at lvl.6, assuming they're dumb enough to stay in her ult.
Trundle ult decimates any bruiser or tank, so you force a disengage and fight him when you have your tank stats back.
This could be that I just don't play tanks, but never have I fought a trundle with his ult up (even on a correct target) and wasn't able to meaningfully fight back.
or you CC her and collapse on her if she's ult-flashed into your team to get a good one off.
And have the rest of her team free to counterattack, cause you just put all your attention on illaoi. I know I started this scenario here ^, and I apologize, but I think we should stop debating over this part, otherwise we're just going into hypothetical territory that only hyper-nerds with big ego's would continue arguing lol
Big Lincoln1 votesult is worthless without landing E first. landing E gives you potential boosted damage, gives you the free tentacle swings on the spirit after you ult, and gives the vessel debuff so if you gib the spirit you can slow them for a second to get another free hit in. and against stealth champs, the spirit gives you true vision as long as it's alive, so it's the difference between destroying an akali/khazix and getting fucked by them
Illaoi can rip apart anyone she wants right at lvl.6, assuming they're dumb enough to stay in her ult.
this expands into her "general counterplay," which is avoidance and baiting
And have the rest of her team free to counterattack, cause you just put all your attention on illaoi.
you're putting too much faith in the average player. i can say this from experience
Jacknife1 votesult is worthless without landing E first.
But how strong is E in terms of killing potential without her ult? This is what I was talking about. Once her ults down, you get much more room to breathe because her strongest move is gone. Even if she gets you with E, just fight in a way to where you the the spirit clone aren't in the same place and you're golden. Even the true sight on assassins doesn't matter if they can dodge all your stuff and fuck you.
this expands into her "general counterplay," which is avoidance and baiting
You phrased it like a smartass, but touche
Bard to Believe5 votesbecause ori and lee can't potentially 1v5 with their ults unless they make some god-tier outplays and take advantage of mistakes perfectly.
illaoi's ult literally makes her an unkillable god if there's 2 or more people caught in it because of how much damage those tentacle smashes do, and the fact that they can be reset by her w.
HORRIBLE comparison
Big Lincoln3 votesIllaoi can't 1v5 unless the enemy plays horribly or has all their CC on cooldown. she can 1v2 or 1v3 if she's up against low CC champions like bruisers and marksmen, but anyone who can CC her for their teammates can ruin her
3TWarrior2 votesactually, if she gets to build enough tank, she can burn through several crowd controls and wail on an enemy or two but it varies by positioning of all players involved
if she hits one opponent with her E and then hits the spirit and the opponent with her ultimate, she is adequately setup to tank some serious opposition and if she gets more than that the best strategy is to run
I'm surprised she isn't used more often as solo bouts are actually some of her least effective matchups whereas she does much better when she can throw a beat down on the opponent for not paying attention to her in a team fight
take for example baron pit or dragon pit. The general close-quarters of the combat will let her wreck anything in sight or out of sight if the opposing spirit gets destroyed
LordGeovanni1 votesexcept bruisers dont want to be super tanky and lose all their damage. that has been the meta but i think that its a toxic meta/
3TWarrior2 votesExcept that Illaoi has some of the highest damage potential in the game after level 6 even without damage items
usually the only bruiser items she needs are 
and 
, though it has been a while since I played to know their build order
Timethief494 votes
?
AirKingNeo4 votesHis ult equals a kill mostly. Illaoi just gets dodged out.
GGLineaR4 votesIf they buff her late, they need to nerf her early.
There's a REASON she falls off.
Big Lincoln4 votesher early is massively overrated and there are a very big number of champions who make her useless from level 1
Illaoi doesn't become a lane bully until level 6 against competent opponents
Wînter Fox3 votesHer ult is cancer it should have the same CD as Teleport
BoilTheOil3 votesbet you think yasuo's ulti should too
AirKingNeo2 votesI'd rather it had a normal ult cooldown.
abca984 votesI would be happy just by giving it the normal cd of an average ult.
Salson3 votesThis sounds insane but... What if her tentacles gained speed ( some 5% ) every time she levels her ult?
Big Lincoln2 votesI suggested this before, downboated and no replies
Poske3 votesActually faster ability animations per ulti rank might give ilaoi some spotlight
Completly agree with suggestion
If she ends up over bearing mini nerf to E
Automated Riven1 votesThis is good but I would rather just have her e buffed in a manner that you can actually land it. It's has to be the least impactful ability of it's kind while also being one of the most telegraphed and difficult to land. (barring thresh hook I guess).
AFilthyCaitMain3 votesIllaoi honestly just has too much counterplay rn. She needs less windows of counterplay to actually be viable higher up. You literally walk or flash out of her ult and shes garbage for the next minute or so.
Shaving cooldown time off of her ultimate is one way to maybe solve this problem. On the other hand, Illaoi could maybe use more than a number buff.
I think putting a bit more power into the rest of her kit and/or making her ult even better could be a good idea.
The problem right now is that she just has NO teamfight presence if she doesnt have her ult and flash up, even then, a competent team will fk her over.
She needs more teamfight presence other than just her ult. Late late game shes just useless because her damage falls off a bit and she can get blown up.
Illaoi needs some serious rethinking from a power budget perspective. This power budget she has now is whats keeping her from being viable higher up. Mini rework on her abilities please?
Anyways that was my 2 cents!
